To me, this made no sense whatsoever. She was not prepared. She had a lot of emotional problems, and her mother thought it would just fine to drop her off and leave her at a strange place?
Sorry, I just don't get it. What was this woman thinking?
I am glad that things turned out, but you just don't dump an autistic person at a strange school and then go home.
Just my opinion.
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I don't think I have ever enjoyed a movie more. It was an experience. I admire Ms. Grandin more than ever.
One thing she wasn't was LAZY!!!
God Bless Her.
There were so many good scenes in this movie. But when she stood up, and all the parents looked at her dying to ask her questions, and she walked up to the front and (in her mind, went in a door), well that blew me away.
Excellent well done movie. It should have been in the theaters.
I finally saw this movie last night. It was wonderful!
Anyway, my son has Aspergers and we more or less dropped him off at college. But first, we met with Disability Services and also made sure he was familiar with the campus. It worked out fine. So I would assume Temple and her mother did the same thing before she moved in.
My son went to college, made the dean's list, did FANTASTIC in college, graduated (on a full scholarship).
Then got on a plane when he was 20, and we never saw him again. He has been an online gamer for almost 9 years. That's all he does. He lives in another state. He is on SSI and has adamantly told anyone that cares to listen "I will not work, I don't want to work, and I'll never work", "I mean, why should I? I have all my needs met" And indeed he does. He has an apartment, a computer, a tv, a dsl line, cable, EVERYTHING HE NEEDS. He is also a compulsive gambler having lost and won thousands of dollars.
Over 7 years ago, when he left home and began gambling and lost this apartment and that apartment (and if you are wondering where he got the money to move away, he came into his lawsuit money from an injury when he was 14, and he received this money at the age of 18. Nothing we could do. It was out of our hands.
So he moved away, got roomates, began gambling, and he was evaluated and ONE doctor, just ONE, said "I know what you have, you have ASPERGERS disorder"
That got him SSI. He has never looked back since, never came home, we have absolutely no relationship and I've researched Aspergers for the past 8 years.
I do not believe whatsoever that he has Aspergers.
He is a GAMER, plain and simple. He is addicted to Second Life, which he plays day and night. We used to communicate but I cannot deal with a son who just walked away from his family and gambles and says "you are no longer a priority of mine".
Too many kids are being diagnosed with Aspergers. Too many. I read an article where some of these kids are now being recognized as having severe gaming addictions. I went to OLGANON.ORG and I learned all about gaming addiction, Addictions to Second Life, WOW, etc.
I'm not saying that this applies to your son. But everytime I see someone who has been given the Aspergers Diagnosis, I wonder.
I have been in a support group where there were 50 men of ALL ages, and all of them had been diagnosed with Aspergers.
Some of them were clearly autistic, and some just acted like they had this chip on their shoulders.
Someone should get a handle on all this online gaming. It's ruining our young people.
Wow. Just wow. I am almost speechless. All I did was state that it wasn't out of the realm of possibility that Temple Grandin's mother just dropped her off at college on move-in day because they had already met with college officials.
First of all, my son was diagnosed with AS when he was in the third grade--AFTER being evaluated by the school and many doctors. He graduated from high school fifth in his class. He has made the dean's list all four semesters of college. He'll be a junior in the fall. He is majoring in political science, is on the student senate, was a delegate at our state's Democratic convention last spring. He is very smart, but he is very backwards socially, completely disorganized, misplaces things all the time, and can only drive short distances in light traffic.
My son really has Aspergers. He has accomplished much more than we ever imagined, but he will forever be hindered by his AS. He does not have a chip on his shoulder.
I agree about online gaming, but that has nothing to do with my son or most of the others who have been diagnosed with AS.
Your son is completely different than my son. How fortunate that you have him in your life. And he drives?? That's great. As far as being backwards socially, many of them just need more time to grow up.
I will never forget that Asperger Support group meeting that I attended many years ago. I really believe that not all of those young men had aspergers. Too many differences for just one diagnosis. All of them were college graduates, brilliant, all went on to get Masters Degrees, but none of them could function on their own. They either lived at home or needed some kind of person to be responsible for them. There was one guy, Clarence (I'll never forget him). He was about 50, he was a screen writer, but he could not clean his apartment. He stood up and said "Can someone please help me clean my apartment, I am very disorganized and I don't know what to do".
I got him alone after the meeting and I said "Clarence honey, I'll help you learn how to clean your apartment, how many rooms do you have?" and he said "I have 3 rooms". And I said "well one day you do 1 room, and the next day you move on to the next room, and then on day 3, you will have 3 nice clean rooms".
His response? "Oh no, I could never do that, that would take me one month".
I'll never forget this. He was a very sweet but a very youngish kind of 50 year old man. He worked out of his apartment, made money, but could not socialize. The man who ran the meeting was absolutely perfectly normal in looks and ability. He ran the meeting just fine. He as about 37 years old and he had a young son with AS. I remember going up to him and saying "YOU HAVE ASPERGERS?" Really??
And he laughed and said "I know, doesn't seem possible right?" and I said 'why do you think you have Aspergers? and he explained and then he said "it took YEARS of therapy".
But he works, and he has a son. So sometimes it all works out.
Then, at this same meeting, there was this guy who sat on his haunches. By this I mean, he stood up on the chair, and squatted. He sat that way all during the meeting. He also stimmed. The most oddest behavior I have ever seen, but when he opened his mouth, he was perfectly normal. No other eccentricities.
The young guy in front of me was CLEARLY autistic, and completely unlike anyone else at the meeting.
But the young man I will NEVER forget is the 24 year old guy who burst into the meeting room, very sarcastic and said "Okay, let's get this over with, I have Aspergers and Tourettes". He was ordered to shut up and sit down.
He was brilliant, quite eloquent, had a know-it-all attitude, and wouldn't take any direction. He seemed to have all the answers.
So how can all these people be SO different and ALL have the same diagnosis?
In my humble opinion, this is not possible. They are giving out this diagnosis all over the place without making more testing available.
You know your son, so you know what I mean.
And your son was evaluated very early. He was very fortunate. The guys at the meeting, well some of them got the diagnosis after the age of 40 (which I hear is most common).
Oh well.
Just know I wish you and your son well. I really do.
Thank you, eliz. I haven't had much interaction with other people with AS, or even other people who have children with AS. I live in a small town, and my son was the first child with AS anyone at his school had ever encountered. I heard that another child a few years younger than mine was eventually diagnosed with AS also. But he was very different from my son. He didn't learn to talk until he was almost in Kindergarten-my son talked before he was two. This other boy was pretty good at sports-my son is uncoordinated.
I have read this: "If you have met one person with Aspergers, you have met one person with Apergers." For one diagnosis, there are a multitude of symptoms and no one has all of them. So I suppose all of those people you mentioned could possibly truly have AS.
Having said that, I am suspicious of adults who suddenly get that diagnosis. A lot of the time, I think they grab onto it because it makes them feel better.
Anyway, thanks again.
Oh, and one other thing. My son can't clean his room or dorm room. He just doesn't know where to start. When he checked out of the dorm at the end of this semester, we (and by we, I mean me) spent two hours cleaning the room. His room at home is the same way. We clean it up and a week later, it is totally out of control again. I tell him to put things always in the same place, but inevitably, we are searching for his wallet, glasses or whatever. It's very frustrating.
Hi.
I hope you are having a better day. Unfortunately, my head is coming off of my shoulders because my son sent me this inappropriate video, and we've been corresponding via email and my husband had to literally email him and tell him to cease contact. I can't take it anymore. He is absolutely toxic to my health.
Now as far as your son not cleaning his room. Sounds like Clarence, the guy I met at the Aspergers support group meeting. He looked perfectly fine, he was neat and clean, but he didn't know how to clean his room either. He looked clueless.
I can't understand this mind set but what the heck do I know. Many men don't care if they live in a clean house or not. And these men DO NOT HAVE AS. They just drop their clothes in one place, and the next day, pick them up and wear them.
These guys wouldn't know how to clean a toilet if their life depended on it. Have you ever seen a movie in which all the frat brothers live in the dorm? And no one cleans. These guys booze it up all weekend, go to school during the week, and drop everything in a pile on the floor, and never make the bed.
These guys DON'T HAVE AS. They are just guys.
I really think the average guy couldn't care less about how to clean a house. I really think this way. The only guy I met who is a nit picking, house cleaning freak, is my friend's husband and he's a nasty piece of work. She just divorced him after 31 years of marriage, over his controlling ways. He had to do the cooking, the cleaning, the windows, (and don't think he's gay, because he's not), he just thinks that he can clean BETTER than anyone else. He is VERY controlling. She just divorced him last week, and he's terrorizing her. I have NEVER met a man who washes window and cleans like a maniac like him. He is the CLEANEST man with the CLEANEST house I have ever met.
So I wouldn't worry too much about your son. If he thinks the place is dirty enough and he gets tired enough, he'll pick up a broom and clean it.
Or he'll find a nice young woman (does he date?) and she'll be the one who takes care of him.
Many AS guys decide to marry, and they find women who want to mother them. They need this kind of relationship. Many (and I mean MANY), of the silicon valley computer nerds, the researchers in labs, the not very social inventors (the guys who stay alone and all they do is look into microscopes), well these guys have NO social skills whatsoever and are CLEARLY aspies. They work, their wives clean and raise the kids.
They say Einstein was Aspie. As is Bill Gates. I read where Bill Gates was giving a lecture and on the lectern in front of him, (someone noticed this), all the notes were in visuals). Seems that many aspies need to see images to get them on the right road. And they all have handlers, people who get them where they need to be.
Because their minds only work one way, they think, they invent, they develop, etc. They have no mind set for social accuracies, or social interaction. It doesn't occur to them.
I will never forget (while watching the actual Temple Grandin being interviewed), when the person interviewing her asked her "Do you read movie magazines about the relationships of the movie stars?" and she looked at the person as if they were out of their mind and she said something to the effect like: 'I have absolutely no interest in that stuff at all"
I had to laugh. Because her whole thought process was about inventions, and about making life more bearable for the cattle.
She is truly a genius who has LEARNED how to interact.
I have watched her presentations on youtube.
Fascinating!!!
Take care
I am a mild Aspie. When I first went to kindergarten I remember running up to the classroom and saying "Bye!" to my mom. No idea that she was feeling anxious about me or anything cuz I just wanted to go learn stuff. After class I asked her "Why were all the other kids crying? They couldn't be away from their moms? They're such babies!"
That was all fine for me but I put off college cuz I didn't wanna be away from home. And I lived with my folks until I was 26. I'm not really sure what changed in me...
Now I've moved clear across the world though and have no problem being away from people again.
I find the term "mild aspie", absolutely fascinating. Aspergers has impacted my life because of someone I'm related to. I won't go into it here, toooooo personal, toooo painful.
But the fact that you have made a successful transition in your life, well, it's a beautiful thing.
I most certainly wish you well.
And this from a total stranger.
lol
Thank you!
I'm sorry to hear the person with AS in your life caused you pain :( If it was a guy, AS affects men differently from women I think. So in men it is more pronounced.
There are actually lots of female Aspies out there who don't even know they have it! I never considered it for myself because I didn't have any learning problems growing up (except for in math). But I always wondered why everyone thought I was weird, why I couldn't seem to connect with people, why I can't drive etc.
Hi, Have you ever gone to an Asperger support group meeting? I myself, went to one, about 8 years ago. Most fascinating thing I have ever experienced. There were 50 men and 2 women. 2 WOMEN!!!!
The men were all various kinds of aspies. Some were very autistic, and some were actually quite regular people. But what made them stand out was their stimming, and the way they sat on the chairs.
I had a very interesting conversation with a brilliant aspie who, while attending the meeting, sat on his hauches ON TOP of the chair (think squatting on a chair), and that's how he sat for the whole meeting.
One guy raised his hand and said "How do I clean my apartment?" This was a writer who was about 50 years old, very sweet but didn't know the first thing about how to clean his 3 room apartment. I took him aside and said: "Sweetie, here's what you do, on one day, you tackle one room, and on the second day, you do the second room, and on the 3rd day you do the 3rd room and BAM, you've cleaned your apartment".
He looked at me like I was bonkers and said "What do you mean, that would take me 3 months". I looked at him
I never understood the way those guys thought but they were ALL college graduates, ALL on anti-depressants, and ALL on anti-anxiety meds.
ALL OF THEM.
AND THEY ALL HAD THE DIAGNOSIS OF ASPERGERS.
Now how on earth can 50 men, SO DIFFERENT FROM EACH OTHER, and some even were HIGHLY autistic, well how can all of them have the same diagnosis. I know it's a spectrum disorder, but I've done a LOT OF research in all these years, and honestly, some of the people who have been diagnosed with Aspergers, actually have what I call Peter Pan Syndrome. They just don't want to grow up, get a job, be productive.
Not to take anything away from a person who actually has this disorder, but they say Bill Gates has it and Einstein has it. Didn't hurt them.
And I read where hundreds of thousands of online gamers who have been given the diagnosis of Aspergers, well, now they think they just have a severe gamine addiction and not actually aspergers. Because of the lack of sociability, these young men (always young men by the way), well they NEVER get off the computer. They live in virtual reality worlds (like Second Life), and they also do role playing games. It's highly addictive, these internet sites.
It's just easier to stay home, go on the computer, live in fantasy, then to face the challenges of the real world. And these online gamers expect their families to support them financially and keep a roof over their heads.
You have no idea how many people I know that have their kids living in their basements, not paying rent, but all they do is go on the computer. 24/7.
Very scare stuff.
We didn't have this 30 years ago. We graduated high school and either went to college, or got a job.
Not so today.
And with the advancement of technology it's only going to get worse.
Computers have their purpose, they can be used for the greater good.
But to stay on a computer and not come up for air EVER@!!!
That to me, is an addiction.
Just my humble opinion.
You take care, and you never know, you just might drive someday.
Stay well
lol
P.S. And don't beat yourself up anymore about not connecting with people. You are connecting just fine. lol
Wow, that support group sounds so interesting! I'm surprised that 1 guy couldn't seem to be able to take care of his house. I have a bit of OCD myself so I keep everything neat. I can clean my room fine.
My mother actually works with autistic kids and she believes ASD is being overdiagnosed/misdiagnosed nowadays. Which is not to say it's not real. The kind of people you describe- the gamers and such- they most likely have a social anxiety disorder. I think many health professionals just don't have clear knowledge of what ASD is.
Well, I can make acquaintance friends fine, but I have a real problem feeling close to people. I've never been in a relationship and I can't imagine having to share my personal space with someone. I only have about 3 close friends and, sometimes, I still feel like a stranger even with them.
The sad thing is I WANT to feel that connection but I just always feel like I'm on the outside somehow.
I think AS is over diagnosed, but more so I think people who don't really have it latch onto it as a way of comforting themselves for their social problems. I'm 22 years old, and I'm a fairly shy individual, and I've always wondered if I have AS. I was very outgoing and loved talking in class until about 8th grade, then I just started to shell up. I used to be REALLY into stars, birds, gems and other things when I was younger. I've never had any issues with school work (I rarely get below a B), and I'm set to get my Bachelors in about 4 months. My only real issue is people.
I don't enjoy the fake conversations I see others have. I have a few close friends, but that's about it. I work at a job that requires me to approach customers and assist them, though I never do. I will not make the first move, ever. All customers must approach me if they need something. Sometimes customers think I'm rude. I just don't enjoy talking to them. If they are friendly and wish to talk, I'll talk with them. Same with my co workers, I usually won't say hi unless they say hi to me first. I'll just ignore someone unless they acknowledge me first. It's a conscious effort, I know I'm doing it. I'm the same way with my own family, cold almost. I understand people's emotions, I understand when they are angry or sad, etc, I just usually don't care, I guess I lack empathy. Does that make me AS? Who knows. Other then my issues with people, I have no problems. I'm married, I hold down a job just fine, I'm great at school, I'm creative, I'm fairly normal overall. I think there are a LOT of people just like me who self diagnose with AS, and that makes me wonder, do we REALLY have AS, or are we just socially awkward/socially uncarring individuals?
Asperger's really is pretty rare (currently estimated at 1 in 110) and has a long and specific list of unusual criteria:
http://www.aspergers.com/aspcrit.htm
So it is more than just shyness, quirkiness or not caring about others. Whitelion42, note that the DSM-IV criteria require that "the disturbance causes clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning" and you sound like you are doing fine (school, job, marriage etc.) Asperger's can only be diagnosed by a psychologist, psychiatrist, neurologist or developmental pediatrician. People deciding they have it without obtaining a professional medical opinion does not make it "over diagnosed," as they never had an actual diagnosis to begin with.
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I did love this movie. Sorry to hear you have an intellectual disability, jacobstamper.
shareWhiteLion, it doesn't sound like you have AS to me. Your "symptoms" didn't appear until you were older. With AS they are present from birth.
Frankly it sounds like you have some sort of social anxiety or problem trusting others. I don't know why. But if it impairs your life in some way maybe you should talk to a psych.
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It might help if you would educate yourself about neurological disorders. Autism and Aspergers Syndrome aren't like having gall bladder or thyroid disease or even diabetes where azll patients suffering from the disease have clear cut symptoms. Try the public library.
B
My daughter has diagnosed autism (late speech, can barely read, anger issues, etc.) but she does prefer to do things on her own. She's 9 and makes her own breakfast, helps with getting her sister ready for school, helps me in the workshop, helps clean the house, helps take care of the dog, etc.
I'm on-spectrum and, even though I always wish I had someone help me with social situations, I force myself to do everything completely on my own. It never get's easier. I don't even want go to the gas station by myself, but I do it anyway. Because of this, I have no fear of managers, company owners, politicians, criminals, etc. I've had to force myself to push through fear so often, that I can suppress fear very well. I'm still afraid, but I can push it down.
When I was dropped off at college, I didn't even let my mom walk to the entrance of the dorm with me. I had packed everything into 2 bags that I carried in. I met my wife of 16 years 5 minutes later. Remember that, even though autism can make you awkward, you can still pretend to be charming and witty when you have to.
LOL indeed I thought it was crazy too but then this was the mid 60s so I'm assuming that many colleges werent equipped to handle disabilities beyond the range of someone in a wheelchair back then.
As an AS person, I actually had more meltdowns when my family got involved in my moving into a dorm room than when I was doing it by myself. But after watching this movie, I can see my Autism was not as severe as Temple's. It's different for everyone.
I am on spectrum and was terrified to go to college. I was pissing myself for months.
My mom dropped me off with one bag, per my request, and she didn't come in with me. I was 125 miles from home without a car. Everyone else was pushing in shopping carts and laundry bins with their parents helping them. I had just one leather gym bag.
I checked in at the front desk in the dorms with a beautiful Sophomore lady named Beth (my wife of 17 years now). I still remember exactly what she wore. She gave me my key and I went to my room to meet my roommate. I had 3 pairs of jeans and 6 shirts along with a knife and and a multi-tool. I cried that night around midnight for about 5 minutes missing my mother. After that, never again.
Being autistic can be a curse and a blessing. I happen to excel under pressure, while others do not. I do terribly when things are calm. I have to have stress to function yet I don't like *EXTREEEEEEEME* things. I just like solving problems and that calms me down. I don't want to parachute off a cliff while strapped to a snowmobile. I just want to solve complicated financial or logistical issues. Logistics really pumps my nads.
I believe Temple is one that prefers to take things head on. Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead.
Good Answer Janos.
I'm going to share something personal.
In 2001, my 20 year old son (having announced six months earlier) that he was going to game design school in Arizona decided to go there, get a roomate and scout around. We checked it out. We called the school, we went online and took an online tutorial. My son was a genius in gaming and on computers. He graduated from a Technical College (on a full scholarship) never getting less than 100 on any test he ever took. He was oppositional defiance disorder as a kid, we did the Tough Love bit, went to meetings, followed all the rules, made him accountable. He did well after the age of 14. He sailed through high school and college. Got good grades.
Then he left to get himself settled. No one could talk him out of him. I was kind of impressed that he would just make all these arrangements by himself, take out flight insurance, get on a plane, (he got sick, had to extend his stay by one week). I was a nervous wreck but he did just fine. He found a roommate, got all things squared away, flew home for Christmas announcing "All done, I'm moving to Arizona on Jan 2, 2002.
We were mind boggles, but hey, back in the say, sailors went off to sea and then came back, people went away to college and then came back....right?
Not my son.
I never saw him again. He never went to game design school. Turns out he was a gambler and we NEVER saw any signs. Whatever he did, he was good at it. Never hung out with hoodlums, never did drugs (I mean, there were no signs).
So once he got to Arizona, he began to do stuff we didn't understand. He called saying he went to his first casino and won $4000. His father and I said 'You did WHAT??"
We then said "come home, go to gaming school here". He said 'no, I love gambling, I love the way it makes me feel'.
Thus began a 10 year selling his furniture, not getting along with people, calling me every night threatening suicide. Turns out he was fine, never harmed himself. He used this method to get anything he wanted. They classified him as a "malingerer" in his file. I used to get calls all the time from him saying "Mom, I did it again, I got a room for the night, I got 3 meals, etc." I said 'what are you doing?" He said 'Listen to me, they will walk over your dead body, but cry suicide and by law they have to bring you to a crisis center, feed you, house you, etc."
I just stared at the phone. He was diagnosed with Narcissistic personality disorder initally.
Then (and he kept doing this suicide threatening thing in 26 cities, moving around, being put in board and care facilities, rooming houses, etc. till he got tired of getting on and off buses. He would tell the front desk to call him a cab to the nearest bus stop. The front desk of the hospital that was releasing him would say "we are not a cab servicec". He would then take out a handful of pills and threaten to take all of them if she didn't call him a cab. She called him a cab. He would do things like this off and on for years, gleefully calling me and saying 'I did it again".
Then, he was evaluated by a psychiatrist who said "I know exactly what's wrong with you, you have Aspergers'. I had never heard of this in my life. But being the dutiful mom, we went to our first Aspergers support group meeting (which I described in an earlier post). Out of the 50 men, there was only one arrogant one.
No two men were alike.
To say he made our life a living hell is putting it mildly. My husband flew down to Vegas to try and talk him out of gambling (with no success). I had to seek mental help to get my sanity back. I have not heard from him in 5 years.
I would think he has not changed his ways, conning people into getting what he wants, using suicide threats because he knows that works. He got SSD and SSI. He said to me "all I have to do is get on SSI and I'll have it made'. This sounds like Aspergers? I don't think so.
And I once asked him "Why did you leave us, really, why did you do that' He told me over the phone 'Let me ask you a question: "Would you have let me stay in my room, play my games on the computer (which he bought with his own money), not get a job, feed me and support me?" I responded "what the h kind of mother would do that?"
His reply? "now you know why I left'
Never again, believe me, after all we did for him, never again.
I did run into a girl that he knew (she did not remember me) from 20 years ago). I pretended to be a different person who knew my son over 20 years ago.
I asked her 'Did you know (mentioned my son's name). She looked at me and said "how do you know him?" I said "Well I know his mother and he never came home in 14 years, what can you tell me about him ". She looked at me and said "Well he did coke"?
Never knew this in all my life.
Told my mental health counselor who is also a buddy of mine and she says "that fits in with all his behavior"
So believe me, whether he does have AS or he doesn't, well I don't know.
What I do know is that on my husband's side of the family there is a high functioning autistic child of 16, and most recently my husband's niece has a 6 year old son who acts like a little Professor. As soon as I heard him speak I said 'that kid has Aspergers". Guess what? last year, they revealed that the kid had just been diagnosed with Aspergers.
Dont' tell me genetics aren't at play here.
Thanks for listening.
Great post Janos!
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