why didn't she kill herself?


just saw the movie. i tell you, i am generally a hard ass, but this really shook me. one thing i would like to know is why didn't soraya, with the help of zahara, just kill herself. if i was in her place, i would have tried my hardest to get as much (rat) poison as i could and just take it to escape the stoning...(god, even imagining the pain sends shivers down my spine).


also, why didn't soraya resist one bit while walking towards her own extremely painful death? she was awefully composed for someone in that position....thats not natural human behavior.

reply

yeah, same thoughts here, no need to use poison, there is knife in every kitchen to cut your wrists in this case

I don't understand why was she following rules of islam when going to execution, she could just f* them and don't understand why she didn't try to defend before execution and say they are all liars

Peter Markoff
If you don't like my english, write it to me in my own language.

reply

[deleted]

[deleted]

The reason she didn't attempt suicide is because in Islam(just as other Abrahimic religions ie Christianity and Judaism) it is considered one of the worst sins. If she would have killed herself it would be just as sinful as actually committing adultery. Essentially it's along the lines of thinking "Only God may judge me and God will find me righteous."

reply

Fine, then she could have gotten herself killed in a much quicker, less painful way and avoided the problem of suicide. She should have just taken off running and let the armed guards gun her down... a much better way to die IMO.

reply

I see. Well no offense to any muslims, but if this is the case as fanywherebuthere describes it, then this Allah character is really odd in his judgement to say the least.

reply

Allah is? Well how about your god? Its the same in almost any religion, INCLUDING Christianity and Judaism.
Kill yourself, and you'll go to hell.
Or well, I'm sure it's not as simple as that, but its pretty much along those lines.

reply

Not all Christians believe that you go to Hell if you kill yourself so don't generalize. But in the case of this movie, I think she wanted to show courage and thats why she was calm before the execution. If I were her I would have just yelled "get on with it" b/c it took a long time for her to die. I guess that was the whole point...so she would suffer. This movie made me so mad..no not at Muslims but at MEN. Those men obviously couldn't even tie their own shoes without a woman's help yet women are treated worse than animals. And it wasn't that long ago that the US gave women (and African Americans, etc) civil rights. This movie shows that if people could just keep their d*cks in their pants and uphold the responsibilities they took on when they got married, it would have had a very different outcome.

reply

"Not all Christians believe that you go to Hell if you kill yourself so don't generalize."

Thats not what I wrote smartass. I wrote that it's like that in Christianity. Huge difference since most of the hypocritical Christians just kinda choose what they want to believe in in their faith. Just because one Christian believe having sex before marriage isn't a sin, doesn't mean the bible says so, idiot.

reply

who really cares... they're all made up stories anyways, and they corrupt people.


when this baby hits eighty-eight... you're gonna see some serious *beep*

reply

I agree. Religion brings so much hate and destruction into the world. Islam people justifies suicide-bombings by saying the Koran says it's OK.
Christian people justifies hating gay people and used to justify killing black people by saying the bible says it's OK.
It's not okay, and if your religion is about hate and murder, then it's honestly not a very good religion. Who would want to be a part of that? Most of the world apparently.

reply

i don't know about bible but i think its a bit unfair to claim qoran allows suicide-bombing!!!i believe nothing is worst than understanding s.th in the wrong direction and not tryin' to correct it(as what happened to SOME muslims while trying to cover their mistakes under the name of religion)

reply

"i don't know about bible but i think its a bit unfair to claim qoran allows suicide-bombing!!"

You haven't read the Qur'an, obviously. It mentions martyrdom a helluva lot of times, and honestly, it's hard to interpret those specific text as something different. Of course suicide bombings are a rather new phenomenon, but martyrdom is not, and they are just using new means to execute the same principle.
I'm not saying all Muslims think like this, the obviously don't, especially not Muslims living in western countries. But I can honestly easily understand how the people behind the bombings believe they are doing Allah's bidding, because of the way the Qur'an is written.

reply

Not only that, but Politics brings so much hate and destruction into the world. You see it in right wing politics (eg. Neo-cons). The only ideology which does not bring hate and destruction is progressive socialism and atheism.

Stop right wing hate! Support a return of the fairness doctrine: www.fair.org

reply

Not only that, but Politics brings so much hate and destruction into the world. You see it in right wing politics (eg. Neo-cons). The only ideology which does not bring hate and destruction is progressive socialism and atheism.


best answer ever
"Say Auf Wiedersehen to your Nazi balls"!

reply

Actually, the Bible doesn't say it's okay to kill blacks. It described how to treat a slave well (slavery was everywhere then in every culture). The master could be severely punished if he treated his slaves in the manner the manner America treated its slaves. Gays were put to death in the Old Testament, but in the New Testament, Jesus healed a gay man's. sexual slave, saying nothing about the man's lifestyle;however, Jesus DID praise the gay man for his tremendous faith in him among a crowd. Jesus nixed all the OT punishments and brought grace instead, in the message that we all sin. He commanded people to forgive, show mercy, and love others as one would want others to love himself. In the Quran, there is an almost identical commandment, only Mohammed said it was only for another muslim, not Unbelievers.

reply

It's not like that in Christianity, smartass.

Nowhere in the Bible is it even implied that suicide sends you to hell.

If you're going to be an intolerant *beep* do your research.

reply

Then they're not christians because it clearly states in the bible that suicide is sin. There's really nothing to argue about. It is what it is.

...Checking how many f#cks will be given today... Sorry, no f#cks will be given today.

reply

If we go to hell for a sin
Then all of us will be there!

People do good, people do bad.

But they say - despite your sins, you will only be let into heaven if you believe in god.
So if you don't, you're going to hell even if you are a good soul.
If you're an immoral corrupted piece of abusive sh!t - but you believe in god - heaven awaits for you.

Religion is poison.

reply

Well other than the fact that she's muslim, think of what kind of affect it would have had on her daughters if she had killed herself. She wanted to show them that she was still strong. Besides the fact that they're now going to be known as the daughters of the mom that cheated if she ran away, it would have made her look a lot worse. She was going to die, regardless, she wanted to approach it with dignity and courage. It makes sense to me. I mean if she was going to die the last thing she could die knowing is that she was above the rest of them even when she was being killed by them

reply

Excellent post.

reply

Because they had to show her in her virginal white dress being sent on her way to heaven. This was just another bull**** religious film.

The whole film was trying to show that it was the evil in these men, not particularly the system, that led to her death.

God is great but man is sinful and misuses religion for his own evil means...

She was pure of heart. She faced her beating with dignity because she is going to heaven... Her husband was a caricature of a "baddy" because the filmmaker had to show that a "normal" religious man would not be capable of such a thing.

God religions are a load of horse dung.


reply

She was pure of heart. She faced her beating with dignity because she is going to heaven...


That was not a beating. She was tortured to death.

~~~~ SCANDAL - "Thinking is for losers!" Best satire ever televised.

reply

You are saying the same thing I was thinking: I would have committed suicide in this case, so why didn't she?

The difference is, Soraya believes in a grand diety and I do not. She had some flicker of hope that Allah would intervene.

The situation could have been turned around. Before the melee of stone throwing started, her father made the initial throw. The effort was so feeble, that it missed. An old woman called out something to the effect that it was a sign from Allah that the stone did not strike. If a MAN in the crowd had picked up the chant, Soraya might have been saved. But no one listened, and the next stones went to the husband who hit her squarely.

Sad sad movie. My reaction to the younger son being coerced by peer pressure to take part took me by surprise. That part disgusted me more than anything else in the movie. The older son seemed to have been completely corrupted by the father but who was crying at the end of the stoning, and who was not?

The older son coerced the unwilling younger into throwing a stone. After the bloody finish, the older son cried. We see that he had been pretending to coldness of heart, while not really feeling it. This was, no doubt, to impress the father. Even more telling, the younger son did not cry. In the act of stoning his mother, his indoctrination has begun to take hold.

reply

Interesting point about the reactions of the two sons after the stoning. My own take was that the younger boy, despite having been apparently conflicted, might have felt afterward that there is no redemption for him or anyone else who took part.

reply

Killing yourself is a lot easier said than done. Furthermore throughout history a lot of atheists underwent painful deaths or long unpleasant imprisonment in the Soviet Union. I think all the Atheists in this thread saying they would just commit suicide are talking a bunch of BS. It's easy to say you're purely rational sitting behind your keyboard, but actual people in a similar situation (atheist or not) rarely if ever take that course of action.

Stop right wing hate! Support a return of the fairness doctrine: www.fair.org

reply

In her culture it was a crime against yourself and God to kill yourself.

If she was going to die, she had to think of her honor, and the survivability of her children.

Resisting would not have helped her situation once thier attempt to flee the village was thwarted.

I also was deeply affected by the film and had the same thoughts, but really, I think she did what most women in her position would have had to do, and behaved very normally.

reply

I wondered much the same thing. Not about killing herself but about going along with the traditions. Wearing the appropriate garb, "willingly" getting up from the bed and walking herself to the execution site, covering her head as they walked. I don't imagine I would have walked on my own accord. They would have had to drag me there. I wouldn't have bothered to cover my head (they took the covering off later anyway). And I'm thinking a nice big rock smashed in her husband's face would have been a good send-off. Stone the stoners. It wouldn't have made anything worse for her. She was going to die anyway, and she was going to die brutally. How can you make it worse? And she had no honor left at that point anyway. She was a woman accused of adultery and publicly executed with rejoicing. She had no name to save.
---------------------
Move out of my way or I will MAKE you move out of my way. --Sydney Bristow.

reply

She seemed just resigned at that point. I wonder if Soraya had ever witnessed a stoning in her lifetime? Surely she'd be aware of the process. She was probably in shock and was more concerned with maintaining dignity and stoicism--for her memory. Someone mentioned that if she ran away, fought or committed suicide, it would be seen as an admission of guilt and especially with the suicide,be a crime against her soul and a slight to Allah. This is true. Remember that Soriya was a Muslim woman from strict Islamic upbringing. In other words, FAITH in Islam being paramount to anything. Takes utter precedence to self preservation...and so she prayed and was complacent--helplessly so. The end would still be the same--so she must have given up hope.
I too did ponder why she had not just run to the kitchen and grabbed a knife or asked her aunt to snap her neck or hanged herself...but at that moment I was not thinking about the spiritual implications of suicide...to a *beep* Muslim.
It would spell hell in the afterlife.
Here on this link one can read about common Qur'anic misconceptions.
http://www.quranicpath.com/misconceptions/

and more poignantly, read HERE==>
Stoning to Death: A Violation of the Qur'an
http://www.quranicpath.com/misconceptions/adultery_punishment.html

reply

Right. Stoning to death is a violation of the Code, which only prescribes ONE HUNDRED LASHES. I am shattered by such misconception. Here's the orthodox, earthly punishment of one hundred lashes, endorsed by the Code and totally opposed to the barbaric punishment of stoning:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WKX75IVL-g#t=3m42s

I am not trying to criticize the Qur'an or anything, I know little about it and I actually clicked on the link in your post hoping to find some enlightenment. And maybe the intentions of that site are honest, I took a peek on other misconceptions and some were indeed explained away.
...But in this particular case, the cynicism was immense.

(well the misogyny could not be treated as a misconception in a million years, seeing how the text of the holy book seems to be directly addressed to males, who are constantly referred to in the second person, while the females are mostly referred to indirectly, in the third person; but then the christian bible doesn't fare much better in this respect either)

there's a highway that is curling up like smoke above her shoulder

reply

She seemed just resigned at that point. I wonder if Soraya had ever witnessed a stoning in her lifetime? Surely she'd be aware of the process. She was probably in shock and was more concerned with maintaining dignity and stoicism--for her memory. Someone mentioned that if she ran away, fought or committed suicide, it would be seen as an admission of guilt and especially with the suicide,be a crime against her soul and a slight to Allah. This is true. Remember that Soriya was a Muslim woman from strict Islamic upbringing. In other words, FAITH in Islam being paramount to anything. Takes utter precedence to self preservation...and so she prayed and was complacent--helplessly so. The end would still be the same--so she must have given up hope.
I too did ponder why she had not just run to the kitchen and grabbed a knife or asked her aunt to snap her neck or hanged herself...but at that moment I was not thinking about the spiritual implications of suicide...to a **Shi ite** Muslim.("S" word ** separated because when I write it as 1 word, it gets censored for some bizarre reason)
It would spell hell in the afterlife.
Here on this link one can read about common Qur'anic misconceptions.
http://www.quranicpath.com/misconceptions/

and more poignantly, read HERE==>
Stoning to Death: A Violation of the Qur'an
http://www.quranicpath.com/misconceptions/adultery_punishment.html

reply

I find it interesting that several posters here (I've also seen similar comments on Amazon) have stated what they "would have" done in her place: "I wouldn't have gone on my own accord. I would've killed myself. I would have fought back, or run away..." People say similar things about sexual assault victims: "Why didn't he fight back? Why didn't she scream? I would have!"

All I can say is how can anyone know what he or she would do? You've never faced that sort of situation. You don't know - you CANNOT know - what you would do, because it's so unthinkable and outside the realm of what most people (hopefully) will experience. In a traumatic situation, the body starts functioning on autopilot and has four choices - fight, flight, freeze, surrender. More often than not, people freeze until it's too late to fight or flee.

I thought Soraya's outwardly calm reaction was exactly in keeping with a bizarre and horrifying event such as this. She was "convicted", sentenced and executed within the space of a few hours. Part of the explanation for her demeanour would be shock - the brain being unable to process what is going on. And maybe she thought there was no way she was going to get out of this, so she may as well go out with some dignity; maybe part of her was hoping against hope that the mayor would see reason.

Just horrendous - all the more so since it's apparently a true story.

reply

I found it significant that she resolved to her aunt that she wouldn't cry--that indicated a desire to face it with a stoic dignity, probably for the sake of her family's memory of her, or to show a confidence before the people that she really is righteous and has nothing to fear of meeting Allah her maker.

Of course she did cry--the physical pain was undoubtedly too much, but I think she really lost it seeing her father disown her and cast the first stones, and probably especially her sons whom she loved so dearly, and even her husband whom she once had, and maybe still to some extent, loved.

I remember being particularly saddened when the younger son was goaded into throwing a stone. I was saying (tearfully) to the TV, "don't do it, you'll have nightmares of it your whole life." Imagine, doing that to your own mother. There's a special place in hell for the adults (it wasn't just the elder son goading him) who push a child into doing that to their own mother. "Throw it, for God", they said. I think the elder son cried afterwards because he understood better the significance of it, and I like to think he began having some doubts and remorse. The younger was simply in shock, and will probably suffer a huge PTSD his whole life from it. The elder son probably will too.

The husband was a snake through the end, even smirking smugly with no remorse whatsoever. An example of a true sociopath using and manipulating "the law" to destroy another--perhaps the most insidious form of evil on this Earth, and practiced everywhere. (Not to take anything away from how harsh and brutal the particular law in question here was.)

As for the suicide question: I had the same thoughts. In her last hour, I was thinking "don't give them the satisfaction" of venting their bloodlust on you this way. But I think some of the other posters here were right: it was the combination of suicide being the ultimate sin (I know some Christians, particularly Catholics, believe it is unforgivable because you cannot repent of it once it's done; and maybe at least some Muslims believe similarly); and a willingness to face it with dignity, a sense of honor, and perhaps with an expression of confidence that Allah knows the truth and that she will be brave in her faith knowing that, and imminently facing Allah as her judge. And probably also so her children won't be shunned or face some sort of dishonor in the village, or other bad repercussions if she ran or died "dishonorably".


Understanding is a three-edged sword.

reply