MovieChat Forums > Hercules (2014) Discussion > Hercules was likely a black guy in real ...

Hercules was likely a black guy in real life


Yea

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No he wasn't you afrocentric revisionist POS

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Well, that's kind of harsh, but he definitely wasn't of african ancestry. I liked this movie for what it was, comicbook escapism.

100% Comic Book Purist, and Bloody Proud of it !

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He was black

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Hercules being black is a historic fact.

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People and their ridiculous claims. Hercules was Greek. So no he was NOT likely a 'black' guy in real life. He was white.

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Hercules is a myth. Greek gods don't exist. Neither do creatures like the ones he has to battle. But now you demand realism? If you want a white Hercules, please help yourself to the other adaptations. This movie isn't going to be the last take, and I'm 100% sure it won't start a trend of casting the "wrong race" for fantasy movies. Rme...

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What are you even talking about? This Hercules adaptation is as white as all the other Hercules. The Rock was made to look European in this movie since that is what Hercules is=Greek=European=white. They even stuck a straight haired brown wig on the Rock. If you want a character that isn't white then go pick mythical characters that aren't European. Keep picking European mythical characters like Hercules and you will end up getting white characters.

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Hercules was Italian

Heracles Greek i thought

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Who cares, it's a movie

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Wow, that is a pretty stupid remark. The Romans changed his name but not the details of the story. Whether he is referred to as Hercules or Heracles, he is still Greek.

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The Romans stole the gods and myths from the Greeks.

So Hercules/Heracles was Greek. Well, half Greek, half God. But the Greek Gods were also "Greek".

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Black

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#psteve321

Why is so damn important to you that the Rock supposedly look like a white guy (which he dosen't, and never will,because he's NOT white,anyway?) Who gives a *beep* anyway? I sure as hell don't! It dosen't matter how damn much you wish he was white, he's NOT and never will be! Now kindly go smash your head against a damn wall because you can't deal with that. Mythical characters are just that---MYTHICAL characters--this is the 21st century,so they can be played by actors of ANY color, period. You wouldn't be talking all of this BS if a white actor was playing him, so quit wasting your breath and taking up valuable board space with this "I want Hercules to be white" bull****. Go watch the other Hercules movies and TV shows then, and quit whining about this one.

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Go get your eyes checked, idiot. The Rock clearly looks Caucasian in this movie because he is playing a white character. The only idiot around here who sees a "black" dude in this movie is you becaus you can't stand the fact that the Rock obviously is not black and has features that can pass for Caucasian. Even the producers in this film clearly were going for a Caucasian in this film since they have the Rock even wear a long straight haired brown wig since the Character the Rock is playing in this movie is European, stupid. Get over yourself and go get your eyes checked.

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He's cleary black

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You are clearly blind because he clearly is not 'black'.

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If I was blind I likely wouldn't be able to browse these boards in the first place, and that said, Hercules is more likely to be black than me being blind

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I can't tell if you're just a stupid troll, or a delusional psychopath.

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@ benelli86 I'm not a troll or psychopath, if I'm anything at all then I'm correct (about my statements)

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Yeah you clearly are blind because Hercules is clearly NOT black. As a European, Hercules is white and you have proven to be blind as bat.

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The Rock clearly looks Caucasian in this movie because he is playing a white character.
Hercules and The Rock are two different people. Being blind to the actor's ethnicity and to mythological heroes are a non sequitor. Besides, Dwayne Johnson by no means looks white anyway, not even close and that is simply because no part of him is white. He does looks mixed raced/black though. He may not look like your typical mixed African American, but believe it or not, the world has a greater variety of people than just black Americans and white Americans.


http://1971-reviewae.com

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Nonsense. Dwayne Johnson does too look Caucasian in roles that require him to play the part of a white character. He even played a white character in the movie Snitch where he was clearly identified as “white” helping to save his white son in trouble with the law. As the movie poster pic below clearly shows the Rock looks just as much like a Caucasian as his co-stars do, straight long hair brown wig and all.
http://dwaynejohnsoncentral.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/the-rock-tower s1.jpg

Read the following article that talks about Johnson's ability to play characters of different races because he has the features to pull it off.


Dwayne Johnson - 'Race Shifter' In A Post Racial World
We all know that there’s been a lot of talk about how we are all now living in a “post-racial” society. Though I think, most of us will respond to that with a “Yeah right.”

But things are changing, albeit slowly, but they are changing. And it dawned on me last night, during an advance screening of G.I. Joe: Retaliation, that the one person who could be an example of this post racial utopia we're supposed to be living in, is Dwayne Johnson.

It should be very obvious by now the Johnson has been positioning himself to be a major A–list movie star. He easily could have just gone on to be a B-movie actor, content with doing supporting roles in action/exploitation films, and starring in direct-to-video movies, like some of his former WWE cohorts. But Johnson has much higher aspirations.

And it’s not just the film projects that he’s attached himself to, but also, either by design or by happenstance, how he's been perceived racially by the public. He has become a “race shifter” for lack of a better word.

Through his obviously ethnic, but not clearly defined looks (he’s black Canadian/Samoan), he has managed to become “identified” as it were, by different audiences, as different things, and has used that to his advantage.

For example, in Johnson’s recent film Snitch, he was clearly identified as “white” helping to save his white son in trouble with the law. However in G.I. Joe, he’s clearly identified as being “black”. His character in the film has two young black daughters who he dearly loves.

Yet the fact that Johnson can smoothly switch from “white” to “black” to even “other,” without any comment or seemingly any notice from audiences, is intriguing.

Possibly a major factor for that is simply because Johnson has an incredibly charismatic and likable persona. Like any genuine movie star, he pulls you into the screen, not pushes you away. As the old saying goes, when Johnson is on the screen, Johnson is on the screen.

He has slightly comic self-awareness of his whole physicality and effectively uses it to even mock and send up the whole macho man image, which makes him instantly likable. It’s almost as if he’s saying: “Look ,I don’t take myself seriously, so why should you?”

And that fact may have crossed over to the audiences' perceptions of his own racial identity. Johnson can be whatever he wants to be because he’s somehow bigger than life, a fantasy creation as it were, and, therefore, transcends any labels that can be put on him.

He’s human Teflon.

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What you are saying and what the article is saying, are not the same thing. I have already read this, and I agree with its central point and that is The Rock is racially ambiguous. 'Racially ambiguous' is not the same as looking white. If anything, people of colour, including blacks as a group, tend to be more racially ambiguous than 'white' people as a group because of the variations in their skin tones, facial features and hair textures.

BTW, The Rock identifies himself as black and even has curly type afro hair. When seen with his natural hair, especially when younger, he looks more like what you would say a typical African American looks like. When he has a straight wig on for a role, or is just bald, if not black at most he looks a typical Latino, Mediterranean or even Middle Eastern, but certainly not White European.

http://1971-reviewae.com

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Well Mediterranean is a racial category that is part of the white races category and it includes such Northern Europeans as the Celtic aka Irish. Also Latinos aren't a racial category, there are many Latinos who are white and identify as such via their European ancestry.

There are many black people who do not have racially ambiguous features. A black person who clearly has identifiable black features like Will Smith wouldn't be able to play characters of different races, or as the article calls it 'race shift'. Its typically multiracial types who can do this who have features that are ambiguous due to being racially mixed. That is what the article is talking about when it says Johnson's may have black and Samoan ancestry but his features don't show it, which allows him to 'race shift' for various role that require him to be different racial types. Meaning that the Rock can very well pass for European when the roles he plays needs him to pass for a European aka white dude, including his role as Hercules as well as when he played a white character in the movie Snitch where he was clearly identified as “white” helping to save his white son in trouble with the law. That is what the article is talking about when it says 'race shifting', his ability to play characters that are of different racial types because his features are racially ambiguous and allows him to play a European, African, Asian, Indigenous American, etc. when the roles call of it, as the highlighted segments in the article show.


Dwayne Johnson - 'Race Shifter' In A Post Racial World
We all know that there’s been a lot of talk about how we are all now living in a “post-racial” society. Though I think, most of us will respond to that with a “Yeah right.”

But things are changing, albeit slowly, but they are changing. And it dawned on me last night, during an advance screening of G.I. Joe: Retaliation, that the one person who could be an example of this post racial utopia we're supposed to be living in, is Dwayne Johnson.

It should be very obvious by now the Johnson has been positioning himself to be a major A–list movie star. He easily could have just gone on to be a B-movie actor, content with doing supporting roles in action/exploitation films, and starring in direct-to-video movies, like some of his former WWE cohorts. But Johnson has much higher aspirations.

And it’s not just the film projects that he’s attached himself to, but also, either by design or by happenstance, how he's been perceived racially by the public. He has become a “race shifter” for lack of a better word.

Through his obviously ethnic, but not clearly defined looks (he’s black Canadian/Samoan), he has managed to become “identified” as it were, by different audiences, as different things, and has used that to his advantage.

For example, in Johnson’s recent film Snitch, he was clearly identified as “white” helping to save his white son in trouble with the law. However in G.I. Joe, he’s clearly identified as being “black”. His character in the film has two young black daughters who he dearly loves.

Yet the fact that Johnson can smoothly switch from “white” to “black” to even “other,” without any comment or seemingly any notice from audiences, is intriguing.

Possibly a major factor for that is simply because Johnson has an incredibly charismatic and likable persona. Like any genuine movie star, he pulls you into the screen, not pushes you away. As the old saying goes, when Johnson is on the screen, Johnson is on the screen.

He has slightly comic self-awareness of his whole physicality and effectively uses it to even mock and send up the whole macho man image, which makes him instantly likable. It’s almost as if he’s saying: “Look ,I don’t take myself seriously, so why should you?”

And that fact may have crossed over to the audiences' perceptions of his own racial identity. Johnson can be whatever he wants to be because he’s somehow bigger than life, a fantasy creation as it were, and, therefore, transcends any labels that can be put on him.

He’s human Teflon.

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by psteve321;

"Johnson's may have black and Samoan ancestry but his features don't show it, which allows him to 'race shift'"

And Johnson is not the only entertainer who has been able to do this.

A major influence on black rhythm and blues in the 1940s and 50s was Johnny Otis.
He was completely accepted in the African American community.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Otis

But Otis was not born African American.
His parents were Greek.

How can this be?
Countries like Greece are close to Africa. There has been race mixing in that part of the world for thousands of years.
Bottom line; the real Hercules (Heracles) could have had a mixed race ancestry.

BB ;-)

it's just in my opinion - imo -

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More delusion nonsense. The real Hercules was not mixed with any black and neither are any Greeks. Otis was an idiot who thought just because he hung out with blacks he'd take on their identity. He wasn't black but a wannabe, a mixed up in the head white dude wishing he was black. For the record Greece isn't anywhere close to Sub Sahara Africa for Greeks to mixing it up with blacks, that's why Greeks have as little to no black admixture as all other Europeans. That's why Greeks cluster far away from blacks both genetically and phenotypically, thats why Greeks cluster both genetically and phenotypically with all other Europeans, and why the Greek police can pick out all those none white and none European immigrants in a country that is 99% European aka white.

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by psteve321;

"Otis ... thought just because he hung out with blacks he'd take on their identity. He wasn't black but a wannabe,"

Otis passed for black. That is a fact.
I met the guy; Black hair, dark brown eyes and what used to be called swarthy complexion.
In the early 20th century people like Otis (darker Southern Europeans) were discriminated against in the US because of the way they looked.
That slowly changed in the 1940s - 50s.

"The real Hercules was not mixed with any black and neither are any Greeks."

You and I have no way of knowing which ancient Greeks mixed with black people. We were not there.
Hercules could have had a mixed race background.

"For the record Greece isn't anywhere close to Sub Sahara Africa for Greeks to mixing it up with blacks, "

Greece is near Egypt. And ancient Egypt was fighting Sub Sahara Nubia for many years.

Here is an image of Ramses II fighting Nubians. Notice the skin color differences.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ramses_II_charging_Nubians.jpg

More about the Nubians and Ancient Egypt;

During the Egyptian Middle Kingdom (c. 2040–1640 BC), Egypt began expanding into Nubia to gain more control over the trade routes in Northern Nubia and direct access to trade with Southern Nubia...

The Nubians in turn were to conquer Egypt under its 25th Dynasty.[14]

However, relations between the two peoples also show peaceful cultural interchange and cooperation, including mixed marriages.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nubia#Nubia_and_Ancient_Egypt

A more specific date when Nubia overran the upper Nile, 728 BC when Nubian king Piy conquered Egypt.
http://www.ancientegypt.co.uk/time/explore/main.html

"that's why Greeks have as little to no black admixture as all other Europeans."

- Yes, but Europeans as a whole show more black admixture compared with other continents.
- Also, we are talking about one person, Hercules, and whether this one person had a mixed race background.
I am not talking about the average Greek/European population.

* The genetic distance between Sub-Saharan Africa and Europe is lower than any other continent.
The study suggests that the lower genetic distance between Europe and Africa can be explained by genetic admixture.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_admixture_in_Europe
Meaning, there is some evidence of children between Africans and Europeans over the years.
Why? Because Europe is closer to Africa so there is more opportunity for Europeans and blacks to have children together.

BB ;-)

it's just in my opinion - imo -

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Otis passed for black. That is a fact.
I met the guy; Black hair, dark brown eyes and what used to be called swarthy complexion.
In the early 20th century people like Otis (darker Southern Europeans) were discriminated against in the US because of the way they looked.
That slowly changed in the 1940s - 50s.


Otis did not pass for black. He was a confused in the head white dude who wished he was black because he hung out with blacks.

Here are the Veliotes family. None would pass for 'black', nor do they look black nor 'mixed blacks'. They are clearly identifiable as Caucasians.
http://www.cord-less-services.com/family/veliotes.html

Here are ACTUAL Greeks. None of would 'pass' for black', nor do any even look 'black' or 'mixed' black or whatever. They are clearly WHITE.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWFPXimjAnY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6zvaMkfges
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-FuA_YccXA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rahKLvVc4pM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZXuac6WMls

Thats how our brave Greek police can tell apart all those none white immigrants from actual Greeks, cause Greeks as Europeans are white, while those dark skinned immigrants from Africa, Asia, Middle East are not, as the English reporter in the clip below clearly states.

'Here in the Athens its dark skin that is attracting police officers who were given a mandate to stop and take anyone they suspect is illegal immigrants in for questioning."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YTDGpwO3KU

Otis obviously had issues with his own racial identity and chose to be something that he was not.

Also Southern Europeans were not 'discriminated' against any more then any other NONE WASP Euros were, and it had nothing do with them being seen as 'not white' because that was not the case. They were still viewed as white. Jim Crow laws never applied towards Southern Europeans because as Europeans they were seen as white, that is why they could vote, marry other white people and own land, things that blacks and none whites couldn't do.

You and I have no way of knowing which ancient Greeks mixed with black people. We were not there.
Hercules could have had a mixed race background.


Ancient Greeks weren't mixing it up with black people because blacks were an anomaly in Greece back then as they were in modern times. That's why ancient Greeks remains show to have European genes similar to modern Europeans as do modern Greeks and no black African admixture. So like I said, ancient Greeks weren't 'mixing' it up with any blacks given the xenophobic nature of Greeks in general.

Greece is near Egypt. And ancient Egypt was fighting Sub Sahara Nubia for many years.


Greece is not near Egypt, which is North Africa to begin with, and Greece is clearly NOT anywhere close to sub Saharan Africa.

- Yes, but Europeans as a whole show more black admixture compared with other continents.
- Also, we are talking about one person, Hercules, and whether this one person had a mixed race background.
I am not talking about the average Greek/European population.


Europeans as a whole have as LITTLE to NO black admixture as all other none blacks.
Hercules was not 'mixed', your dubious attempt to try and make this clearly European character into a 'mixed black' speaks volumes of your ideology. Hercules was a European, a white dude.

* The genetic distance between Sub-Saharan Africa and Europe is lower than any other continent.
The study suggests that the lower genetic distance between Europe and Africa can be explained by genetic admixture.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_admixture_in_Europe
Meaning, there is some evidence of children between Africans and Europeans over the years.
Why? Because Europe is closer to Africa so there is more opportunity for Europeans and blacks to have children together.


Your site states Europeans have as little to no Sub Saharan African admixture, less then 3% in fact, and it clusters Europeans away from Sub Saharan Africans and closer to all other none black groups. Meaning Europeans weren't 'mixing it up' with blacks as much as some like to wish they were. Look at where Europeans cluster compared to blacks..I'll give you a hint -> Far away from blacks:
http://greek-dna-sub-saharan-myth.org/images/genetics/cavalli-sforza-h istory-p82-fig235.gif

Europeans are some of the most homogenous continental people in the world, and studies have shown European across the continent and Europeans in diaspora are closely related to one another. Read:

How the Europeans are one big family: People from across the continent are all related.

After centuries of almost endless conflict, it would be hard to claim Europe is one big family – but that's just what we are, say scientists.
Those of European descent still living on the continent are related to each other.

'On a genealogical level, everyone in Europe traces back to nearly the same set of ancestors' Professor Coop made the claim after checking the DNA of more than 2,000 Europeans for common segments that have been passed down the generations.

As these chunks of DNA get shorter from generation to generation, it is possible to work out how far back they date – and so when we shared ancestors.

It might seem incredible that everyone who was alive in Europe in 1013 and had children is an ancestor of everyone on the continent today, the researchers say that simple maths backs them up.
This is because the number of ancestors a person has doubles with each generation – you have two parents, four grandparents, eight great-grandparents and so on.
The number grows so quickly that just 1,000 years back, or 30 generations, you have roughly one billion ancestors.
As a result anyone from 1,000 years ago who left any descendants is related to every European alive today

In other words, many of us can trace our roots back to the same colourful characters.
It also means that claims that someone is related to a famous figure such as Cleopatra or has Viking blood – are often as likely to be true for the person having the test as their boss or next-door neighbor.


So like I have been saying, another European is more closely related to Herakels and Greeks then some none European types like Sub Saharan Africans and Chinese.

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@psteve321

FYI, Johnny Otis (who just passed away this year--coincidently,around the same time his first discovery as a recording artist, Etta James, did---look him up) actually grew up and was raised IN a mostly black neighborhood. So, no he wasn't "mixed up in the head" or an idiot as you put it---read his autobiography---he lived and acted black because that's all he grew up around. Just like an Asian-American who identifies with white folks (or black/Latino folks,in some cases) because that's all they grew up around or were exposed to the most in their formative years. Trust me, there's a BIG difference bwt a wanna-be white hipster and a white person who actually grew up around black people---it's not even the same damn thing. There's white folks/Latinos/Arabs in Detroit like that, for example. Also keep in mind he grew up in a time where anybody who hung with black folks was automatically looked down upon and shunned by a racist society. However, your racist a** acts like that's a bad thing---dosen't surprise me.


Anyway, just to piss you off, here's some nice pictures depicting folks having some good old fun interracial sex in ancient Rome. Now go bust your damn head open over that one:

http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-h ercules/from-ancient-rome/comment-page-1/#comment-55297

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Otis was a confused in the head white dude who wished he was black because he hung out with blacks. And none of those pictures you posted are of 'interracial' couples, but of course the Afrocentric clownish site you used for your nonsense WISHED they were. Thanks for proven yet again the stupidity of Afrocentrics like 'http://www.africaresource.com' the same Afrocentric identity confused idiots that even claim the VIKINGS as black.

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@psteve

Like I said,he GREW UP with black people--he wasn't like these wanna-be white hipsters today who like to play at dabbling in other cultures. BIG difference there. And in a more segregated, racist time where even hanging round with black people could get you beaten up, get you run out of town, or even killed by other white folks,especially in the South, for that matter---we're talking well over 50 years ago in pre-civil rights America here. You obviously know nothing about him--he discovered Etta James, and had his one classic early rock 'n roll hit "Willie & The Hand Jive"---look it up. He wasn't any mixed-up in any damn way,shape or form. Your racist a** just hates to hear that a fellow Greek was actually kicking it with black folks--that just *beep* you up, don't it---oh,BTW, he also married a black woman and they had a couple of kids together,too. Here's his bio:

http://www.amazon.com/Upside-Your-Head-Central-Culture/dp/0819562874/r ef=pd_sim_b_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=01HVKCFAPV54HBY7AZ0V


There are sources cited on that site, but your close-minded,ignorant racist a** can't even be bothered to look at it, how the hell would you know whether it's true or not if you didn't even bother to check it?

Just screw the *beep* off---you're nothing but a racist nut trying so damn hard to prove that Greeks are so superior and that black people are so inferior---just *beep* off with that bull***. Obviously the ancient Greeks found African folks interesting enough to draw pictures of (and kick it with) and didn't see them as just the "aliens" you say they were to the Greeks. Most cultures don't grow in a vacuum---they also grow by exposure to other cultures, and the Greeks weren't any different. Now once again, you may go kindly go back to *beep* yourself, you racist psycho d***.

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Typical anti-white and anti-European 'racist' claims by a black. How obvious can you get. I'm racist because I don't fall for the politically correct BS that some around here want to promote. Meanwhile you promoting YOUR black superiority with all these Afrocentric sites you keep posting, means nothing. What a hypocrite you are. Ancient Greeks found blacks as aliens aka FOREIGN types and as that source your 'buddy' provided states, ancient Greeks didn't 'glorify' blacks as you Afrocentrics like to falsely claim. Ha!
Otis was a confused in the head white dude who wished he was black because he hung out with blacks. No there aren't 'sources' on that Afrocentric clownish site 'http://www.africaresource.com' are the same Afrocentric identity confused idiots who have even claim the VIKINGS as black. That's how desperate you blacks are to connect yourselves to us Europeans, that you'd even stupidly claim the VIKINGS as black.

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ell that to your "black bros" who keep drowning like rats trying to reach Greece and put a strain on the system.


If Greece is so great, then why aren't you living there? That's right. It's a dump...a crumbling society that lost its glory thousands of years ago, but has been basking in its former glory all the same (hence, you). The reality is, for those immigrants, Greece is nothing but a STEPPING STONE to get to GOOD parts of Europe...where the white people aren't insecure about their "whiteness" and don't have to resort to desperate Internet spamming to convince people they're white. Maybe Germany, which is superior to Greece and pretty much owns it, thanks to the EU. The EU is the charity keeping Greece on its feet.

This is pSteve's Plea: But we Greeks are white, honestly. We really are, I swear it. Please accept us as TRUE whites. Please. I can prove Greeks are white...here are some videos of pale-skinned Greeks from Youtube. Do you accept us as true whites now? Just accept us as a true whites, I beg you. My self-esteem depends on it. Please, pretty please. I really want to join the KKK and the Neo-Nazi, but they won't let me in because they say I am Greek, and Greeks aren't really white. If I can show them how truly white we are, they will accept me as one of them.

Beauty will save the world--Dostoevsky.

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Typical anti-white and anti-European rhetoric from the Afrocentric clown. Greeks is light years ahead from the undeveloped 3rd world Sub Saharan African homelands your black "bros" drown like rats to leave. . Germans and all other Europeans see Greeks as white. It is you who is desperate to 'prove' that Greeks aren't 'white' when even a source your stupidass provided states Greeks are a white society.

Greece was never like this, its only since it entered the EU and was FORCED to let in all those 3rd world immigrants that its started going down the tubes. This was Athens before the 3rd world immigrants started invading. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lktZE4rYRaU

Now look at Athens with all those 3rd world illegals invading the country. They are destroying it, as they are doing most European cities they are infesting.   
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8gzIgGTuo8
 
So Tell that to your "black bros" who keep drowning like rats trying to reach Greece and put a strain on the system. 

'Here in the Athens its dark skin that is attracting police officers who were given a mandate to stop and take anyone they suspect is illegal immigrants in for questioning."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YTDGpwO3KU

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Wow. I didn't know I was debating with a bigot. Disappointing.


http://1971-reviewae.com

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@psteve321


Shut the *beep* up, psteve. First of all, that last link you posted really didn't give ANY context as to what was actually going on in that video--and it only showed ONE dude destroying anything--a plain old box. And Greece has had major financial troubles due to the 2008 economic crash (like practically every other country in the entire world) and its recent attempts at auaterity---that didn't have s*** to do with immigrants. Where the hell is your proof of that?

Oh,BTW---I know you're a *beep* white supremacist now---the "Golden Dawn" title on that video link you posted is the title of a neo-Nazi political party in Greece--thought that name sounded familiar---so you can lose me/move the *beep* on with all that racist bull**** you're talking. And, yeah, I'm a proud black American, so go *beep* yourself,a**hole. And parts of Africa (the parts that white people didn't steal and plunder for themselves during slavery to build half the European continent) are just as developed as any other damn country---do the damn research, you deluded racist freak.

Also, if you were so damn sure Greek people are so white, why are you trying so damn hard to prove it all the time? It you were that damn secure in your whiteness as a Greek, you wouldn't keep trying so desperately to prove it. Methinks thou dost protest WAY too damn much about Greek people not being white--flat-out. Thou needest to get the *beep* over thyself---you're white, Greeks are white---fine---nobody gives a straight-up *beep* about it outside your little freak white supremacist circle--or outside of your mixed-up,screwed-up racist head.

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Oh yeah I'm "racist" because I'm telling the truth. ....idiot. 

That video showed exactly what was going on, illegal 3rd world immigrants from undeveloped countries destroying a host nation they don't even belong in. Everyone with common sense knows Greeks are white, it's liberal idiots and delusional blacks who falsely try to claim otherwise because they have not a clue about what they are talking about, spreading typical anti-white and anti-European rhetoric all in pathetic attempt to promote "multiculturalism".  

Eh Africa is an undeveloped continent, you dope, that's why thousands of blacks and other 3rd world immigrants die everyday trying to reach Developed Countries in the West. Otherwise all these immigrants would have stayed in their own countries.

 Greece and Europe are light years ahead from the undeveloped 3rd world Sub Saharan African homelands your black "bros" drown like rats to leave. Europe as a whole started to go down hill mostly since the creation of the EU and we were FORCED to let in all those 3rd world immigrants. This is what European countries look like after all these 3rd world undeveloped immigrants started invading Europe. They are destroying most European cities they are infesting, from the UK to France, Italy, Spain, Greece, and even Northern European countries like Sweden aren't safe from their distraction and crime waves. That's why anti-immigration feelings are running high across Europe, forcing us to take in all these 3rd world immigrants all in the name of "multiculturalism":
https://www.youtube.com/#/watch?v=x0tqS7GDe-s
https://www.youtube.com/#/watch?v=IcmUFP2fhx8
https://www.youtube.com/#/watch?v=US1sYl_1A1Y 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdBwgjeDUTI
https://www.youtube.com/#/watch?v=weabcQ0Tvt8

'Here in the Athens its dark skin that is attracting police officers who were given a mandate to stop and take anyone they suspect is illegal immigrants in for questioning."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YTDGpwO3KU

Call me "racist" all you want if it makes you feel better, but all those videos speak for themselves.

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BTW, The Rock identifies himself as black and even has curly type afro hair. When seen with his natural hair, especially when younger, he looks more like what you would say a typical African American looks like. When he has a straight wig on for a role, or is just bald, if not black at most he looks a typical Latino, Mediterranean or even Middle Eastern, but certainly not White European.

You do realize Greeks are Mediterranean, right? According to you, that means Dwayne Johnson can pass for a Greek.


"WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK I AM???!!!!!"

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If I was blind I likely wouldn't be able to browse these boards in the first place
No, no blind person has ever been on the internet... ever.

There's aren't programs or special devices that have the capability to read the text to you or anything like that... Nor is there a reason for ALT tags incorporated into images and such.

Since you clearly fail at researching, you might want to go back and rethink your opening post.

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[deleted]

An Ancient Greek depiction of Hercules as black, circa 425 BCE.
http://medievalpoc.tumblr.com/post/67368412482/ancient-art-week-vase-w ith-scene-heracles


Beauty will save the world--Dostoevsky.

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This from the same clown who tried to pass off South Asians as "Greeks". Hilarious!

Hercules lineages are European, he was never depicted as a Sub Saharan African. The fact that you took your nonsense from an online Afrocentric clownish site only shows how foolish you are.
Hercules was never depicted as "black" by ancient sources, and he sure as heck does not have ne gro features in any of those vases that foolish Afrocentric site you posted from. Here are actual depictions of Hercules from ancient times, anyone with perfect vision can see he clearly does not have black features and looks like the white dude he is.
http://images.metmuseum.org/CRDImages/gr/web-large/DP156215.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-V9jBR16rH2k/ThbalfIviiI/AAAAAAAALp8/v6qqm1SD mNw/s1600/DSC_0034.JPG

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to psteve321;

"he was never depicted as a Sub Saharan African"

True but Dwayne Johnson does not look pure Sub Saharan African.
He looks mixed race.
And a Greek can look mixed race. I already mentioned a Greek who passed for African American above, Johnny Otis.

Hercules from Greece which is near Egypt and the Middle East could have been of a mixed race background.

"Here are actual depictions of Hercules from ancient times,"

The statues that you linked to are from later Greek history.
Hercules (Heracles) is at the beginning of Greek mythology.
Most of the oldest Greek images are on vases.

Here is a link to an image of Heracles on a vase from 540-530 BC

http://www.ancient.eu.com/image/1011/

BB ;-)

it's just in my opinion - imo -

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Greece is in Europe and nowhere near Egypt. A Greek does not look mix. Thats just more nonsense from someone who has no clue what Greeks look like. Greeks do not carry African admixture. That's why Greeks cluster far away from Africans both genetically and phenotypically, and thats why Greeks cluster both genetically and phenotypically with all other Europeans, and why the Greek police can pick out all those none white and African immigrants in a country that is 99% European aka white.

That is Athenian black and red figure vases, the figures turned that colored AFTER they were baked. If you notice even the GOAT and Flowers turned black. That Athenian vase you posted does not depicted racial types and it sure as heck is not showing black people, especially given the clear Caucasian features on the figures.

No ancient sources has ever depicted or described Hercules as "black". Ancient Greeks depicted themselves and their Gods and heroes like the Europeans aka white people Greeks are, as those statues I posted clearly show Hercules as white.

Otis was a mixed up in the head white fool. No one mistook him for a black or "mixed", the idiot wished he was "black" since he hung out with blacks. Most people in his era thought he was an idiot, while modern political correct kooks try to show him up as an "example" for their bs nonsense.

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[deleted]

Wouldn't you if someone came around falsely claiming your heritage, culture and ethnic mythical characters were something that they were not? I see how people are up in arms when white actors are cast to play none white characters.

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[deleted]

Cleopatra was not an Egyptian, as her very European name clearly indicates she was of European, Greek-Macedonian to be specific ancestry. So Liz Taylor playing her was racially accurate. Now if you said Nerfetiti who really was Egyptian your point would have been made more accurately.

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by psteve321;

"Greece is in Europe and nowhere near Egypt."

In ancient times Greece and Egypt had regular trade and contact.

"A Greek does not look mix. Thats just more nonsense from someone who has no clue what Greeks look like."

I come from a Southern European background. The same things I'm saying about ancient Greeks could apply to ancient Italians.
And I know what Greeks look like since I know many of them.

"Greeks do not carry African admixture. That's why Greeks cluster far away from Africans both genetically and phenotypically, and thats why Greeks cluster both genetically and phenotypically with all other Europeans,"

I explained this in my other post to you.
I am not claiming that Greeks have more African admixture compared with other Europeans.

* Europeans as a whole show more black admixture compared with other continents.
* The genetic distance between Sub-Saharan Africa and Europe is lower than any other continent.

The study suggests that the lower genetic distance between Europe and Africa can be explained by genetic admixture.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_admixture_in_Europe
Meaning, there is some evidence of children between Africans and Europeans over the years.
Why? Because Europe is closer to Africa so there is more opportunity for Europeans and blacks to have children together.

* I am claiming that Heracles could have had some African admixture in his background (just as Dwayne Johnson does).

"That is Athenian black and red figure vases, the figures turned that colored AFTER they were baked. If you notice even the GOAT and Flowers turned black. That Athenian vase you posted does not depicted racial types and it sure as heck is not showing black people, especially given the clear Caucasian features on the figures."

1. The women's faces are white.
2. The figure of Heracles is not a clear racial type.
I never claimed that Heracles was 100% black or that he clearly looked black.
- I was claiming that the real Heracles could be mixed race just as Dwayne Johnson is mixed race.

"No ancient sources has ever depicted or described Hercules as "black"."

I never said that Heracles was black.
I said it was possible that Heracles could be of mixed ancestry.

"Ancient Greeks depicted themselves and their Gods and heroes like the Europeans aka white people Greeks are, as those statues I posted clearly show Hercules as white."

You are repeating information which is not useful.
The statues you mention come from the end of Ancient Greek history.
The vases are the earliest images from Ancient Greek culture.

"Otis was a mixed up in the head white fool. No one mistook him for a black or "mixed","

Otis passed for black. I'm an older guy. I met him. I know.

"Most people in his era"

Most young people in the US have no idea how bad racism was before 1960.

BB ;-)

it's just in my opinion - imo -

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In ancient times Greece and Egypt had regular trade and contact.


That still doesn't make Greece near Egypt.

I come from a Southern European background. The same things I'm saying about ancient Greeks could apply to ancient Italians.
And I know what Greeks look like since I know many of them.


I AM Southern European, and anyone who is Southern European know very well that ancient Greeks, ancient Italians and modern Southern Europeans were NOT 'mixed black' types. What total nonsense. That is foolish claims blacks make to try steal our European identity. Southern Europeans are white, our ancestors were white, and as ancient remains from Southern Europe clearly show they had as little to NO Sub Saharan African admixture as modern Europeans do. Anyone who is Southern European and knows many Southern Europeans wouldn't be going around making such ridiculous claims that Southern Euros can pass for 'blacks' when we clearly DO NOT. This is what Southern Europeans look like, as white as all other Europeans...that's why its ease for Southern European police to track down all those none white immigrants, cause Blacks and other none whites stick out in Southern Europe like flies in white milk:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqzMzQ1egkk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QlEQthwvJQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4ML9Se11lQ

That's why the Greek Police and other Southern Euro police have an easy time picking up all those none white immigrants from the Middle East, Africa and Asia, because as the reporter in the English clip below states none whites stick out in Greece and Southern Europe are easy pickings for the Police to spot in European countries that are 99% European aka white:

'Here in the Athens its dark skin that is attracting police officers who were given a mandate to stop and take anyone they suspect is illegal immigrants in for questioning."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YTDGpwO3KU

I explained this in my other post to you.
I am not claiming that Greeks have more African admixture compared with other Europeans.

* Europeans as a whole show more black admixture compared with other continents.
* The genetic distance between Sub-Saharan Africa and Europe is lower than any other continent.
The study suggests that the lower genetic distance between Europe and Africa can be explained by genetic admixture.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_admixture_in_Europe
Meaning, there is some evidence of children between Africans and Europeans over the years.
Why? Because Europe is closer to Africa so there is more opportunity for Europeans and blacks to have children together.


Europeans as a whole show to have as little to NO black admixture as all other none Africans. That is why Europeans, cluster as far away from Sub Saharan Africans as all other none black groups do. Any suppose 'black' admixture in Europeans is due to North African admixture who have some black admixture, i.e. INDIRECTLY, and not due to any suppose 'intermixing' between Europeans and blacks. Read:

"All non-African populations are more closely related to each other (i.e. short genetic distance) than they are to African populations. This is consistent with a founder effect of the non-African population in that only a few individuals participated in the initial out of Africa migration. The largest genetic distances observed are between Africa and Oceania and between Africa and the Americas. This is consistent with the isolation by distance and serial founder effects.
A 2009 autosomal study by Moorjani et al. that used between 500K and 1.5 Million SNPs estimated that the proportion of sub-Saharan African ancestry is 2.4% in Spain, and 1.9% in Greece. According to the authors, this is consistent in the case of Spain, with the historically known movement of individuals of North African ancestry into Iberia, although it is possible that this estimate also reflects a wider range of mixture times.[45]"

Europeans have ZERO to less then 3% of Sub Saharan african admixture. So this nonsense that such amount makes Europeans 'mixed' or 'close' to blacks is ridiculous.

* I am claiming that Heracles could have had some African admixture in his background (just as Dwayne Johnson does).


And your claim is wrong because Greeks do not have African admixture in their background, so as a Greek Heracles would NOT have had any African admixture.

1. The women's faces are white.
2. The figure of Heracles is not a clear racial type.
I never claimed that Heracles was 100% black or that he clearly looked black.
- I was claiming that the real Heracles could be mixed race just as Dwayne Johnson is mixed race.


Your claim is wrong because the real Heracles was not mixed, and he most certainly did not look black in any of those vases. And as it was already explained to you that is Athenian black and red figure vases, the figures typically were applied with a slip that turned black during firing, while the background was left the color of the clay. As it was explained even the GOAT and Flowers turned black. These type of vases were not depicting racially black people, especially given the clear Caucasian features on the figures.

I never said that Heracles was black.
I said it was possible that Heracles could be of mixed ancestry.


Heracles was not of 'mixed' ancestry. Ancient remains of ancient Greeks show them to be NOT mixed with blacks and the same goes with modern Greeks. Greeks were and still are Europeans aka white people, hence why they carry less then 1% to ZERO black admixture.

You are repeating information which is not useful.
The statues you mention come from the end of Ancient Greek history.
The vases are the earliest images from Ancient Greek culture.


I'm repeating information that is accurate. The statues I mention come form ancient Greece, and so do those vases that clearly show a Caucasian people and NOT blacks or 'mixed' blacks or whatever other dubious identity you want to give to clearly a European aka white people.

Otis passed for black. I'm an older guy. I met him. I know.


No Otis did not pass for a black, he was a confused white dude who wished he was black because he hung out with blacks.

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to psteve;

"That still doesn't make Greece near Egypt.'

The distance between Crete/Rhodes to Alexandria is about 600 kilometers. Not that far, about 3-4 days by ancient ship.
http://www.csun.edu/~hcfll004/travel2.html

Odysseus was able to travel these distances.

"the real Heracles was not mixed"

Without the DNA of Heracles, that claim can never be proven.

"the proportion of sub-Saharan African ancestry is 2.4% in Spain, and 1.9% in Greece.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_admixture_in_Europe

1.9% does not = zero percent.

There is sub-Saharan African ancestry in the Greek population. But that number is an average of the total sampled population.
An individual (including Heracles) could have a higher percentage admixture.

"a European aka white people."

A "white" person can have a percentage of sub-Saharan African ancestry. The DNA shows this to be true.
And that percentage would vary with the individual.

"No Otis did not pass for a black..."

He sure did. He fit in just fine with the rest of his band (who were all black) when I saw him.

BB ;-)

it's just in my opinion - imo -

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The distance between Crete/Rhodes to Alexandria is about 600 kilometers. Not that far, about 3-4 days by ancient ship.
http://www.csun.edu/~hcfll004/travel2.html

Odysseus was able to travel these distances.


That time frame was during Roman times and only under GOOD conditions. Adverse winds could also play havoc with this. Most earlier ship travel was done via coastal regions and took much longer since as I said the distance isn't close.

Without the DNA of Heracles, that claim can never be proven.


Nonsense. Heracles was Greek and as a Greek, DNA does prove he sure as heck was not some 'mixed' black.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_admixture_in_Europe

1.9% does not = zero percent.

There is sub-Saharan African ancestry in the Greek population. But that number is an average of the total sampled population.
An individual (including Heracles) could have a higher percentage admixture.


Nonsense yet again. Greeks as a whole and an individual including Heracles have nearly NONE existing to ZERO Sub Saharan African admixture. Hence why Greeks do not cluster close to blacks. Heck Northeast Africans have more Eurasian admixture then Greeks do Sub Saharan but I don't see blacks running around claiming Northeast Africans aren't black.

Less then 1.9% to ZERO Sub Saharan African admixture in Greek population means that Sub Saharan African admixture plays NO part on the genetic makeup of Greeks or how Greeks look since it doesn't exist. In fact most Europeans have more Neanderthal
admixture then they do Sub Saharan African admixture but no one is claiming Europeans are Neanderthals.

A "white" person can have a percentage of sub-Saharan African ancestry. The DNA shows this to be true.
And that percentage would vary with the individual.


A white person is white because he/she does not have Sub Saharan African ancestry. Blacks trying to change this fact just so they can connect themselves to Europeans aka white people based upon nothing but modern politically correct BS doesn't change this fact.

He sure did. He fit in just fine with the rest of his band (who were all black) when I saw him.


No he did not pass for black. He was an identity confused white dude who wished he was black.

Like I said, blacks stick out in Greece like black flies in white milk. That's why the Greek Police have an easy time picking up all those black African immigrants, because as the reporter in the English clip below states none whites stick out in Greece and are easy pickings for the Greek Police to spot in a European country that is 99% European aka white:

'Here in the Athens its dark skin that is attracting police officers who were given a mandate to stop and take anyone they suspect is illegal immigrants in for questioning."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YTDGpwO3KU

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his from the same clown who tried to pass off South Asians as "Greeks". Hilarious!

Hercules lineages are European, he was never depicted as a Sub Saharan African. The fact that you took your nonsense from an online Afrocentric clownish site only shows how foolish you are.
Hercules was never depicted as "black" by ancient sources, and he sure as heck does not have ne gro features in any of those vases that foolish Afrocentric site you posted from. Here are actual depictions of Hercules from ancient times, anyone with perfect vision can see he clearly does not have black features and looks like the white dude he is.


You are a desperate moron with an agenda. I get it. You, as a self-identified Greek, is seeking full validation and acceptance, and in order to gain that, you must refute your marginalized identity as an "ethnic" white.
I get that.

NOTHING on that website is dishonest. Those IMAGES are taken from Harvard university Press's Blacks in Western Art collection, which the university is currently hosting online (based on its book series of the same name). The images are neither fabricated or altered. They are, as they were created, hundreds and thousands of years ago. The website is simply a collection/index of images of black people as they were portrayed in European society, including Greece, throughout history.

Courtesy of Harvard University: http://www.imageoftheblack.com/about.html


Secondly. You said that I tried to pass off South Asians as Greek? No, you pathetic a$$. Russell Peters, an Indian-Canadian comedian JOKED about being mistaken for Italian/Greek when he traveled to the Mediterranean. You are disingenuous.

You have issues with the depiction of Herakles as black in the vase? Take it up with Harvard University and its collection, assessed by art historians and other people who know.

As I will repeat. You're clearly desperate to prove how lily white the Greeks are. Well, take it up with the countless white people who describe Greeks as dark, ethnic, and "tanned" instead of spamming these boards with your desperate nonsense.





Beauty will save the world--Dostoevsky.

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The only desperate fool around here with an agenda is YOU, Afrocentric clown. You are SO desperate to make Greeks into 'none whites' that you'd post any BS and lies you find on line including from that idiotic online Afrocentric blog that even claims "ancient black people" in BRITAIN. You and your ilk are pathetic idiots.

As it was explained to you already, Hercules lineages are European, he was never depicted as a Sub Saharan African and he was never connected to any blacks. He was white, you dingbat. The fact that you took your nonsense from an online Afrocentric clownish site only shows how far your delusions will go in your pathetic attempt to spread any misinformation to promote your lies.

Hercules was never depicted as "black" in any ancient vases, and he sure as heck does not have ne gro features in any of those vases that foolish Afrocentric site you posted from. Here are actual depictions of Hercules from ancient times, anyone with perfect vision can see he clearly does not have black features and looks like the white dude he is.
http://www2.cnr.edu/home/bmcmanus/nessus.jpg
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/Herakles/Hpix/1990.24.0387.jpeg
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/Herakles/Hpix/1990.34.0590.jpeg

Harvard University and its collection, assessed by art historians and other people who know never have claimed Hercules as 'black'. Only delusional Afrocentrics like you make such claims.

You got caught trying to pass off a South Asians as a 'Greeks', you liar. Countless of white people see Greeks as white since that is what Greeks are WHITE. Its none whites like your who are clearly desperate to "prove" that Greeks aren't white promote whatever anti-white and anti-European agenda you have.

Greeks are white. That's why the Greek Police have an easy time picking up all those none white immigrants from the Middle East, Africa and Asia, because as the reporter in the English clip below states none whites stick out in Greece and are easy pickings for the Greek Police to spot in a country that is 99% European aka white, skatokefale:

'Here in the Athens its dark skin that is attracting police officers who were given a mandate to stop and take anyone they suspect is illegal immigrants in for questioning."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YTDGpwO3KU

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@Psteve. You are a troll. Freaking hilarious. . Losing your mind in a desperate attempt to prove the "lily whiteness' of the Greeks. Ha!

Greeks are Europeans and therefore classified as white. Sure. But, to pretend there are no physical differences between Greeks and Scandinavians/Anglo-Germans is pathetic. Those groups clearly see a difference between them and the Greeks.

Whether you want to accept it or not, Greeks are seen as "ethnic" whites.

La! You are desperately crazy. Harvard University's The Image of the Black in Western Art collection (from which the POC in medieval Europe gets its images, including the Herakles image), isn't good enough for you.

Yes, I am laughing at you...hard.


Beauty will save the world--Dostoevsky.

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You are an Afrocentric troll, desperate to connect yourself to our European cultures, heritages and myths. Yes Greeks are white something you obviously can't stand, hence your pathetic attempt to claim Greeks are 'not white' when Greeks as European are clearly white.

Herakles was never depicted as black and was never connected to any Sub Saharan Africans. He is a European character a white dude as ancient depictions of statues and vases clearly show a CAUCASIAN guy and not some guy with ne gro like features. Go cry in your Afrocentric soup, dingbat. Hail hail the Great European aka white dude Herakles, that makes even none whites want to claim this European hero.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/romans/images/roman_religion_herc ules.jpg
http://www.theoi.com/image/M12.1Kerberos.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/Herakles_strangling _snakes_Louvre_G192.jpg
http://www.ancientmoons.com/imagesgiants/hercules.jpg

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@pSteve

No black people in Britain, right? A black Briton, circa 250 AD:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-sussex-25962183


Beauty will save the world--Dostoevsky.

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Black people were an anomaly in Britain back then. That's not a 'black' Briton. Most of the skeletons remains found in Britain are of Celtic and Anglo-Saxon, not Sub Saharan Africans. This token 'black' is from the same crew that fooled the world with the Piltdown man, dingbat. HA! Thanks for proven my point you are an Afrocentric clown desperate to connect yourself to Europeans that you'd even claim blacks in North Europe.

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Black people were an anomaly in Britain back then. That's not a 'black' Briton. Most of the skeletons remains found in Britain are of Celtic and Anglo-Saxon, not Sub Saharan Africans.


I see you clearly have reading comprehension issues, as well as being a psychotic, desperate troll.

First you said there were no black people in Britain (you said it, so it must be true ), and now you say, they were there, but were an anomaly (PS. the forensic expert pointed out, it is not unusual to find black African remains in Britain).

Considering the people making these claims are KNOWLEDGEABLE, and they come from credible sources, who've been studying these issues for years (Harvard University scholars, the BBC, archaeologists, anthropologists, etc), I will take THEIR words over yours.

You're a little, pathetic, dark-skinned Greek man trolling message boards with spam about the lily whiteness of Greeks. Hilarious...and sad, too. Angry that people see Greeks as dark, "ethnic" whites, then take it up with those people-- the Anglo, Germanic, Scandinavians.

Readings: If you care to expand your narrow mind when it comes to race/ethnicity

1. Blacks in Antiquity: Ethiopians in the Greco-Roman Experience: http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674076266
Along with invaluable reference notes, Mr. Snowden has included over 140 illustrations which depict the Negro as the Greeks and Romans conceived of him in mythology and religion and observed him in a number of occupations—as servant, diplomat, warrior, athlete, and performer, among others.

2.The Image of the Black in Western Art: http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674052710
The new edition of From the Pharaohs to the Fall of the Roman Empire offers a comprehensive look at the fascinating and controversial subject of the representation of black people in the ancient world.


Beauty will save the world--Dostoevsky.

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I see you clearly have reading comprehension issues, as well as being a psychotic, desperate troll.


Says the ignoramus who is so desperate to claim Greeks as 'not white' that you even posted pics of South Asians and tried to pass them off as 'Greek'. retard.

First you said there were no black people in Britain (you said it, so it must be true ), and now you say, they were there, but were an anomaly (PS. the forensic expert pointed out, it is not unusual to find black African remains in Britain).

Considering the people making these claims are KNOWLEDGEABLE, and they come from credible sources, who've been studying these issues for years (Harvard University scholars, the BBC, archaeologists, anthropologists, etc), I will take THEIR words over yours.


That's because there weren't black people in Britain, you dope. Most of the ancient skeletons remains found in Britain are of Celtic and Anglo-Saxon origins, not Sub Saharan Africans because black people were an anomaly in Britain back then. This token 'black' is from the same crew that fooled the world with the Piltdown man, dingbat. Thanks for proven my point you are a delusional clown that you'd even claim blacks in North Europe.

You're a little, pathetic, dark-skinned Greek man trolling message boards with spam about the lily whiteness of Greeks. Hilarious...and sad, too. Angry that people see Greeks as dark, "ethnic" whites, then take it up with those people-- the Anglo, Germanic, Scandinavians.


Anglo, Germanic, Scandinavians etc see Greeks as white. Its only retards like you who try to claim otherwise for whatever agenda you carry...then you come to Greece and the Greek police pick you up for your dark skin as they do all those other Africans, Asians and Middle Eastern dark skinned immigrants that stick out like flies in white milk in a country that is 99% European aka white.

'Here in the Athens its dark skin that is attracting police officers who were given a mandate to stop and take anyone they suspect is illegal immigrants in for questioning."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YTDGpwO3KU


Readings: If you care to expand your narrow mind when it comes to race/ethnicity

1. Blacks in Antiquity: Ethiopians in the Greco-Roman Experience: http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674076266
Along with invaluable reference notes, Mr. Snowden has included over 140 illustrations which depict the Negro as the Greeks and Romans conceived of him in mythology and religion and observed him in a number of occupations—as servant, diplomat, warrior, athlete, and performer, among others.


Hahaha! Out of all the Thousands upon Thousands of ancient Greek and Roman artifacts and illustrations, the fact that Snowden only found 140 that depict blacks only shows how little contact ancient Greeks and Romans had with blacks and how very really they thought of them. In fact the site you provided even states as much.

Although evidence indicated that the alien dark- and black-skinned people were of varied tribal and geographic origins, the Greeks and Romans classified many of them as Ethiopians.
The author dispels unwarranted generalizations about the Ethiopians, contending that classical references to them were neither glorifications of a mysterious people nor caricatures of rare creatures.
Presenting an exceptionally comprehensive historical description of the first major encounter of Europeans with dark and black Africans, Mr. Snowden found that the black man in a predominantly white society was neither romanticized nor scorned.


So not only does the site you provided identifies ancient Greeks and Romans as white societies and states how alien aka not common blacks were to ancient Greeks and Romans, but that the ancient Greeks and Romans didn't glorify blacks, as some Afrocentrics like to wrongly claims, and neither did they scorn them, they just viewed blacks as an alien people that they didn't have much in common with, as I've been saying all along.


2.The Image of the Black in Western Art: http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674052710
The new edition of From the Pharaohs to the Fall of the Roman Empire offers a comprehensive look at the fascinating and controversial subject of the representation of black people in the ancient world.


What does that have anything to do with what is being discussed? Nothing. All that talks about is how blacks were depicted in Western Art, peebrain.

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You're really an uneducated troll, aren't you?

Can you please link to the thread in which I posted "images" of South Asians in order to pass them off as white?

You need to learn to read properly. The tidbit on Snowden's work suggests the OPPOSITE of what you understand it to mean. Snowden's work--the write up you failed to comprehend--says the Ancient Greeks had more frequent contacts with blacks than previously believed--that the blacks were not seen as "rare/exotic" creatures to them.

Oh, and just because you're so desperately pathetic, I will repeat. Anglo-Scandinavian-Germans see Greeks as "ethnic" and not true whites. You know that--which explains your bizarre spamming on the Internet.

PS. Greece is a 2nd world country at best. It's in turmoil with a failing economy--suggesting that the intelligence of the Ancient Greeks was not passed on generationally. I'll pass over visiting Greece, thank you.


Beauty will save the world--Dostoevsky.

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You're really an uneducated troll, aren't you?


Being an uneducated buffoon is your m.o.

Can you please link to the thread in which I posted "images" of South Asians in order to pass them off as white?


Stop lying. You did too try to pass off South Asians as Greeks.

You need to learn to read properly. The tidbit on Snowden's work suggests the OPPOSITE of what you understand it to mean. Snowden's work--the write up you failed to comprehend--says the Ancient Greeks had more frequent contacts with blacks than previously believed--that the blacks were not seen as "rare/exotic" creatures to them.


Ha! Wrong. Snowden's finds confirm what I said, and state the OPPOSITE of your fallacies. Snowden only was able to find 140 depictions of blacks Out of all the Thousands upon Thousands of ancient Greek and Roman artifacts and illustrations, that shows how little contact ancient Greeks had with blacks and how ALIEN aka foreign they saw them. In fact the site you provided even states as much.

Although evidence indicated that the alien dark- and black-skinned people were of varied tribal and geographic origins, the Greeks and Romans classified many of them as Ethiopians.
The author dispels unwarranted generalizations about the Ethiopians, contending that classical references to them were neither glorifications of a mysterious people nor caricatures of rare creatures.
Presenting an exceptionally comprehensive historical description of the first major encounter of Europeans with dark and black Africans, Mr. Snowden found that the black man in a predominantly white society was neither romanticized nor scorned.


So not only does the site you provided identifies ancient Greeks as a white society and states how alien aka not common blacks were to ancient Greeks, but that the ancient Greeks didn't glorify blacks, as some Afrocentrics like to wrongly claims, and they just viewed blacks as an alien people that they didn't have much in common with, as the bolded red highlighted segments from your own sources confirm what I've been saying all along.

Oh, and just because you're so desperately pathetic, I will repeat. Anglo-Scandinavian-Germans see Greeks as "ethnic" and not true whites. You know that--which explains your bizarre spamming on the Internet.


It is you who is desperate to 'prove' that Greeks aren't 'white' when even a source your stupidass provided states Greeks are a white society.

PS. Greece is a 2nd world country at best. It's in turmoil with a failing economy--suggesting that the intelligence of the Ancient Greeks was not passed on generationally.


Greece was never like this, its only since it entered the EU and was FORCED to let in all those 3rd world immigrants that its started going down the tubes. This was Athens before the 3rd world immigrants started invading.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lktZE4rYRaU

Now look at Athens with all those 3rd world illegals invading the country. They are destroying it, as they are doing most European cities they are infesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8gzIgGTuo8

I'll pass over visiting Greece, thank you.


Tell that to your "black bros" who keep drowning like rats trying to reach Greece and put a strain on the system.

'Here in the Athens its dark skin that is attracting police officers who were given a mandate to stop and take anyone they suspect is illegal immigrants in for questioning."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YTDGpwO3KU

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Anglo, Germanic, Scandinavians etc see Greeks as white. Its only retards like you who try to claim otherwise for whatever agenda you carry...then you come to Greece and the Greek police pick you up for your dark skin as they do all those other Africans, Asians and Middle Eastern dark skinned immigrants that stick out like flies in white milk in a country that is 99% European aka white.

This is what happens when an Anglo-American white-supremacist meets a Greek priest:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/10/alexios-marakis-assaulted_n_3 53022.html

...He mistakens the Greek priest for an "Arab terrorist".

Greeks are clearly more closely related to other Eastern Mediterranean populations (e.g. Albanians, Alexandrians, Armenians, Jews, Turkish, Lebanese, Sicilians, Tunisians, etc.) rather than Northern Europeans.


"WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK I AM???!!!!!"

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Most Greeks do not look like bearded priests and that's one idiot who would have attacked anyone who had a long beard. Even most white supremacists see Greeks and all other Southern Europeans as white since that is what they are. For the record Greeks are more related to other Europeans then none Europeans. And Mediterraneans are part of the white race.

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Southern Europeans, yes. Northern Europeans, no. Genetic studies demonstrate that Greeks are closer to non-European populations in the Caucasus, Asia Minor, and Levant, than they are to Northern Europeans.

As for the "white race", the definition of that term changes with the times. In Australia, for example, Greeks and Italians are classified as non-white to this day, but they are instead lumped together with Middle-Easterners as "wogs". This was also true in America, which didn't classify Greeks or Italians as "white" until relatively modern times. And nowadays, America even includes Middle-Easterners and North Africans in its definition of the "white" race.



"WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK I AM???!!!!!"

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Incorrect. Greeks and other Southern Europeans were always viewed as white in the States because as Europeans they are white. Jim Crow laws never applied towards them, as whites they could vote, hold public offices, marry other white people and own land, things that none whites were not allowed to do.

Wrong. Greeks cluster closer to all other white people and not close to none Europeans. As the scientific article I posted in another post proves all Europeans are closely related to one another. Mediterraneans are white people, the term was created by Europeans for other white race categories and it also included Celtic types like the Irish.

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bs.

greeks and italians look latin. the rock looks latin. fits. end of story.

"laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone." - Dae-su Oh

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Latins and Latin is a European term for European people aka whites. The Rock looks like a Caucasian in this movie and he played white characters in movies before including the white father in the movie The Snitch.

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bs.

just ask a republican if he would consider a samoan white. xD

"laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone." - Dae-su Oh

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Samaons aren't Europeans. But the Rock is multiracial and has features that are ambiguous and allows him to play different races including Caucasians and he played white characters in movies before including the white father in the movie The Snitch.

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well, there you have it.

"laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone." - Dae-su Oh

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Greeks and other Southern Europeans were always viewed as white in the States because as Europeans they are white. Jim Crow laws never applied towards them, as whites they could vote, hold public offices, marry other white people and own land, things that none whites were not allowed to do.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/17/weekinreview/17roberts.html

"A century or so ago, the Irish Catholics, Italians, Eastern Europeans and even some Germans who arrived in droves in the United States were not universally considered white. (Much earlier, Benjamin Franklin feared that his fellow white Pennsylvanians would be overwhelmed by swarthy Germans, who “will soon so out number us, that all the advantages we have will not in my opinion be able to preserve our language, and even our government will become precarious”).

“In the minds of many Americans of influence and position at the time, the post-1890 immigrants — Jews, Italians, various Slavic groups, Greeks — were probably as foreign as ‘Hispanics’ are today, and considered, as Hispanics are today, as in some degree ‘nonwhite,’ ” said Nathan Glazer, professor emeritus of sociology at Harvard, who wrote “Beyond the Melting Pot” with Daniel Patrick Moynihan.
"

Greeks cluster closer to all other white people and not close to none Europeans. As the scientific article I posted in another post proves all Europeans are closely related to one another.

http://greek-dna-sub-saharan-myth.org/images/genetics/villena-turkish- fig2.png

Greeks cluster closer to Turks and Armenians they do to Western European populations (besides Italians). And Cretan Greeks are even closer to Turks and Armenians than they are to Italians.

Mediterraneans are white people, the term was created by Europeans for other white race categories and it also included Celtic types like the Irish.

This is how the "Mediterranean race" was classified a century ago:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4a/Passing_of_th e_Great_Race_-_Map_4.jpg/1280px-Passing_of_the_Great_Race_-_Map_4.jpg

The "Mediterranean race" included Southern Europe, the Middle East, North Africa, and some parts of Britain & Ireland.


"WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK I AM???!!!!!"

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These dubious attempts in trying to make Greeks as none white and none European are hilarious. 

"A century or so ago, the Irish Catholics, Italians, Eastern Europeans and even some Germans who arrived in droves in the United States were not universally considered white. (Much earlier, Benjamin Franklin feared that his fellow white Pennsylvanians would be overwhelmed by swarthy Germans, who “will soon so out number us, that all the advantages we have will not in my opinion be able to preserve our language, and even our government will become precarious”). 

“In the minds of many Americans of influence and position at the time, the post-1890 immigrants — Jews, Italians, various Slavic groups, Greeks — were probably as foreign as ‘Hispanics’ are today, and considered, as Hispanics are today, as in some degree ‘nonwhite,’ ” said Nathan Glazer, professor emeritus of sociology at Harvard, who wrote “Beyond the Melting Pot” with Daniel Patrick Moynihan."


That's more fallacies from Marxist Jews like Glazer and their modern liberal Leftist Politically Correct Lackeys like Moynihan who have been brainwashing the sheeply with anti-white rhetoric for decades, and their liberal propaganda can clearly be seen when they stupidly try to push the lie that being Hispanic means "none white" when in fact there are millions of Hispanics who ARE white, just go ask Carmen Diaz and Vicente Fox Quesada. 

For the record, the above quote was not because Greeks, Italians and other Southern Europeans were not viewed as white but cause they were not WASPs. As the quote posted above clearly shows that even GERMANS and IRISH as well as EASTERN Europeans were viewed the same way as Southern Europeans, and this was not because Greeks and other Europeans were not viewed as white or were not white but because they were not WASP. The reality of the matter is Greeks and all other Europeans were white and were seen as white since Jim Crow laws did not apply to them. They could vote, own land, hold public office and MARRY other white people, things that None Whites were never allowed to do and thing that Marxist Jews like Glazer and their Leftist PC Liberal Kook buddies like Moynihan can't give a logical answer to when their anti-white rhetorics are challenged....oh yeah they "weren't viewed" as white but could MARRY other white people during an era when it was AGAINST THE LAW for None Whites to Marry Whites...oh yeah THAT makes "sense" ...Not!

http://greek-dna-sub-saharan-myth.org/images/genetics/villena-turkish- fig2.png 

Greeks cluster closer to Turks and Armenians they do to Western European populations (besides Italians). And Cretan Greeks are even closer to Turks and Armenians than they are to Italians.


Turks are more European then not since Turkey has been colonized by Europeans since ancient times. In fact Ataturk, the "Father" of modern Turkey was of European ancestry, Slavic and Albanian to be exact. I also suggest looking up who and what Galatia was. Also the groups that Greeks cluster the closest to are other Europeans and Caucasian groups, even in that Chart you posted they show Greeks with other Europeans. Even the guy from the link that chart came from states Greeks cluster the closest to all other Europeans:

Greeks group with other southern (Italian), and southeastern (Balkan) European peoples in a Mediterranean Europe cluster [42,43,44].


Here are more charts from the site you took the first one from that clearly cluster Greeks with all other Europeans:
http://greek-dna-sub-saharan-myth.org/images/genetics/cavalli-sforza-h istory-p82-fig235.gif
http://greek-dna-sub-saharan-myth.org/images/genetics/ayub-fig2.png
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_8sY9bx8acNM/SXY1_svkjeI/AAAAAAAAARc/c9zVKvXI Y8c/s1600-h/Hammer_2000_Jew_Arab_Ychromosome.png

Like I said Greeks cluster closer to all other white people. As the scientific article I posted in another post and the charts above prove all Europeans are closely related to one another.

This is how the "Mediterranean race" was classified a century ago: 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4a/Passing_of_th e_Great_Race_-_Map_4.jpg/1280px-Passing_of_the_Great_Race_-_Map_4.jpg

The "Mediterranean race" included Southern Europe, the Middle East, North Africa, and some parts of Britain & Ireland.


Yeah they were classified as part of the white races a century ago and are still classified as part of the white races categories today, as I originally have stated. For the record that chart you posted is of European Races aka white Races which proves my point that Mediterraneans were and still are part of the white race category. According to Huxley:

1 The Xanthrochroic type (No. 6) is defined as, "a third type of mankind is exhibited by the greater part of the population of Central Europe. These are the Xanthrochroi, or 'fair whites.' ... On the south and west this type comes into contact and mixes with the 'Melanochroi,' or ' dark whites,' while on the north and east it becomes mingled with the people of the Mongoloid type."—p. 408.
 I have termed Melanochroi, or dark whites under its best form this type is exhibited by many Irishmen, Welshmen, and Bretons, by Spaniards, South Italians, Greeks, Armenians, Arabs, and high-caste Brahmins."


Come on I'd love to see someone now claim the Irish and Britons aren't white cause they too belong to the Mediterranean race.  

By the late nineteenth century, terms like Nordics and Mediterraneans were created by Europeans for the white races: Huxley's Xanthochroi group was named the "Nordic" race, while his Melanochroi was named the "Mediterranean" race. So like I originally have stated the term Mediterranean was created by Europeans to categorize the white races and in the Mediterranean white race category it also included Celtic types like the Irish and Scots as well as Western and Northern Euros like the Britons.

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There's one huge flaw to your entire argument: What about the Greeks of West Asia and North Africa? If you think they were "white" too, then you're wrong. The Greeks who lived in places like Asia Minor (modern Turkey), Syria, Libya and Egypt were hardly what we'd call "white" today.

When the Romans conquered Egypt, for example, they noted how most of the Greeks living there, in cities like Alexandria and Fayyum, were virtually indistinguishable from the native Egyptians in appearance. Initially, the Romans just referred to Egypt's Greeks as "Egyptians" because of their appearance, but later on, they distinguished them from the native population through language (because of the obvious differences between Indo-European and Afro-Asiatic languages).

Don't believe me? Then just check out the Fayyum paintings of Egypt's Greek population, the only realistic colour paintings that we have of any ancient Greek population, and you'll see they look no different to today's Egyptian people, but with Greek names and Greek clothing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fayum_mummy_portraits

In other words, it is entirely plausible for Dwayne Johnson to play a Greek, because many of the Greeks living in the ancient Near East looked just look today's Middle-Eastern people. Johnson would not have looked out-of-place among the Greeks of Libya or Egypt, for example. And besides, he had played a Middle-Easterner before in The Scorpion King, which most people didn't have an issue with.


"WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK I AM???!!!!!"

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The only flaw around here are some people trying to wrongly make Greeks as "not white" when Greeks are clearly white people. The Greeks living in Asia Minor and North Africa were as white as the White South Africans living in South Africa are today. For the record the Romans never called Greeks "Egyptians", and neither did the Romans make any claims that the Greeks living in Egypt were not white or that they didn't look white because the Romans described the Greeks as white. Also anyone who knows about that historical period knows that Greeks rarely intermix with native populations, who the Greeks held as the lowest among the citizens they ruled over. In fact Greeks ruled as an Apartheid state long before Whites in South Africa did. In fact the Romans and other ancient sources described Greeks as white as all other Europeans, such as Adamantius, an Alexandrian Jewish physician and scientist, wrote in his Physiognominica that “wherever the Hellenic and Ionic race is, we see tall men of fairly broad and straight build, with complexions similar to all others in the white race ranging from brunettes to blondes. Oh and the Fayyum paintings show Caucasians that was made up of Greeks, Romans, and Egyptians. Johnson was made to look like a Caucasian in this movie because playing a Greek character meant he was made to look like a white dude, that is why they even had him wear a long haired straight brown wig.

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When I Google your "Adamantius" quote, all I get is a few white-supremacist websites, so it's obviously a fake. Besides, the concept of a "white race" (or "black race", for that matter) was invented in modern colonialist times, which makes your quote sound even more fake.

Either way, if you actually believe Hellenistic Egypt was a racial "Apartheid state" (a concept that didn't exist until modern colonialist times), or that the Romans viewed Egypt's Greeks as "white", then I'm afraid you're wrong on both counts:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fayum_mummy_portraits

"By the Roman period, much of the "Greek" population of Faiyum was made-up of either Hellenized Egyptians or people of mixed Egyptian-Greek origins.[15]"

"According to Walker, the early Ptolemaic Greek colonists married local women and adopted Egyptian religious beliefs, and by Roman times, their descendants were viewed as Egyptians by the Roman rulers, despite their own self-perception of being Greek.[19]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt_(Roman_province)

"The social structure in Egypt under the Romans was both unique and complicated. On the one hand, the Romans continued to use many of the same organizational tactics that were in place under the Ptolemies. At the same time, the Romans saw the Greeks in Egypt as "Egyptians", an idea that both the native Egyptians and Greeks would have rejected.[4]"

And finally, the Greeks in the Fayyum paintings look more like what we'd today call "Arabs" rather than what we'd today call "whites". Does this Greek boy called Eutyches look more "white" or "Arab" to you?

http://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3002/2505579522_10bb542554_z.jpg?zz=1

Or what about this Greek man from 1st-century Roman Egypt?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/Egyptian_-_Mummy_Po rtrait_of_a_Man_-_Walters_323.jpg

Even if the Greeks who lived in Europe were "white", it's a stretch to say that the Greeks living in the Middle East were also "white". Greek tribal identity was not defined by skin colour, but by lineage (usually paternal), language, and culture, just like most tribal identities in pre-modern times.

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Most ancient texts are not on line. I suggest picking up Adamantius works because most ancient writings you won't find via google search. So yes Adamantius quote does exist and it is true. The concept of race existed in ancient times and ancient Greeks did distinguish different races.

Hellenistic Egypt was a racial "Apartheid state" and the Romans did view Egypt's Greeks as "white". It was ruled by a Greek elite minority who rarely intermixed with the local populations they ruled:

The Greeks who entered Egypt at that time mostly followed their own habits. There is evidence from Alexandria and other sites indicating that they practised the Greek tradition of cremation. This broadly reflects the general situation in Hellenistic Egypt, its rulers proclaiming themselves to be pharaohs but otherwise living in an entirely Hellenistic world, incorporating only very few local elements. Conversely, the Egyptians only slowly developed an interest in the Greek-Hellenic culture that dominated the East Mediterranean since the conquests of Alexander.

Alot of the Fayyum paintings showed a Caucasian population. Case in point:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/Fayum-34.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/Fayum-22.jpg
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5of8k1Bh01qm39ueo1_500.jpg
http://davidderrick.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/fayum.jpg
http://www.bible-archaeology.info/4.Fayu15.jpg
http://mathildasanthropologyblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/fay17.jpg
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/images/Ypatia.jpg
http://www.perankhgroup.com/fayum.jpg
http://31.media.tumblr.com/d422929dee02cd9da3f28c6bed4c336b/tumblr_mkv n27144e1ryfivao1_500.jpg
http://c300221.r21.cf1.rackcdn.com/unknown-fayum-mummy-portrait-of-a-y oung-woman-greco-roman-from-egypt-1367102383_org.jpg


I already told you the Fayyum paintings do not show only Greeks. They show Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, ect. Also a majority of them were not even Greek but Egyptians, ie Copts and Copts still look like most of the people in those portraits to this day. Greeks were but a minority in Egypt who rarely intermixed with the local populations they ruled. Read from the source you provided:

The dental morphology[20] of the Roman-period Faiyum mummies was also compared with that of earlier Egyptian populations, and was found to be "much more closely akin" to that of ancient Egyptians than to Greeks or other European populations.
It is not clear whether those depicted are of Egyptian, Greek or Roman origin, nor whether the portraits were commonly used by all ethnicities.


Do you also believe the racial type of none whites changes when they start to live in white countries or does such dubious one sided antiwhite rance change propaganda only apply for whites in diaspora? Of course Greeks who lived in the Middle East were white. That's like saying Greeks in modern diaspora aren't white, or that White South Africans aren't white; or that blacks who live in Western Nations stop being black once in diasora. Ones race doesn't change just because they aren't in their native homelands.

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Most ancient texts are not on line. I suggest picking up Adamantius works because most ancient writings you won't find via google search. So yes Adamantius quote does exist and it is true. The concept of race existed in ancient times and ancient Greeks did distinguish different races.

The Jewish writer Adamantius said no such thing. Here is how he described the Greeks in the 4th century CE:

http://dienekes.awardspace.com/articles/hellenes/

"Reproducing the passage in the original Greek reveals that the Greeks were moderately tall men (autarkôs megaloi andres), broader, i.e., not linear-bodied (euruteroi), with moderately firm flesh (sarkos krasin echontes metrian eupagesteran), lighter-skinned (leukoteroi tên chroan), with a medium-sized head (kephalên mesên to megethos), a strong neck(trachêlon eurôston), slightly-curly brown hair (trichôma hupoxanthon hapalôteron oulon praôs), a square face, i.e., with a broad jaw and not long (prosôpon tetragônon), narrow lips (cheilê lepta), straight nose (rhina orthên), liquid, “glad,” quick eyes full of light (ophthalmous hugrous charopous gorgous phôs polu echontas en heautois)."

Nowhere did he mention anything of a "white race", but on the contrary, he distinguished the Greeks from the fairer-skinned Celts and Scythians. Interestingly, the Scythians were Iranians, yet ancient sources usually describe the Scythians as being lighter-skinned than Greeks.

Hellenistic Egypt was a racial "Apartheid state" and the Romans did view Egypt's Greeks as "white". It was ruled by a Greek elite minority who rarely intermixed with the local populations they ruled:

Nowhere does your quote from the Fayyum article claim Hellenistic Egypt was a racial "Apartheid state", or that the Greeks didn't mix with Egyptians. Also, I already showed you two separate sourced articles pointing out the fact that Romans referred to Egypt's Greeks as "Egyptians". Like I already quoted to you from that same article above, much of the Greek settler population ended up marrying with native Egyptians. Why? I'll get to that later...

Alot of the Fayyum paintings showed a Caucasian population. Case in point:

If by "Caucasian", you mean "Middle-Eastern" looking, then sure. But if you mean "white" looking, then most of those people definitely do not look "white".

I already told you the Fayyum paintings do not show only Greeks. They show Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, ect. Also a majority of them were not even Greek but Egyptians, ie Copts and Copts still look like most of the people in those portraits to this day.

The majority of them were Greeks. This is obvious from the following facts: Only the elites could afford to have their own paintings in pre-modern times, most of Fayyum's elites were Greeks, the paintings that have names are Greek rather than Egyptian, and they all wear Greco-Roman clothing. Most of these people identified themselves as Greeks, regardless of what they looked like.

Do you also believe the racial type of none whites changes when they start to live in white countries or does such dubious one sided antiwhite rance change propaganda only apply for whites in diaspora? Of course Greeks who lived in the Middle East were white. That's like saying Greeks in modern diaspora aren't white, or that White South Africans aren't white; or that blacks who live in Western Nations stop being black once in diasora. Ones race doesn't change just because they aren't in their native homelands.

Here's an even better example: The Romani gypsies originated from Northern India many centuries ago, yet today they are partly white European. Why? Because most of the migrants were male, so the ones who couldn't marry fellow Romani females ended up marrying local white European females. Genetic evidence suggests the same thing, with a majority of paternal Y-DNA being Indian while the majority of maternal MT-DNA is European. This was usually the case for the majority of pre-modern migrations.

The majority of Greek settlers in Egypt were male, so the ones who couldn't marry Greek women ended up marrying Egyptian women. And due to the nature of paternal tribal affiliation, if your father is Greek, then you are Greek, regardless of who your mother is. After several generations of this, most of Egypt's Greek population ended up looking more like the native Egyptians than the Greeks from their ancestral lands.

This also later happened with the Turkish conquest of Greek lands. The Turks were originally mostly "Mongoloid" Central Asians, but because most of the Turkic conquerors were male, they married local "Caucasoid" women (including Greeks, Armenians, Syrians, Slavs, etc.), and now most Turkish people are genetically closer to Greeks and Armenians than they are to their Turkic ancestors from Central Asia.

This trend of mostly male migrations was the norm in pre-modern times. It wasn't until the significant improvement of transportation technology, and female rights, in the modern era that migrations brought along female numbers almost just as large as male numbers. The more of your own women there are, the less likely you are to mix with local women, thereby preserving your "race" in a new land. This was only made possible in the modern era.

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The Jewish writer Adamantius said no such thing. Here is how he described the Greeks in the 4th century CE:
http://dienekes.awardspace.com/articles/hellenes/
"Reproducing the passage in the original Greek reveals that the Greeks were moderately tall men (autarkôs megaloi andres), broader, i.e., not linear-bodied (euruteroi), with moderately firm flesh (sarkos krasin echontes metrian eupagesteran), lighter-skinned (leukoteroi tên chroan), with a medium-sized head (kephalên mesên to megethos), a strong neck(trachêlon eurôston), slightly-curly brown hair (trichôma hupoxanthon hapalôteron oulon praôs), a square face, i.e., with a broad jaw and not long (prosôpon tetragônon), narrow lips (cheilê lepta), straight nose (rhina orthên), liquid, “glad,” quick eyes full of light (ophthalmous hugrous charopous gorgous phôs polu echontas en heautois)."
Nowhere did he mention anything of a "white race", but on the contrary, he distinguished the Greeks from the fairer-skinned Celts and Scythians. Interestingly, the Scythians were Iranians, yet ancient sources usually describe the Scythians as being lighter-skinned than Greeks.


Jewish writer Adamantius does too state that Greeks were white. Pay close attention to what you just quoted: he uses the term LEUKOTEROI to describe Greeks, LEUKOI means white in Greek. Adamants' actual quote:

"leukoteroi tên chroan"

That translates to "Whiter in Color" in other words, Greeks were white.

Nowhere does your quote from the Fayyum article claim Hellenistic Egypt was a racial "Apartheid state", or that the Greeks didn't mix with Egyptians. Also, I already showed you two separate sourced articles pointing out the fact that Romans referred to Egypt's Greeks as "Egyptians". Like I already quoted to you from that same article above, much of the Greek settler population ended up marrying with native Egyptians. Why? I'll get to that later...


Who do you think made color the marker of identity? Greeks. The quote from the Fayyum article showed Hellenistic Egypt had a Greek elite that did not intermix with the local population they ruled and that Egyptians never accepted the Greeks as part of them but neither did the minority Greek population ever become part of the majority Egyptian population. Read:

"Though not reaching such levels, after about 300 BC Near Eastern society, started to develop notions of color identity. The spread of Hellenism after the conquest of Alexander the Great, introduced Greek black-white terms into the Near East. Conquest creates culture. In this regard the Hellenized additions to the Israelite scriptures (The New Testament) patriatic and rabbinic literature all differ significantly from their ancient inspirations. While color indifference diminished, the ancient legacy did not disappear completely but did influence subsequent Jewish and Muslim attitudes towards color identity." ~ Racism in the Modern World: Historical Perspectives on Cultural Transfer, by Manfred Berg, Simon Wendt

Hellenistic Egypt was a racial "Apartheid state". That's why Egyptians had constant uprising against their Foreign Greek Rulers. Anyone who knows anything about that time period knows that the Greeks held Egyptians as the lowest class citizens. Read:

"Although historians debate the amount of mobility possessed by indigenous Egyptians, Ptolemiac and consequent rule may have created a "colonial" system reminiscent of South African apartheid that discriminated against the none-Greek population."

I suggest reading Shaws "Gnomos of the Idios Logos" Hellenistic Egypt that describes the legal measures taken by the Greek ruling elite to prevent intermixing between Greeks and Egyptians and that also prevented the inheritance of property and citizenship. Egyptians even those who adapted Greek mannerisms could only rise so far. It was the Greek elite minority who ruled at the top and passed laws prohibiting intermix with the local population. Read:

"Under Ptolemaic rule, however, ceased to benefit the great mass of Egyptians. The Greeks practiced a cultured apartheid, based upon Hellenistic mannerism and speech. If an Egyptian wanted to succeed, he had to speak Greek and dress like a Greek. But even if he exchanged his loincloth from the loose tunics of Greek fashion, and adopted a Greek name, he could expect to find work only in the lower echelons of the Greek administration.
The xenophobic conquering Greeks lived separately from the mass of the Egyptian population in three main cities: Ptolemais, Naucratis and Alexandria. The Ptolemies primary interest in Egypt was profit. They had no compunction about pressing the native population into building and maintaining dikes. In the mids of plenty, the Egyptians sank into dire poverty."


If by "Caucasian", you mean "Middle-Eastern" looking, then sure. But if you mean "white" looking, then most of those people definitely do not look "white".


Those depictions show white people....or are you one of those who believes that white people means one has to look like a Nordic Northern Euro? so yes they most certainly did look Caucasian aka white.

The majority of them were Greeks. This is obvious from the following facts: Only the elites could afford to have their own paintings in pre-modern times, most of Fayyum's elites were Greeks, the paintings that have names are Greek rather than Egyptian, and they all wear Greco-Roman clothing. Most of these people identified themselves as Greeks, regardless of what they looked like.


No the majority of them were not Greek. They were Egyptians. There was a minority Greek elite who rarely intermixed with native populations, and a majority native Egyptian populations. That's why the majority of the Fayyum's remains tested showed to be similar to Egyptians and did not show genetic similarities to Greeks or other Europeans.

One could tell which ones were actual Greeks, cause they actually did look European. Case in point
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c6/Fayum-34.jpg/ 640px-Fayum-34.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Fayum_Portrai t_of_a_Boy_%28detail%29.jpg/640px-Fayum_Portrait_of_a_Boy_%28detail%29 .jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-mIB3eLrA9q4/UpCQsk_hhrI/AAAAAAAAb3w/fdmwLkHR zlE/s1600/IMG_2747.JPG

Here's an even better example: The Romani gypsies originated from Northern India many centuries ago, yet today they are partly white European. Why? Because most of the migrants were male, so the ones who couldn't marry fellow Romani females ended up marrying local white European females. Genetic evidence suggests the same thing, with a majority of paternal Y-DNA being Indian while the majority of maternal MT-DNA is European. This was usually the case for the majority of pre-modern migrations.


So according to you black Africans who move and start living in Western white countries, aren't black any more but become white? lol!

BTW your Romani gypsies example is a bad one because Romani rarely ever intermix with Europeans, hence why their genetic markers both maternal and paternal are overwhelmingly South Asian. They typical keep to themselves and have never really integrated into any of the European host countries they migrate to. That's why historically they are such easy foreign scapegoats for Europeans when things go wrong. Oh and by the way, Gypsies genetics, both their paternal Y-DNA and maternal MT-DNA are overwhelmingly South Asian, not European. Read:
 
"Researchers doing DNA analysis discovered that Romani populations carried large frequencies of particular Y chromosomes (inherited paternally) and mitochondrial DNA (inherited maternally) that otherwise exist only in populations from South Asia.
Autosomal data permits simultaneous analysis of multiple lineages, which can provide novel information about population history. According to a genetic study on autosomal data on Roma the source of Southasian Ancestry in Roma is North-West India. The two populations showing closest relatedness to Roma were Kashmiri Pandits and Sindhi. Kashmiri Pandits are Kashmiri Brahmins.[32] The classical and mtDNA genetic markers suggested the closest affinity of the Roma with Rajput and Sindhi populations from Rajasthan and the Punjab respectively.[33][34]
 
  
The majority of Greek settlers in Egypt were male, so the ones who couldn't marry Greek women ended up marrying Egyptian women. And due to the nature of paternal tribal affiliation, if your father is Greek, then you are Greek, regardless of who your mother is. After several generations of this, most of Egypt's Greek population ended up looking more like the native Egyptians than the Greeks from their ancestral lands.


Again genetic evidence disproves your claims because it shows Egyptians do not carry markers common in Greeks, meaning intermixing between Greeks and Egyptians weren't as common as some like to claim, hence why ancient remains of the Faiyam mummies show them genetically close to all other Egyptians but NOT close to Greeks or other Europeans. Read:

The dental morphology[20] of the Roman-period Faiyum mummies was also compared with that of earlier Egyptian populations, and was found to be "much more closely akin" to that of ancient Egyptians than to Greeks or other European populations.[21]
  
This also later happened with the Turkish conquest of Greek lands. The Turks were originally mostly "Mongoloid" Central Asians, but because most of the Turkic conquerors were male, they married local "Caucasoid" women (including Greeks, Armenians, Syrians, Slavs, etc.), and now most Turkish people are genetically closer to Greeks and Armenians than they are to their Turkic ancestors from Central Asia.


Only there is a little a problem wit your 'males being conquers and taking females from the conquered populations' theory: Turks show to have on their maternal lineages CENTRAL ASIAN TURKIC origins. Meanwhile over all most Anatolians show to have little to no Asiatic Turkic markers and to cluster closer to West Asians/Europeans.... meaning there was an elite minority Turkic ruling class that left it's genetic footprint in both paternal and maternal lineages, while the majority Anatolian native population show not to carry these markers. Read:

"Mergen et al. revealed that genetic structure of the mtDNAs in the Turkish population bears similarities to Turkic Central Asian populations. The neighbour-joining tree built from segment I sequences for Turkish and the other populations (French, Bulgarian, British, Finnish, Greek, German, Kazakhs, Uighurs and Kirghiz) indicated two poles. Turkic Central Asian populations, Turkish population and British population formed one pole, and European populations formed the other, which revealed Turkish population bears more similarities to Turkic Central Asian population and British people.[18]"

Overall, modern Turks are most related to neighbouring West Asian populations. A study looking into allele frequencies suggested that there was a lack of genetic relationship between contemporary Mongols and Turks, despite their linguistic and cultural relationship.[19] In addition, another study looking into HLA genes allele distributions indicated that Anatolians did not significantly differ from other Mediterranean populations.[10] Multiple studies suggested an elite dominance-driven linguistic replacement model to explain the adoption of Turkish language by Anatolian indigenous inhabitants.[1][7]"


The other problem with your theory is the fact that Greeks and Armenians do not show Central Asian Turkic genetic markers. Meaning genetics shows there are holes in your claims. See chart below:
  
What this means is that Turks still carry some genetic footprints from their conquering Turkic forefathers, that is the opposite of the Faiyam mummies who showed to carry NO European markers...Meaning intermixing was minimum to none in the Egyptian case hence why the mummies do not show similarities with their European conquerers, while Turks DO show genetic footprints similarity ties with the conquering Central Asian Turkic people even though they do also show overwhelmingly similarities with mostly West Asians and Europeans.

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Jewish writer Adamantius does too state that Greeks were white. Pay close attention to what you just quoted: he uses the term LEUKOTEROI to describe Greeks, LEUKOI means white in Greek. Adamants' actual quote:

"leukoteroi tên chroan"

That translates to "Whiter in Color" in other words, Greeks were white.

You're anachronistically mistranslating ancient words in a modern manner. In pre-modern languages, "light" and "white" were synonymous. In many Asian and African societies today, they still refer to lighter-skinned people among them as "white" to this day, but clearly they're not referring to white Europeans. In this case, Adamantius is a Middle-Eastern Jew, so he's obviously referring to Greeks being lighter-skinned than his own Middle-Eastern Jewish people. "Lighter-skinned" is the correct translation for leukoteroi tên chroan, not "white race".

Who do you think made color the marker of identity? Greeks. The quote from the Fayyum article showed Hellenistic Egypt had a Greek elite that did not intermix with the local population they ruled and that Egyptians never accepted the Greeks as part of them but neither did the minority Greek population ever become part of the majority Egyptian population.


The very idea of a "white race" was alien to the ancient mindset. Greeks never once believed they had anything in common with Northern or Western Europeans, but often went to great lengths to differentiate themselves from other Europeans, more so than they did with other Middle-Eastern peoples. For example, the Greeks often disparaged the Celts and Iranian Scythians for being lighter-skinned than themselves, believing their lighter skin made them dumber but braver, while on the other hand they viewed the darker Egyptians as being smarter but cowardly. The Greeks saw themselves as having an ideal medium skin tone, an idea that the Arabs also later used, portraying themselves as the ideal medium skin tone, but slightly reversed (with darker Africans being dumber but braver, and lighter-skinned Persians being smarter but cowardly).

I suggest reading Shaws "Gnomos of the Idios Logos" Hellenistic Egypt that describes the legal measures taken by the Greek ruling elite to prevent intermixing between Greeks and Egyptians and that also prevented the inheritance of property and citizenship. Egyptians even those who adapted Greek mannerisms could only rise so far. It was the Greek elite minority who ruled at the top and passed laws prohibiting intermix with the local population.

Nowhere do any of your sources suggest there was no mixing, or that there was ever any law in any ancient society preventing miscegenation. This is coming entirely from your own modern anachronistic racialist interpretation of ancient history, not from any actual ancient sources. In pre-modern times, any anti-miscegenation law would be ridiculous, as that would mean most of the migrating men would be left with no brides and be forced to die alone. If Greek men never married Egyptian women, then there wouldn't be much of a Greek population in Egypt to begin with, yet ancient sources suggest they had a very large population by the time the Romans conquered Egypt. And like I already pointed out before, Roman sources themselves point out that they could not differentiate Egypt's Greeks from native Egyptians by appearance, but only through language and culture, proving that there was a great deal of mixing between Greeks and Egyptians (primarily Greek men and Egyptian women) in Greco-Roman Egypt.

Like I said before, it's not simply a matter of adopting a Greek name or Greek customs, but a matter of having a Greek father. Like in nearly all pre-modern paternal tribal cultures, if your father is Greek, then you are automatically Greek, regardless of who your mother is. If someone looks Egyptian, but has a Greek father, then he/she would be accepted as a fellow Greek, even by the upper echelons of Greek society. It was the same for nearly all pre-modern paternal societies, whether it was the Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, Arabs, Persians, Turks, Mongols, etc.

No the majority of them were not Greek. They were Egyptians. There was a minority Greek elite who rarely intermixed with native populations, and a majority native Egyptian populations. That's why the majority of the Fayyum's remains tested showed to be similar to Egyptians and did not show genetic similarities to Greeks or other Europeans.


You're just contradicting yourself. You just said it yourself that Egyptians were discriminated against and forced to be lower-class citizens. Yet now you're saying most of those Fayyum portraits are native Egyptians, even though the elite class of that city were Greeks. Like I said before, only the wealthy elites could afford to commission paintings of themselves, not lower-class peasants. Those Fayyyum portraits are not lower-class Egyptian peasants, but members of the elite class who identified themselves as "Greeks". Also, the genetic studies on the mummies show that they have much greater genetic affinity to Egyptians rather than Greeks or Europeans, not that they have no affinity with Greeks or Europeans. The greater genetic affinity with native Egyptians is obviously because of mixing.

So according to you black Africans who move and start living in Western white countries, aren't black any more but become white? lol!

BTW your Romani gypsies example is a bad one because Romani rarely ever intermix with Europeans, hence why their genetic markers both maternal and paternal are overwhelmingly South Asian. They typical keep to themselves and have never really integrated into any of the European host countries they migrate to. That's why historically they are such easy foreign scapegoats for Europeans when things go wrong. Oh and by the way, Gypsies genetics, both their paternal Y-DNA and maternal MT-DNA are overwhelmingly South Asian, not European.

Learn the difference between modern and pre-modern societies. In most pre-modern societies, most migrations were majority male. It's only in modern times where the male-female ratio in most migrations has become more balanced. The only exception in pre-modern times is slavery, where female slaves would be forced to migrate en masse as well as the males, with some pre-modern societies such as the Arabs even preferring foreign female slaves. However, there is no such indication that the Greeks had any such preference for female slaves like the Arabs later did.

As for the Roma "Gypsies", the male Y-DNA is over 1/2 Indian and under 1/2 European, while the female MT-DNA is about 1/3 Indian and 2/3 European. While it might be easy to tell them apart from other Europeans, it's just as easy to tell them apart from Indians as well. Just from appearance it's easy to tell the Roma are mixed.

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 You're anachronistically mistranslating ancient words in a modern manner. In pre-modern languages, "light" and "white" were synonymous. In many Asian and African societies today, they still refer to lighter-skinned people among them as "white" to this day, but clearly they're not referring to white Europeans. In this case, Adamantius is a Middle-Eastern Jew, so he's obviously referring to Greeks being lighter-skinned than his own Middle-Eastern Jewish people. "Lighter-skinned" is the correct translation for leukoteroi tên chroan, not "white race".


I believe I would know what my ancestors were saying in their native language that I speak and understand fluently, more so then a none Greek who doesn't even speak Greek nor understand our language. The term used was LEUKOTEROI to describe Greeks, LEUKOI means white in Greek, it holds the same meaning in modem times as it does in ancient times. Adamants' actual quote: 

"leukoteroi tên chroan" 

That translates to "Whiter in Color" in other words, Greeks were white. In fact the term "LEUKOI" to describe ancient Greeks was used by many other ancient sources including the Greeks themselves. You trying to change the meaning of term because it doesn't fit your opinions doesn't change the meaning of the word nor the fact that it was used to describe Greeks as "white".

 The very idea of a "white race" was alien to the ancient mindset. Greeks never once believed they had anything in common with Northern or Western Europeans, but often went to great lengths to differentiate themselves from other Europeans, more so than they did with other Middle-Eastern peoples. For example, the Greeks often disparaged the Celts and Iranian Scythians for being lighter-skinned than themselves, believing their lighter skin made them dumber but braver, while on the other hand they viewed the darker Egyptians as being smarter but cowardly. The Greeks saw themselves as having an ideal medium skin tone, an idea that the Arabs also later used, portraying themselves as the ideal medium skin tone, but slightly reversed (with darker Africans being dumber but braver, and lighter-skinned Persians being smarter but cowardly).


Say the modern political correct liberals trying to promote racism based on color only in modern eras when ancient evidence proves them wrong. Racial difference and superiority based on color were very much part of the ancient world as they are today. Otherwise we wouldn't have ancient Greeks claiming Ethiopians as cowards and Celtics as stupid based upon their skin colors and appearances. That doesn't change the fact that Greeks were Europeans aka whites and this ridiculous attempt in trying to make Greeks less Europeans are humorous beyond belief. For the record Greeks went to great lengths to differentiate themselves from Middle-Eastern people who they called ASIATICS for the record, more so then they did with other Europeans. I can provide you Ptolemy I quote where he is degrading the Asiatic Persians as inferior to Europe if you like. And yes he does see his Hellenic identity as being part of Europe.

 Nowhere do any of your sources suggest there was no mixing, or that there was ever any law in any ancient society preventing miscegenation. This is coming entirely from your own modern anachronistic racialist interpretation of ancient history, not from any actual ancient sources. In pre-modern times, any anti-miscegenation law would be ridiculous, as that would mean most of the migrating men would be left with no brides and be forced to die alone. If Greek men never married Egyptian women, then there wouldn't be much of a Greek population in Egypt to begin with, yet ancient sources suggest they had a very large population by the
time the Romans conquered Egypt. And like I already pointed out before, Roman sources themselves point out that they could not differentiate Egypt's Greeks from native Egyptians by appearance, but only through language and culture, proving that there was a great deal of mixing between Greeks and Egyptians (primarily Greek men and Egyptian women) in Greco-Roman Egypt.


All my sources point to Hellenistic Egypt being ruled like an apartheid state with little to no intermixing between the ruling Greek Elite and lower class Egyptian natives. No Roman sources ever point out that they could not differentiate Egypt's Greeks from native Egyptians by appearance, that is your own personal opinions. 

Again go read Shaws "Gnomos of the Idios Logos". It was a handbook or code of regulations that consisted of a list of legal rulings relevant to the affairs of the institution of the “Private” or “Special Account” (idios logos) in Egypt under Greek and Roman rule. It describes the legal measures taken by the Greek ruling elite to prevent intermixing between Greeks and Egyptians and that also prevented the inheritance of property and citizenship. And like I said Egyptians even those who adapted Greek mannerisms could only rise so far. It was the Greek elite minority who ruled at the top and passed laws prohibiting intermix with the local population.

Like I said before, it's not simply a matter of adopting a Greek name or Greek customs, but a matter of having a Greek
father. Like in nearly all pre-modern paternal tribal cultures, if your father is Greek, then you are automatically Greek, regardless of who your mother is. If someone looks Egyptian, but has a Greek father, then he/she would be accepted as a fellow Greek, even by the upper echelons of Greek society. It was the same for nearly all pre-modern paternal societies, whether it was the Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, Arabs, Persians, Turks, Mongols, etc.


Eh no you are wrong, they would not because in Hellenistic Egypt the ruling elite Greeks were passing laws that prevented intermixing between Greeks and Egyptians. In Greek law only a FREE Greek was seen as a Greek citizen with all the privilege that title comes with and having native blood of conquered natives who were not free did not equate you as a Greek even if a Greek soldier bonked some native broad. A free Greek required both parents to be Greek. You would know this if you knew the laws of the period we are discussion. Like I told you go read "Gnomos of the Idios Logos".  Only someone who was of Greek blood and FREE
could gain recognition as a Greek. Hence the ruling Greek elites were able to reassert the status quo and standings through such policies over and against any native populations or any intermix populations.

Let me know if you want me to post Ptolemy I quote, he makes his disgust very clear of "half breed mixed" native kids ruling over their Conquerers the Greeks. lol

 You're just contradicting yourself. You just said it yourself that Egyptians were discriminated against and forced to be lower-class citizens. Yet now you're saying most of those Fayyum portraits are native Egyptians, even though the elite class of that city were Greeks. Like I said before, only the wealthy elites could afford to commission paintings of themselves, not lower-class
peasants. Those Fayyyum portraits are not lower-class Egyptian peasants, but members of the elite class who identified themselves as "Greeks". Also, the genetic studies on the mummies show that they have much greater genetic affinity to Egyptians rather than
Greeks or Europeans, not that they have no affinity with Greeks or Europeans. The greater genetic affinity with native Egyptians is obviously because of mixing.


No I did not contradict myself, I've been saying the same thing for several posts already. Those Fayyum mummies were predominantly Egyptians, and there was a large Arab population among them as well given the fact that there were not many Greeks in Fayyum. Fayyum was made up largely of native Egyptians and Arabs. Stop making things up just because the evidence doesn't fit you opinions. Those mummies showed no genetic affinity with Greeks or Europeans because the majority of them were not Greeks nor Europeans. Greeks were largely concentrated in 3 Greek cities in Egypt: Alexandria, Naukratis and Ptolemais Hermiou. In these three Greek cities it was illegal for the members of the Greek elite citizen-body to contact marriages with natives, and the citizens of these cities retained most of their pure Hellenic stock through out the Ptolemaic period. Hence why there is more Greek/European admixture found in Northern Egypt among Egyptians then Southern Egypt, and even today in Alexandria one can find Egyptians of Greek stock who look purely European, case in point Antigone Costanda and Marina Papaelia:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigone_Costanda
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/NewFashion/MarinaPapaelia2.jpg

Those mummies you keep harping about were not representations of wealthy Greek elites but largely of Coptic Egyptians. That's why they show more similarities with Egyptians then Greeks or Europeans. As I explained to you in numerous other posts those Mummy portraits are of mostly Copts, heck they are even from the Coptic period. Read:

Mummy portraits or Fayum mummy portraits (also Faiyum mummy portraits) is the modern term given to a type of naturalistic
painted portraits on wooden boards attached to mummies from the Coptic period. 

They date to the Roman period, from the late 1st century BCE or the early 1st century CE onwards. It is not clear when their
production ended, but recent research suggests the middle of the 3rd century. They are among the largest groups among the very few survivors of the highly prestigious panel painting tradition of the classical world, which was continued into Byzantine and Western traditions in the post-classical world, including the local tradition of Coptic iconography in Egypt.


Like I said on numerous times, those mummies are mostly of Egyptians. Heck they even look like Copts look today.

 Learn the difference between modern and pre-modern societies. In most pre-modern societies, most migrations were majority male. It's only in modern times where the male-female ratio in most migrations has become more balanced. The only exception in pre-modern times is slavery, where female slaves would be forced to migrate en masse as well as the males, with some pre-modern societies such as the Arabs even preferring foreign female slaves. However, there is no such indication that the
Greeks had any such preference for female slaves like the Arabs later did.


Learn about the historical time periods being discussed without inflecting your own modern ideological views to them. A child of a native conquered female or female slave would never be given citizenship status under Greek law nor seen as Greek because the child wouldn't be Free. I explained this already in my above comments.

Read the papyri of Hellenistic Egypt, many of those Greek soldiers brought their Greek families with them. The documents of the time show many of them, as we know from the legal papyri of the time period, had European wives. In the 3 cities that Greeks were largely concentrated in it was illegal for the Greek eilte citizen-body to contact marriages with natives, and the citizens of these cities retained their pure Hellenic stock through out the Ptolemaic period. 

And I also notice you didn't answer my original question regarding blacks, probably because it doesn't fit whatever opinions you hold and are trying to promote. Again: So are black Africans who moved and started living in Western white countries NOT black any more but become white? Yes or no? 

 As for the Roma "Gypsies", the male Y-DNA is over 1/2 Indian and under 1/2 European, while the female MT-DNA is about 1/3 Indian and 2/3 European. While it might be easy to tell them apart from other Europeans, it's just as easy to tell them apart from Indians as well. Just from appearance it's easy to tell the Roma are mixed.


As I explained to you already your Romani gypsies example is a bad one because Romani rarely ever intermix with Europeans, hence why their genetic markers both maternal and paternal are overwhelmingly South Asian. They typical keep to themselves and have never really integrated into any of the European host countries they migrate to. That's why historically Gypsies have been such easy foreign scapegoats for Europeans to target when things go wrong. 

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I believe I would know what my ancestors were saying in their native language that I speak and understand fluently, more so then a none Greek who doesn't even speak Greek nor understand our language. The term used was LEUKOTEROI to describe Greeks, LEUKOI means white in Greek, it holds the same meaning in modem times as it does in ancient times.

My source, Dienekes Pontikos, is also a Greek, and he translated it as "lighter-skinned", not "white". And while you might know modern Greek, I'm sure he's more knowledgeable about ancient Greek than you. In other words, I think I'll take his word over yours.

Racial difference and superiority based on color were very much part of the ancient world as they are today. Otherwise we wouldn't have ancient Greeks claiming Ethiopians as cowards and Celtics as stupid based upon their skin colors and appearances. That doesn't change the fact that Greeks were Europeans aka whites and this ridiculous attempt in trying to make Greeks less Europeans are humorous beyond belief. For the record Greeks went to great lengths to differentiate themselves from Middle-Eastern people who they called ASIATICS for the record, more so then they did with other Europeans. I can provide you Ptolemy I quote where he is degrading the Asiatic Persians as inferior to Europe if you like. And yes he does see his Hellenic identity as being part of Europe.

Except you forgot the part where millions of Greeks lived in Asia Minor, i.e. what is today the Asian part of Turkey. And those Greeks referred to themselves as Asiatic, not European. To the ancient Greeks, Europa and Asia were simply landmasses, nothing more and nothing less. It was the Mediterranean Sea itself that defined their identity, not the landmasses surrounding it.

Again go read Shaws "Gnomos of the Idios Logos". It was a handbook or code of regulations that consisted of a list of legal rulings relevant to the affairs of the institution of the “Private” or “Special Account” (idios logos) in Egypt under Greek and Roman rule. It describes the legal measures taken by the Greek ruling elite to prevent intermixing between Greeks and Egyptians and that also prevented the inheritance of property and citizenship. And like I said Egyptians even those who adapted Greek mannerisms could only rise so far. It was the Greek elite minority who ruled at the top and passed laws prohibiting intermix with the local population.

Nowhere does the Gnomos of the Idios Logos forbid mixed marriages. On the contrary, it explicitly allowed mixed marriages:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ZOLuaRusoCgC&pg=PA262

In Greek law only a FREE Greek was seen as a Greek citizen with all the privilege that title comes with and having native blood of conquered natives who were not free did not equate you as a Greek even if a Greek soldier bonked some native broad. A free Greek required both parents to be Greek. You would know this if you knew the laws of the period we are discussion. Like I told you go read "Gnomos of the Idios Logos". Only someone who was of Greek blood and FREE
could gain recognition as a Greek. Hence the ruling Greek elites were able to reassert the status quo and standings through such policies over and against any native populations or any intermix populations.

According to The Oxford Handbook of Roman Egypt (which I linked to above), one of the most authoritative sources on Greco-Roman Egypt, the way the Romans legally labelled the Greek, Roman and Egyptian populations in Egypt had almost nothing to do with actual ethnic origins.

Here's another part of The Oxford Handbook of Roman Egypt where historians agree that the "Greek" and "Egyptian" labels had nothing to do with racial origins, but were mostly social constructs:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ZOLuaRusoCgC&pg=PA268

In other words, the "Greek" ruling class in Hellenistic Egypt absorbed countless people of Egyptian origins. Anyone with a Greek father was labelled a Greek, not an Egyptian. And many Egyptians who served the army also became labelled as Greeks. Later in Roman Egypt, the Romans abolished the Hellenistic ethnicity system and diluted the ethnic labels even further. Many of the people who the Romans legally labelled as Egyptians identified themselves as Greeks, and many of the people the Romans legally labelled as Greeks had Egyptian origins.

No I did not contradict myself, I've been saying the same thing for several posts already. Those Fayyum mummies were predominantly Egyptians, and there was a large Arab population among them as well given the fact that there were not many Greeks in Fayyum. Fayyum was made up largely of native Egyptians and Arabs. Stop making things up just because the evidence doesn't fit you opinions. Those mummies showed no genetic affinity with Greeks or Europeans because the majority of them were not Greeks nor Europeans. Greeks were largely concentrated in 3 Greek cities in Egypt: Alexandria, Naukratis and Ptolemais Hermiou. In these three Greek cities it was illegal for the members of the Greek elite citizen-body to contact marriages with natives, and the citizens of these cities retained most of their pure Hellenic stock through out the Ptolemaic period. Hence why there is more Greek/European admixture found in Northern Egypt among Egyptians then Southern Egypt, and even today in Alexandria one can find Egyptians of Greek stock who look purely European, case in point Antigone Costanda and Marina Papaelia

You're obviously mixing up two completely different time periods. The Arabs didn't conquer Egypt until the 7th century CE, long after the period we're talking about. As for Fayyum, the Wikipedia article points out that 1/3 of the city was Greek, just like Alexandria. And the Greeks represented most of the city's elites. The Fayyum portraits are of the city's elites, not the peasants. The Fayyum portraits are mostly of the elites, i.e. Greeks, not the peasants, i.e. Egyptians. And the fact that they are genetically much closer to Egyptians rather than Greeks or other Europeans only goes to show how mixed they are.

As for the modern Greek population in Egypt, most of them migrated there in modern Ottoman times. Prior to that, by medieval times, most of the Greek population had either been absorbed into the native Egyptian population or Arabized by the Arab conquerors (like how they Arabized most native Egyptians).

Read the papyri of Hellenistic Egypt, many of those Greek soldiers brought their Greek families with them. The documents of the time show many of them, as we know from the legal papyri of the time period, had European wives.

While some of them did bring their Greek wives, what about the ones who weren't married, i.e. the majority of Greek soldiers? When Alexander conquered Egypt (apparently non-violently, by claiming himself the son of an Egyptian god), nowhere is there any evidence that he took a significant number of Greek women with him. Most of the Greeks that went with him were overwhelmingly male. In other words, many of them obviously took local wives.

And I also notice you didn't answer my original question regarding blacks, probably because it doesn't fit whatever opinions you hold and are trying to promote. Again: So are black Africans who moved and started living in Western white countries NOT black any more but become white? Yes or no?

The huge flaw in your analogy is that you're assuming they migrated to Western countries by choice. Anyone who knows anything about black history knows they were forced to migrate through slavery, not by choice. And it was the white masters who decided how many men and women should migrate, not the black slaves themselves. This is the opposite to the Greco-Egyptian scenario, where most of the migrants were conquering Greek males who migrated by choice, not slaves brought by the Egyptians. In a situation where most of the migrants are male, mixed marriages are inevitable.

As I explained to you already your Romani gypsies example is a bad one because Romani rarely ever intermix with Europeans, hence why their genetic markers both maternal and paternal are overwhelmingly South Asian. They typical keep to themselves and have never really integrated into any of the European host countries they migrate to. That's why historically Gypsies have been such easy foreign scapegoats for Europeans to target when things go wrong.

And like I already explained, half of their genetics are similar to Europeans. Of course the Europeans can tell them apart, but the huge flaw in your argument is that you're ignoring the fact that the Indians can also easily tell Romani apart from themselves. If the Romani were to ever "return" to India, many of the locals would view them as "Europeans", just like how Palestinians view Israel's Ashkenazi Jews as "Europeans". And that's obviously because Romani gypsies and Ashkenazi Jews have a great deal of European genetics. While Europeans can distinguish Romani and Jews, Indians and Arabs (respectively) can also distinguish them. The mixture is what makes them distinguishable to both sides.

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Everything Jag85 says is correct

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Delusional blacks and your continuing attempts to connect yourselves to Europeans, you sound as pathetic as always. No it's not correct and neither are your ridicoulse black idiotic claims. Greeks were never blacks, and neither are your stupid claims of Hercules being "black". As Europeans both Hercules and Greeks were and still are as white as all other Europeans. That is why all those unwanted illegal black immigrants are so easy to spot and round up by the Greek police in a country like Greece that was and still is 99% European aka white, delusional clown.

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Greece was located in ancient Africa about centuries ago before continental shift occured, so every one there is black basically

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You are a geograph and anthropological challenged fool. Greece was never located in Africa and everyone there was never black. Greece has always been part of Europe and everyone in Greece were always white. That is why it's easy for the Greek police to pick outl those illegal 3rd world black African immigrants in a country that is 99% white. Now go back to school and get an education.

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Greece was located in ancient Africa about centuries ago before continental shift occured, so every one there is black basically


Centuries ago?

It's called continential drift and it's only a theory.
And supposedly it happened over two hundred million years ago.

That is, before any proto-humans existed.

Read more, spew less *beep*

!

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No one in relevant history was alive millions of years ago so there's no proof of that. For all any one knows you could've just spewed that out and therefore its much more likely to be centuries

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For all any one knows you could've just spewed that out


Oh sorry, I forgot to post sources for that exact reason.

http://education.nationalgeographic.com/education/encyclopedia/contine ntal-drift/?ar_a=1

http://anthro.palomar.edu/homo2/mod_homo_1.htm

its much more likely to be centuries


Nope. A century is a hundred years. Nothing like that happened "hundreds of years ago".

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A lot of natural disasters happened in the past couple century such as hurricane katrina, world war II, floods earthquakes, dust bowl etc, so it's not that far fetched to believe contenential drift happened centureies ago

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Stop posting because you sound stupider by the moment. Continents have been in their current state for millions of years and long before modern humans existed. Seriously go back to school.

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I'm not really proud of being a college drop out but I couldn't stand it and don't feel like going back. But who really needs to "go back" is you and by that I mean back in time a couple centuries ago so you can see for yourself

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That explains your nonesense. A couple of centuries ago is only a couple of hundred years and the continents have been in their current locations for millions of years and long before humans existed.

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No my point is that exactly since there was no one around one million years to see it, there isn't even any proof it was a million years ago but people were around for a hundred years which is still a long time

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That doesn't make any sense because people a hundred years ago put the continents exactly where they are today and so do Geologists who sure as heck know more about the subject.

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They didn't have the technology to do that back then so they didn't know but the reason trading across continents was so much easier was because they were connected so that's how Hercules came from Africa

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Seriously dude, go back to school cause you sound foolish with every post you make. 1) Hercules didn't "come" from Africa because he was European, he came from Europe. 2) The continents were not connected hundred years ago. That would mean the Americas were connected to the old world hundred years ago and a first grader can tell you how ridiculous that claim along is. 3) Humans were traveling and sailing the world hundred years ago and they knew were the continents were located hundered years ago and the continents were exactly where they are today. Seriously go back to school because your ludicrous claims of all the continents being connected as one hundreds of years ago make you sound foolish.

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Enjoy your ignorance.

!

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And

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Bump

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Bump for facts

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@psteve321


You need to shut up and go back to school with your know nothing behind. And very black people want to e European white---why should we be? What's so damn special about being white,anyway.

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@psteve

Black folks have been in Britain since about the 17th century or so--you really don't know what you're talking about there. Or are you going to tell the BBC they're just making all that up too?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/empire_seapower/black_britons_01. shtml

http://www.blackpresence.co.uk/

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-18903391

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That's post slavery time and they weren't numerous. The Brits were shipping most of them over to the colonies and Caribbean to begin with. Prior to that black people were an anomaly in Britain.

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Well the Greeks brought Lions from Africa so it's likely he came along too

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Wrong. He wasn't 'african' and neither did Greeks "bring" any 'lions' from Africa. He was European and Lions were common in Europe during ancient times and before they were all hunted to extinction.

"Lions inhabited Europe until historic times. European lions could possibly have been the last remnants of the cave lion (Panthera leo spelaea).
In the earliest Holocene the lion was still present in northern Spain. Until around 5500 to 3000 B.C. the lion is confirmed via fossils from Hungary and from the Pontic Region of Ukraine.
When Xerxes advanced through Macedon in 480 BC, he encountered several lions.[6][7] But while lions presumably still existed in the area between the rivers Aliakmon and Nestus in Macedonia in Herodotus' time, in the first century AD Dio Chrysostom wrote that they were already extinct in Europe.
Lions were present in Transcaucasia until the 10th century. The peak of its historic range covered all of the plains and foothills of eastern Transcaucasia westward almost to Tblisi. Northwards, its range extended through the eastern Caucasus, from the Apsheron Peninsula to the mouth of the Samur River in the actual Azerbaijan-Russia border, extending to Araks. From there, the boundary of its range narrowly turned east to Yerevan, with its northern boundary then extending westward to Turkey.[3]
European lions are considered to be similar to the Asiatic lion (Panthera leo persica)."

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Well I doubt tigers were native to Greek but in The Gladiator they had tigers used in one if the combat scenes which were likely imported from Africa

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Lions were native to Europe and in ancient times they were all across Europe including Greece. There are many ancient depictions of European lions in ancient European artwork. Also European lions were more similar to the Asiatic Lions.

Tigers once ranged widely across Asia, from Turkey in the west to the eastern coast of Russia. Nowadays their fragmented and partly degraded range extends from India in the west to China and Southeast Asia. The northern limit of their range is close to the Amur River in southeastern Siberia. The only large island they still inhabit is Sumatra. BTW, tigers are native to Asia, not Africa.

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@psteve321

Do you realize you are debating with a 9 y.o kid !!!!!

LOL

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The KKK v. Greek-Americans:
http://www.greece.org/AHEPA/99000his.html
Greek Odyssey: personal discrimination (are you Stavros, the white supremacist by any chance?) http://greekodyssey.typepad.com/my_greek_odyssey/2006/12/the_greekamer ic.html
Perceptions of Greeks in the US: http://alexandermakedon.com/articles/GreekAmerican.html
Italians lynched by KKK: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~lamadiso/articles/lynchings.htm


Beauty will save the world--Dostoevsky.

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Hahaha!! Here is what a Greek-American from one of the sources your stupidass posted has to say about your politically correct liberal brainwhashing.

I personally know KKK members, and White Separatists (like me) who are Greek-Americans. A Greek-American could god damn join the KKK if they wanted to. I live in California, and you can't tell me that third world immigration HELPS anything! There are forty million illegal aliens now, and they have killed more Americans than have been killed in the war since 2003!!
28% of Black males are part of the criminal justice system, they commit 20,000 rapes of White women per year (hundreds of thousands when the figures from the last four decades are tallied up), over a quarter of a million murders of White people during the last four decades, and over 40 MILLION White victims of VIOLENT Black crime during this same time period!

Perhaps it's time to start stop being PC, and actually start defending the civilization which basically started in Greece. Perhaps it's time to start confronting the fact that Bolshevik Jews mass murdered 65 MILLION innocent Russian and Ukrainian Orthodox Christian men, women, and children between 1919 and 1940, and that's a FACT. The term "racism" was coined by non other than Leon Trotsky (Bronstein) who organized the murder of tens of millions of people of a DIFFERENT race and religion than he was. My family has no complaints of bigotry in America, as they experienced ABSOLUTELY ZERO language bigotry, and that's all it could be... "language" prejudice. You can't fool me. I know Greeks, and they don't like Blacks and Mexicans. Are you kidding me!??
If you have any plans of just trotting back to Greece when it hits the fan over here, you can just forget it. Greece is everything that the Globalists hate: Nationalist, uni-cultural, uni-racial, uni-ethnic, uni-religious, etc. You cannot hide anymore, because your head is scheduled next for the chopping block. And when I say "you," I am referring to those who subscribe to this nonsensical piece of "politically correct" cowardice.


Hahahaha!! Your outdated PC dubious stereotypes still doesn't change the fact that Greeks and Italians were seen as white even in the states, hence why Jim Crow laws never applied to Southern Europeans and why as whites they could own land, vote and marry other white people, something you blacks and other none whites couldn't do, which is why you are still butthurt over it.

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@psteve321

Seriously just shut the *beep* with your racist white supremacist bull****. Just get the *beep* out of here already.

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Shove your Afrocentric beliefs where the sun don't shine.

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Who told you that? Those toothless racist ex-convict black muslims one can find in Times Square occasionally?

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No but I'm smart enough to know what I am talking about

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I seriously doubt that, given you are wrong.

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No

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@ccr633

Just shut the *beep* up, you ignorant racist troll. Always coming on the boards to start some s***---never have anything worth a damn to listen to. Ignore him/her everybody.

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[deleted]

Really? That's fascinating. I guess my college professors were wrong. So Hercules was black? Did he also smoke crack and rob people?

"IMdB; where 14 year olds can act like jaded 40 year old critics...'

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No he didn't you resist *beep*

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It's spelled 'racist,' not 'resist.' 'Resist' is when you fight against something. And I "resist" when Hollywood tries to force incorrect history or distorted mythology down my throat. I "resist" stupidity in general. Am I RACIST? I don't know, but I live in NYC, and what I see every day with my own eyes, has educated me on how things are. I'm not racist, I'm just aware. Where I live, and in most of the USA, about %86 of violent crime and drug related crimes come from the Afro American community. That's not racism, it's just a fact. Are you white? If so, i want you to walk through Brownsville, or East New York after sunset. Come on.. I DARE you. I promise you, if you make it out of there, you will feel a bit "racist" yourself..

"IMdB; where 14 year olds can act like jaded 40 year old critics...'

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Nicely said...

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[deleted]



Pinku you truly are a resist assdumb mother *beep* admitting you indeed are and contradicting yourself saying you're not, you don't know every black person in the world

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I like you. You seem like a smart person. So I'm gonna buy you a present; a one way ticket to beautiful Liberia, where you can lie on the beautiful beach and soak up the sun. have a nice time, and don't forget your machine gun...oh, and I hope for your sake that you aren't female or you might not have such a nice time there..unless of course Hercules swoops in and saves your ass. He might be there actually, after all..he IS black..

"IMdB; where 14 year olds can act like jaded 40 year old critics...'

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@Pinku Eiga

Ok,okay---I guess the fact that for decades New York didn't give a damn about the welfare of its black citizens for decades and only allowed them to live in the worst areas to begin with (in practically ever city in the country) might have had something to do with how current conditions are there? So,according to you, no white people ever commit crimes, even though they're the ones buying up and using the most drugs---more than anyone else in the country, making all the crystal meth, and doing all the school shootings? You don't know ANY white criminals at all? I find that a little hard to believe. Especially with all the (white) Mafia running things on the downlow there.

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It's true that we might BUY drugs...but at least we don't steal drugs by shooting people in the head to get the drugs, or the money to buy them. I wonder if you can explain to me why every other minority has come to New York and flourished, building lives for themselves and their family, while working toward building safe, clean, inexpensive neighborhoods, while the black population is STILL floundering. I'm speaking from experience. I was short on cash and had to live in an all black neighborhood. I can tell you, i was shocked at how dirty they kept their neighborhood. They would throw their trash right on the sidewalk as soon as they were done with it. I had to share a bathroom where they would piss all over the toilet seat and leave hair all over everything. What does poverty have to do with being clean? It doesn't cost money to be clean. It seems like blacks in this country just can't adapt, and build something for themselves, like the Hispanic and Asian communities. It seems like they would rather put a bullet in someones head and take what they want, rather than just work for it. The whole time i was in this place, I wondered how the hell anybody could live in such filth. And why do so many black mothers beat the hell out of their children? and why do so many black men walk out on their children? Please tell me, because you seem to be the expert..

"IMdB; where 14 year olds can act like jaded 40 year old critics...'

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@Pinku Eiga

FYI, that was just the black people who lived in THAT ghetto you lived in. They don't represent ALL black people in America any more than all white rednecks in the South represent all white people throughout the country. My question is, why did you even move in that area knowing how bad in was? "Black in this country can't adapt?"--uh, that's truly one big fat and ignorant racist generalization there. Black people have been in the country since the beginning---we adapted from the minute we got here--and also because we were FORCED to---we didn't have a choice in the matter. There are also 38 million of us here---we don't all live in ghettos, or not give a damn about our own communities---I know because I grew up in black communities where we dealt with our problems within those communities. We're Americans just like you, you smart-a** racist bastard. And even in New York, black people live in decent communities, so don't even try and act like only black people in New York live like that. And, believe me, people don't live in places like that because they want to e there---it's because they can't afford to move the hell out of there---they just put up with the bull**** there because right now they don't have the option of moving,plain and simple, or can't find a job that would enable them to be able to afford to move the hell out. They don't like living there any more than you did. And just so you know, there ARE ghettos with white folks and Latino folks


And places like that have been like that for decades because it used to be that black folks due to housing discrimination, were only allowed to live in the worst run-down parts of the city that white people didn't give a damn about, (practically every big city in the country) until the civil right era get rid of the discrimination, to some extent. That being said, there's no excuse for folks NOT to keep their area clean, no matter what color they are,or wherever the hell they may live. But to claim black people can't adapt just because you lived in a bad ghetto neighborhood is total and complete bull****. It also sure as hell dosen't make you a damn expert on black people just because you lived there. That's just ONE neighborhood you lived in---ALL black people in the country didn't live there. Where I'm from, there are plenty of black middle class neighborhoods where the people living there give a damn about what happens to them and make sure that those areas stay safe. Black people's whole history in America dosen't boil down to living in the damn ghettos. Anyway, that's all I have to say about it---it's not like you're even give a damn about what I said anyway,because you're a damn racist just like that idiot psteve.

And, BTW,there have been plenty of cases here in the Detroit area (not always in the city of Detroit) where white people have killed each other over some stupid s***. There's a white guy who recently get sentenced for the murder of his ex-girlfriend and her boyfriend----the sicko bastard actually murdered them, and then dumped pieces of their bodies into the river. One of the biggest cases about 2 summers ago was that of a white teen from Bloomfield Hills (a rich Detroit area suburban city) who was so messed up on a new drug called K9 or K12 or whatever, that he broke into his parents' house to steal some more money to buy more of that drug, and beat his own father to death with a baseball bat. There was also the case of the Besharas, a West Bloomfield couple, in which the husband had his wife murdered in their own home by an acquaintance of his, and then tried to make it like she had been carjacked in Detroit---the case was profiled on DATELINE last year--look it up.

Oh, and there was the case where two whie boys were doing a drug deal, and one of them got pissed off, greedy, and shot another white man down for a $5.00 bag of weed---that happened, too. Look it up, and stop acting like white people don't do some equally *beep* s***, because they do and you know it.

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no Hercules is asian

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Hercules didn't exist. However seeing is he's part of Greek myth, he would've been white.


http://www.freewebs.com/demonictoys/

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Nooo...
Hercules was likely an asian midget.Or a woman.Or an african voodoo priest.Anything else but a normal Greek powerful white dude...
Yeah...
____________________________
Yeah? Well, you know, that's just like, ehhh...your opinion, man.

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