MovieChat Forums > Hái-kak chhit-ho (2008) Discussion > Ok seriously...

Ok seriously...

posted 15 years ago by andre_covaz
21 replies | jump to latest

i believe most (if not all) of the threads here were posted by taiwanese.
i have taiwanese friends so i got the chance to watch this movie.
here's how i feel...OVERRATED!!!
it may not be too bad, but it's NOT THAT GOOD either!
seriously...for those who exaggerated about its so called "history in the making" potential, y'all need to watch some more movies.
the story? i thought it must be some damn good screenplay given that the taiwanese media had been braggin about it. and when i saw it, not so much...just some cliched love story that ends with a love song.
the acting? oh please...don't get me started on comparing with some of "real" brilliant asian actors.
the directing? well, sorry y'all, but even Mr. Ang Lee (whom had won the Oscar) said that there're flaws in the directing of this film.

okay, maybe this movie IS somewhat a miracle for taiwanese films...given the fact that there aren't a lot of good productions from taiwan.
but can it shine internationally??
let's face it...9 years ago Ang Lee's Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon had won taiwan an oscar, now this??

don't tell me "you'd only like this movie if you're a taiwanese" all that BS.
a good movie has NO cultural barrier! people from all over the world will love it.
my taiwnese friends, who are familiar with taiwanese culture, do not understand why people love cape no. 7 so much either.
why is it popular? THE MEDIA! taiwanese media found a way to cast the spell out on the public. the media said "it's the best taiwanese film", a bunch of people believed it's the best taiwanese film, and told the other bunch of people it's the best taiwanese film.
y'all see what was going on there? chain reaction! within a bunch of people who follow what other people think is good.

So, my conclusion is, this movie is simply overrated. period.

[–] iwrote2047 15 years ago

...okay...I think you need to tone down the anger

true the media hyped this movie up like crazy. the director intended this film to be a quick cash earner to finance his next film, Seediq Bale. It was not intended to be a serious film, but as a little summer beach film about the countryside of Taiwan and the struggles of her inhabitants. I think you are looking for too much in this movie because of the media portrayed it as the greatest film ever, as the local media tends to do. Still, my opinion holds that it is an excellent first film by director Wei and I hope he will come up with great films in the future.

[–] andre_covaz 15 years ago

i'm not expressing anger, for the record, i'm simply expressing my opinion, like everyone else here, just negative ones.

of course i'm looking for MORE than what i've seen, since not only the media BUT the public have been braggin about how great it was.
if it wasn't serious, why all that publicity? why all that headlines saying "the best" or "history in the making" or "the taiwanese version of Titanic" things like that?
let me answer that for you...because the media saw the money-making potential and decided to make it big.
talk about low budget films from taiwan...a few years ago, "blue gate crossing" or other similar films from taiwan were not paid as much attention as cape no. 7. Were they really not compariable? if the media decided then to make blue gate crossing "the best film", i bet it would've been.
see what i'm saying? low-budget, unserious, overrated films can be huge, if the media want it to be. and like i said, if a group of people bought what the media BS, then they will blindly follow and pass on to another group of people.
"taiwanese version of titanic"????? c'mon...are you seroius?
okay maybe the boxoffice did show a high number, but what does that prove? does it mean it was "the best"? hell no. it means a bunch of people who followed blindly of what the media said and went to the theatre to watch it, possibly more than once.

sorry to bust the bubble, but i still think it's overrated.

[–] BaDaBOOM 15 years ago

How do you think Taiwanese people elected the latest president Ma in 2008? The media overwhelmly biased and favored him. (Most television stations are supported and backed by Ma's political party the Nationalist party). TV & newspape made him looked like a saint.

The media can change public opinion in Taiwan, very easily.

[–] freya3550 15 years ago

But you guys are neglecting the whole point of this film. It's not about winning Oscars and being the media's favorite and all. It's about the Taiwanese culture. Those people, Aga, Old Mao and all, being sturdy and hardworking and never giving up, people in Taiwan live exactly like them, and the movie introduced the lives of Taiwanese people in such a cute way, no wonder it's a big hit. Directer Wei was short on funds and actors while he struggled to get this movie done, and he wasn't extremely experienced at film making, so you really can't compare him with the already famous high educated and Oscar winner Ang Lee. And despite all the difficulties, Wei never gave up his dream of making a heart warming film about Taiwanese people. Cape No. 7 may not be perfect, but it does turn a new page in history.

[–] andre_covaz 15 years ago

HA, taiwanese culture...go watch the movie again, listen to the openning song and re-think your point.
Hear that? the opening song was sang in ENGLISH!
Songs are very essential in movies, particularly in foreign films...and look what they've done, first thing in this movie, they use an English song.
Ok, maybe some parts of taiwanese culture are exposed, but it didn't make a very strong impression.
I've been to Taiwan, and I've definitely seen so much more than what's shown in this film.

Another thing is...i really don't see the connection between the rock singer wannabes and the love story of that old lady. This connection ends before it had even began.

[–] shiningc-2 15 years ago

you are not Taiwanese and therefore you don´t understand many themes in the film. The director didn´t intend to sell this film to foreigners. in fact, he had no money to buy new tapes and he couldn´t afford to sleep in hotels during the shooting. most of his cast didn´t get to sleep in hotels either. the hotel they shot at only offered 3 beds to the cast.

so ít´s alright that you don´t understand the effort behind the scenes. but you are too arrogant. just because you don´t see certain things, doesn´t mean that it´s overrated. i will tell you a few themes that you won´t notice if you weren´t Taiwanese, especially coming from a poor little town like Aga:

(1)The theme of young people of country-side moving to big cities for jobs, and leaving the old and sometimes the children to their parents at home. Many of these young people cannot earn a good living in the big city either, but they won´t go home until they are broke like Aga. This happened to 2 of my uncles, but I am sure that this is not a Taiwan-only issue!

(2)And how (1) resulting firms that move into town for cheap labour but getting all the natural resources of the town (which is what BOT refers to). Instead of hotels, factories that aren´t green are more of the case. That´s partially why Aga´s stepfather was so angry and demanded some benefits for the townpeople.

(3)The complicated interactions between the Min-Nan, the Hakka, the aboriginals on the island and the Japanese due to the past history. 60 years isn´t a short period of time, but it is still affecting many of us, no matter how our current govt tries to downplay it.

(4)How the Taiwanese have lost and are now trying to re-discover and appreciate their local culture (including music) that are non-Chinese or not directly from China. This is why many songs are non-Chinese in the film.

(5)The need of the Taiwanese to find their talents to stay competitive in the new century. That´s why Aga plays rock music and sings English songs. I am sure you listen to English songs too. So think before you criticize.(by the way, all band members in the movie are musicians and first-time actors/actresses, including the old grandpa and the little girl)

P.S. I showed this film to an Indian co-worker 2 weeks ago, and he laughed happily throughout the entire film. So I only have 1 thing to say to you:

The problem lies in front of the screen, and not in the tape.

[–] andre_covaz 15 years ago

Although I'm not a Taiwanese, many of my close friends are. That's why I got to watch this film. And like how I felt, MANY of my Taiwanese friends who are VERY familiar with Taiwanese culture thought this was completely overrated.

As for some of your points, I find it NOT convincing at all...

(1)&(2)Young people moving to big cities for job. NOT a Taiwan-only issue! Did you not learn anything about early immigration of those from all over the world to the US to live in the "American dream"? Same thing, different concept. PLENTY of movies talk about people moving from uptown to downtown, small cities to big cities, leaving everything behind and try to find a new life. So again, NOT a Taiwan-only isssue.

(3) This is from my Taiwanese friend: the comflicts between these subcultures are NOT emphasized. They played a part, sure, but they seem to emphasize on the wrong thing, and tried to work arond it but DIDN'T. The whole theme worked around: the love story between the guy and the Japanese girl (NOT a cultural thing); the band (NOT a cultural thing); the letter and the past story of the old lady (again, NOT a cultural thing). They tried to use these themes to elaborate Taiwanese cultures, but didn't really work.
One thing about good foreign films is that they made their cultures VISIBLE, instead of saying "oh since you're not from this culture, you won't get this film." NO NO NO. A good foreign film ALLOWS the audiences to see the cultures they're promoting, take Slumdog Millionaire or City of God for example.

(4) Fair enough.

(5) Again, NOT a Taiwnese thing. And you missed my point. I'm not critisizing on the band. I'm simply saying that if you're trying to sell Taiwnese culture so desperately, why would you use an English song as your openning song? After all those points you've made, "it's all about Taiwanese cultures", don't you think this English starting song is a lil contradictive?
What, does English suddenly become a Taiwanese cultural thing?

The problem here is, the cultural ideas are NOT VISIBLE. The main theme of this film DID NOT promote Taiwanese culture. It promoted a love story, a musician's dream, a letter that tells a story from the past. Period.

[–] iwrote2047 15 years ago

1) slumdog was one overrated film, much more so than Cape7
2) i thought Cape did a good job presenting Taiwan's south, have u been there before?

[–] andre_covaz 15 years ago

1) HA, when the majority of the world says otherwise, you should really start thinking if the problem is in you. Besides, Cape 7 has only been viewed by a small amount of people, so the ratings it gets are not even comparable to the ratings slumdog gets.
2) Yes, I've actually been to KenTing, Kaohsiung & Tainan.

[–] Thinking_Tiger 15 years ago

So...you've BEEN there...now how long WERE you there?

[–] andre_covaz 15 years ago

Honestly not long. But I think you've gone way too far from the point here.
Like my previous threads said, it is NOT AT ALL about being a Taiwanese in order to like a Taiwanese film. The whole "you have to be a Taiwanese to understand and love this movie" sounds like complete BS to me.
There are many good international films out there, loved by people from other countries. I've never been to Brazil but I absolutely love their production City of God.
Why do you think Cape no 7 never even made it to the North American theaters while many other foreign films did?

[–] Thinking_Tiger 15 years ago

No, I didn't go off the point. I simply did not state myself clearly enough.

I'm not Taiwanese. I'm Canadian. I enjoyed this film immensely, but I will never call it brilliant, because I don't think it is. It's just funny. And you're absolutely right...that is BS. And that "because you're not a XXXX..." crap is something I would never tell anyone, because, having listened to that kind of crap every day for the past ten years, I am sick of that BS. So, since I didn't state that point clearly before, sorry about that.

I was going to say that knowing the language and having an in-depth familiarity with a culture goes a long way towards increasing the enjoyment of a film from that particular culture. Had I watched this movie my first year here, I probably wouldn't have enjoyed it as much as I do now. I like this movie because the people in it are...well, really local. I speak fluent Mandarin, and understand a touch of Taiwanese...enough to enjoy all the curse words in the film. :)

I agree with you that there are great international films out there. But I don't agree at all that a movie must have no cultural barrier before it can be considered good or great. And honestly, I don't give a damn that the movie never made it to NA theaters, for this very reason. I care that for once, the Taiwanese enjoyed a movie made in Taiwan for the Taiwanese, and supported it wholeheartedly. I highly doubt it was aimed at the international market, and if it wasn't, then who cares that it wasn't shown there?

So, anyways, my point is not that you have to be Taiwanese to understand and appreciate it. But I do maintain that cultural knowledge of Taiwan in general, and southern Taiwan in particular, is pretty much necessary. Take the example of the movie "Deliverance"; despite its high rating (7.9/10) and the fact that it was nominated for 3 Oscars, can you imagine what the reaction would be if it were played here? A few Taiwanese might appreciate it, but more than a few would be shocked and repelled by it, or simply dismiss it out of hand. Not that I'm trying to say that the films are similar, but I want to make the point, however extreme, that culture goes a long, long way.

[–] edgeofheaven18 14 years ago

TO andre-covaz:

You are entitled to your opinion. And I give you Kudos for expressing them. For me, I'm first generation Taiwanese-American. I was born in Taiwan but immigrated to the States when I was 11. Therefore, I am not as familiar with the Taiwanese culture as I would like to be.

Before I watched the movie, it was heavily recommended to me from my dad. He did not say that it was the "BEST" movie he has ever seen. But he simply said the movie brought him back to his growing up days in Taiwan. Cape No. 7 brought him back lots of wonderful memories of the "Old Taiwan". This is a movie that is very local, very familiar, very close to heart and very "Taiwan". I am not belittling you because "you are not Taiwanese so you must not get it" bullsh*t. I agree with you, when I first watched the movie, I had the same reaction, "what the hell is the big deal with this movie?" But as I watch it again, I start to realize what the director was trying to do. He simply wanted to make a good movie, to share with others the side of Taiwan that most people in the city have long forgotten. I recommend you to watch the movie again, but without any expectations. Just watch it for the sheer enjoyment of it. Don't go into it expecting to come out with some earth shattering insights. That way, it might make you feel better about the whole movie.

ps. you point about the English opening song. I think the director was trying to depict that Aga, the disillusioned rocker, who sang English rock songs during his rocker days, came back to his home town defeated. I don't think it was to Americanize the film. It was just what he sang during his band playing days.

pps. there is a lot of Taiwanese idioms throughout the film. A lot of them truly got lost in translation. Unless you speak fluent Taiwanese, I think it is harder to get into the spirit of the movie. Again, not belittling you, just thought that might be a contributor.

[–] Thinking_Tiger 15 years ago

Actually, English is part of the culture, though it's not a sudden thing. There've been English cram schools around here for the last 20-odd years, so a whole generation has grown up around it. I'm not sure, though, how long it has been taught in regular schools as a subject.

The results of this addition have been varied.

* Various pop singers sing some songs in English (quite well), which in turn offers some encouragement to the youth who idolize them, allowing them to enjoy learning English and promoting its use.

* People drop random snippets of it into their conversations, much as we do with, say, French or Spanish, or other European languages. It spices up the language and makes it interesting or funny. New slang words come and go.

* English is a requirement for many promotions in one's career, whether or not it is an integral part of one's day-to-day work.

* It allows us to enjoy the interesting mix of words we come across on a daily basis, whether they are on T-shirts, scooters, or paper coffee cups. A similar phenomenon exists in the West, in the form of Westerners who get Chinese tattoos.

* For better or for worse, it is a status symbol, as good English represents good education.

So...English *is* very much a part of the local culture.

[–] semperscriptira 15 years ago

watched this last week with my mother (at her urging; she heard it was really good). anyway, I went into this with a positive attitude, even though I usually don't like popular Chinese films.

I just want to say I agree with you. my experience with this movie was awful. I can't list enough of the problems. I could've focused on the power of music, yet it didn't even do that. It wasn't just bad ARTISTICALLY, but ENTERTAINMENT-wise.

1. everything in a film should be relevant - a film doesn't have room to go off on tangents. thus, it must be tight, concise, coherent, precise. so why is there that ridiculous part with a letter from the 40s? why is so much time spent on the mail delivery aspect of the story? why's it there?
2. the acting is awful (I cringed the entire time)
3. no buildup to the love between the main couple (cept them staring at each other and having the most random love scene ever) - they had no reason to connect and seemed to have little sympathy for each other anyway
4. the piano player guy's negligible role
5. what happened to the wine-selling bass guy and his little front desk clerk gf?
6. awkward moments with the necklaces (there was no sense of unity in the group - terribly forced together)
7. genderism - excuse me, but does anyone see anything wrong with having the girl at the end ditch her job for a barely developed relationship? talk about presenting women as weak, non-sensical, and belonging in a home.

In other words, the director must've gone, "let's see, we need:
1. love story (love-making scene included)
2. pop music ('cause everyone loves music)
3. funny bits (duh)
4. old people, young people, and those in the middle (so we can get a wide audience)
5. fighting (for the guys who might get unhappily dragged into the theatre)
6. flashbacks (to seem...deep? classy? I really don't get it either)

finally, this movie failed to entertain me. at 15 min. in, I was starting to look at the clock. the movie didn't explain to me why I should care, what the main character wanted, what was driving the story forward. It was artificial, shallow, worn. I was being lugged along by the neck, it seemed. Even the ending, which was supposed to be sweet and endearing, just made me roll my eyes - I didn't feel anything inside my body move emotionally. that's sad.

come on, if you wanted to make a good summer hit, you could've done a better job.

"Come Fly With Me" - Frank Sinatra

[–] Thinking_Tiger 15 years ago

Hey, don't hold back! Say what's REALLY on your mind. :D

[–] ash341986 15 years ago

This is actually not just a cultural thing, it involves some irony to the government's policy and some current events at the time when it was filmmed. (like the BOT thing they complain, how Southern Taiwan is never developped, how those people on TV generate hatred between people who vote for different parties, etc.) And it reveals what it is in Taiwan and the problems we have here.

I feel in a literary work or a movie the writer or producer don't have to explain everything. It is the audience's job to read/watch and think about what they try to convey in the story. You are right, things should be relevent, but I think we need to know the theme for the film to see if they are. What I see in the film is struggle and conflicts. Everything in the beginning is a chaos. Everyone has different opinions, different beliefs and different ways of doing things, and that's why they always get into conflicts, but this is the process. On the other hand, without the purpose of the conflict, why all those fights? Why do they, as common people, have to pay for what the government does (like Tomoko and the Japanese teacher)? The point is, we have to learn to accept one another, and that is how their band could finally put everything together. To me this is the main theme and many other things are developped from it. And as I said above it also reveals many other problems we have here in Taiwan.

[–] lilianyeung 15 years ago

I've read everybody's commments.. and i'd like to drop my 2 cents

'overrated' is a very subjective word.
just because more people like the film than you do and the fact its got lots of publicity and coverage than you think it deserves makes this film 'overrated' to you.

personally, i think titanic is a more overrated film.

i dont see the neeed of defending whether it's overrated or not... i mean, where does the 'standard' lie?

[–] Thinking_Tiger 15 years ago

Very true, indeed. I'm always amazed at how people assume that if they don't like something, that means it's bad. They believe that their standard is the only right one. This happens not only in regard to movies, but also music, TV shows, and so on.

There are lots of films that I feel are probably overrated, but I never feel the need to post something negative about them, because...as you said...it's subjective. If other people like it, that's fine. As long as some people like the movie, then the movie has accomplished its goal.

Have you ever noticed, too, people love to write things like, "The acting was absolutely awful!" about a movie they don't like? Or instead of enjoying a movie, and suspending their disbelief, they spend hours picking at the story for any small hole.

[–] brucehchen 15 years ago

I agree with most of your points...

But I would say Cape No. 7 is not a bad attempt at a commercial film, probably the best of Taiwan so far. At least that's something to be celebrated. No means that its gonna succeed anywhere else, but trust me there are a lot far worse films mad than this in the region of Asia.

Now about Real Taiwanese films -
Lets not talk about Ang Lee, who's screenwriter James Shamus is actually an American who is a genius in writing screenplays with international appeal; how about TRUE Taiwanese directors like Ho Shiao Shien, Edward Yang, and Tsai MIng Liang.

It is actually a REAL SHAME that taiwanese doesn't recognize THEIR talents, whereas Europeans/selected regions of America do. People should watch their films, then realize what "representing taiwanese culture without cultural barrier means." Their films doesn't last a week in the theaters in Taiwan, but won Cannes and selected as Criterion Collection... how big of a difference is that?

Other then that, just let Cape No.7 be... Correction to some other people's comments - Director Wei was actually Ho Shiao Shien's assistant director for a long time before he directed this, and bravo for him to do this in a limited amount of budget. I just encourage Taiwanese to look out for other real Taiwanese talents, some being neglected, that should've been recognized.

[–] MAX-78 14 years ago

You seem to be taking it quite personally.
I loved the film. But it took a long time for me to embrace it. I was ready to give up until over an hour in. It's a terribly slow film - like most Taiwanese films. But, like so many great Taiwanese films, it has a final act that rips your heart out (if you had been paying attention).
As for your cultural barrier question - I think it is a good point, but one I would argue. A great movie should have no cultural barrier - but some will. This film is very tied up in Taiwanese identity. It is quite easy to see the film as a piece of "Taiwanese independance" propaganda, but that would be a very simplistic reading. The way the film deals with the shared Chinese/Taiwanese/Aboriginal/Japanese history of the island is at times quite profound. I doubt very much that your average western audience would pick up every nuance. This in no way can be said to take away from the film, as it is clearly made for a Taiwanese audience. I'm just a westerner who has spent enough time there to love the Taiwanese flavour that dripped from ever moment of this beautiful little film.

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