MovieChat Forums > L'instinct de mort (2008) Discussion > Colt 1911 with a 12 round magazine?

Colt 1911 with a 12 round magazine?


I'm far from a gun nut but I do resent it when firearms are incorrectly represented in cinema.

In the scene where Mesrine is walking down a street with his daughter and the drive-by attempt takes place, he retaliates by firing twelve rounds from a Colt 1911.

The standard 1911 magazine capacity is 7 rounds, and the largest I know of holds 8. Where did these 4 extra bullets come from and why do so few film makers care about this?

I realise it's an issue of no significance to the majority but I think decent producers/directors should honour these things. Does anyone else find these ubiquitous oversights irritating?

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No we do not, just you. I do look forward to seeing your flawless masterpiece of cinema in the coming years though.

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Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. Please troll somewhere else if you absolutely must. Thanks in advance.

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[deleted]

PRiiCEY if you have a genuine understanding of the term, it's clear that you fit it.

I put across my point well and invited anyone who is similarly agitated by the subject to share their thoughts. I did not attack anyone's credibility, least of all yours. I did not suggest anyone post a sarcastic, snide comment if they disagreed. This is exactly what you did. Simply because you don't agree with my point doesn't by default make me a troll and give you the right to be a tosser about it. It's clear that nothing in my post was intentionally inflamatory. For the record, I love both Mesrine films and have purchased them on DVD.

If you have anything worthwhile to add (for example, that you know of a 12 round 1911 magazine, or if you can shine any light on the issue at all) please post sensibly. If all you can do is fling ad hominem insults, then please troll elsewhere.

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[deleted]

Just bumping this thread for you to help you find somebody who cares.
Thank you very much but that won't be necessary.
Your personal definition of Troll is very different from what a Troll actually is.
I've not stated my personal definition so I'm unclear as to how you reached this conclusion, but I appreciate your contribution to the thread nonetheless. I will set aside some time to familiarise myself with the term.

If you wish to further discuss the specific subject of firearm representation in cinema, please do not hesitate to share your thoughts. If however you're uninterested, I humbly request you refrain from posting in this thread from now on.

Thanks again for your contributions.

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[deleted]

"The standard 1911 magazine capacity is 7 rounds, and the largest I know of holds 8."

"I'm far from a gun nut" Yeah obviously

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I'm sure there are huge numbers of computer gamers out there with no real interest in guns who could still verify the claim.

Knowing how many bullets a certain weapon's magazine can store is pretty widely known stuff on the Internet nowadays. I only know of the 8 round magazine specifically because I researched it on Wikipedia before posting.

I've never even fired a real weapon = not a gun nut.

Again, if you have nothing constructive to add please refrain from posting.

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Just lost so much respect for you man.

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Why? What respect did you already have for me anyway?

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I thought maybe you owned a Colt 1911 and shot things with it.

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I wish!

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I have just watched the first part of this two part work and so far am very impressed. I did not even notice the extra shots from the 1911, but this subject is one of my pet peeves. I am not a gun nut, but am definitely a "movie nut",
and I feel that it takes away from the realism when one of the characters has a gun that just shoots and shoots.

I did not notice the count this time, but many times in movie scenes, if I am very engrossed, I find myself counting the number of rounds fired, following where the character is in the fight. Unless the director is dealing with a sci-fi or subject where weapons can just be invented, like a fantasy where it is not supposed to be real, it should be kept accurate. My two cents and support for the original poster.

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Thanks for the contribution mate! Glad to see I'm not the only one :P

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Para-Ordinance makes a 1911 model with a high-capacity clip that holds 13 rounds of .45 acp. see http://www.para-usa.com/new/product_pistol.php?id=69

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Awesome, thanks :)

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Yeah I'm no gun-nut either but it also bothers me when this happens in movies, it seems like a very simple thing yet is rarely done properly. The colt he was using in the film should have only had 7 or 8 rounds like you said before, I'm almost certain there were no extended-cap Colt's when this took place.

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Yeah I'm no gun-nut either but it also bothers me when this happens in movies, it seems like a very simple thing yet is rarely done properly. The colt he was using in the film should have only had 7 or 8 rounds like you said before, I'm almost certain there were no extended-cap Colt's when this took place.

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I am a shooter and far from being a gun nut either and know the magazine capacity of a 1911 because it is a very well-known firearm that every shooter will try or own at one time or another, it's just that emblematic.

To me, a gun nut is a guy (or gal) who spends great time reading about firearms and knows all the trivia and specs about them, is usually subscribed to several magazines, or picks them up at the stands, and is a member or at least reader of several Web boards, including IMFDB.org. Usually owns quite a few guns too.

I qualify as a gun nut for some people because I own more than zero firearms. I guess for these people, knowing the magazine capacity of a 1911 makes you a gun nut as well.

Otherwise, movies frequently depict guns in an implausible manner. Guns make noise when being pointed at someone (if your gun makes that type of noise when you move it, don't even pull the trigger), empty autoloader pistols make empty revolver sounds when the trigger is pulled, and this several times in a row and my favorite: characters engage in heavy firefights with no ear protection and have no hearing issues after that, when they should be deaf, their ears ringing from permanent eardrum damage (hello tinnitis).

As for the incredible magazine capacity, I believe that seeing the characters drop a magazine and slide a new one then keep on shooting would look dramatic, and would probably raise less eyebrows regarding the so-called "Hollyweird magazine capacity syndrome", but it is also very possible that only licensed armorers are allowed to do this on a movie set, as they are in charge of making sure the firearm is safe to use by the actors and extras, in order to avoid a Brandon Lee incident.

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It's not outside the realms of possibility that films have inaccuracies especially massive projects like Mesrine.

It really doesn't matter overall and I'm sure there are other more 'serious' mistakes. The fact that he fires 12 bullets instead of 8 from a certain type of gun has no bearing on the story.

You're probably right though, filmmakers don't care sometimes about this kind of thing which is perfectly understandable within the context of making a film and worrying more about shot framing, acting, schedules, money, etc.

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It's not outside the realms of possibility that films have inaccuracies especially massive projects like Mesrine.

I agree. That's why this thread in no way indicates that such errors are ever outside the realms of possibility.

It really doesn't matter overall...

Let's agree to disagree on that one.

...and I'm sure there are other more 'serious' mistakes.

I don't doubt you're right. I could even highlight a few myself, but this particular mistake is the one I chose to discuss since the subject interests me; hope that's okay.

The fact that he fires 12 bullets instead of 8 from a certain type of gun has no bearing on the story.

This is very true. Again however, I feel you've missed the point of the thread. My aim is not to discuss the effect of such errors on the story; merely the circumstances of the errors themselves.

You're probably right though, filmmakers don't care sometimes about this kind of thing which is perfectly understandable within the context of making a film and worrying more about shot framing, acting, schedules, money, etc.

Thank you for making a relevant contribution to the thread.

I empathise with filmmakers and their doubtless exhausting efforts but I find errors like these inexplicably difficult to forgive. I admit it's mostly because I'm anal about the issue, but I'm sure most films that feature gunplay have weapons specialists on-hand. Why these people are ignored or rather why they don't pipe up in the first place is what rubs me the wrong way.

I suppose in my initial post I gave the impression that I blame the key figures solely for these mistakes, and I take that back; the directors and producers are obviously not personally responsible for every minute detail of a film's development and they'll constantly have their hands full.

I still think it's unfortunate though - with a dedicated cast and crew - that these things slip through the cracks, no matter how insignificant they may be considered by the majority.

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Try www.imfdb.org

They may have the details.

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Oh wow thanks, never heard of it. 5 star post :)

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Yes I do find it very irritating...especially for example when a revolver is fired more times than what it could hold.

Would it really be that much effort to keep it realistic?

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Would it really be that much effort to keep it realistic?
Exactly, couldn't agree more. Again though, I do love this film and very much appreciate the hard work that went into it.

Out of interest gamma209 (assuming you've seen the film), what did you think of it and what made you visit the IMDB boards?

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phlupple:
You are very observant, and there's nothing wrong with that.
While I am aware that there are high-capacity customised magazines for automatic pistols, I don't know if there are any for the Colt 1911 which can hold that many rounds.
It is certainly food for thought, and grounds for further research.

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Thanks for the contribution yj270. Have you seen the film?

I know it's far from a premier source - especially considering the context - but Wikipedia has a reasonably fleshed out article on the 1911 with no mention of high-capacity magazines.

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Hello phlupple,

Yes, I've seen the film countless times.

There are manufacturers who make custom magazines for the Colt 1911, for .45 ACP. They can go from 8 to 15 rounds.

The Colt 1911 is one of the most customised automatic pistols out on the market. This has been well documented for a very long time.

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I don't get it...

7 hours ago, you said:

While I am aware that there are high-capacity customised magazines for automatic pistols, I don't know if there are any for the Colt 1911 which can hold that many rounds.

Now you're saying:
The Colt 1911 is one of the most customised automatic pistols out on the market. This has been well documented for a very long time.

Have I missed something?

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Well, when I wrote my first reponse, I was somewhat aware that such things existed. I should have let you know that I researched it on the web in the meantime, and I found definite examples of high capacity magazines for sale.
Sorry about the omission.

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No problem mate. Regardless, it doesn't look like Mesrine is using one in that scene. Agree?

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I agree totally. I might be opening a can of worms here, but I'm pretty sure that in the prison break scene, Mesrine and his fellow escapee are using M16A2 rifles to attack the prison - I believe the scene was meant to be set in the 70's yet this version of the M16 (with the distinctive foregrip) hadn't been developed yet and wasn't even introduced to the US military until the mid 80's, let alone criminals outside of the US.

Probably not something that 99% of people would care about, but something that could have been avoided with a tiny amount of research.

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Wow Silent-Knight, can of worms indeed.

I'll check that out. Can anyone else offer any clarity on that particular matter?

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This one doesn't seem to go away.
Really, this is a case of 'maybe so', 'maybe not'.
On the one hand, those who point out the technical accuracies of these particular Colt firearms may be right...
BUT, on the other hand, the basic designs of both weapons has been licensed out to countless other manufacturers than Colt. In a place that is chock full of weapons like the USA, it is quite common to see these other weapons for sale on the market. Likewise, there are weapons made strictly for police, military, or intelligence use, which don't receive public scrutiny.
Therefore, it could go both ways, from my point of view.
a. Richet blew it, when it came to historical accuracy of weapons in the Mesrine films
or
b. It doesn't really matter, since the real Mesrine had access to weapons from the black market, stolen outright, purchased legitimately, claimed as war trophies, and from his intelligence connections.

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i just read this whole thread and want ten minutes of my life back.

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[deleted]

In the previous post, we can see a small example of the customisation for pistols based on Browning's Colt 1911 designs.

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You still can't make more than 8 bullets fit in that single-stack magazine, unless it is a 22LR or 9mm model, which are usually used by target shooters who like consistency.

Otherwise they are all 45 ACP, and it's a big ass caliber, which is why you can't fit more than 8 rounds ina 1911.

Like most European gangsters of that time, he uses a 1911, one of those that France received from the US after WWII.

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Totally agree with u on this OP...i didnt notice it in the movie when i saw it, but i usually do notice details like this in most movies...and i hate it when the realistic detalis fails like with "unlimited" ammunition in weapons, especially when the movie want to be as realistic as Mesrine wants.

~If the realistic details fails, the movie fails~

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I'm pretty sure the gun was a Browning Hi Power. It would have been the standard side arm of France and it was originally also a John Browning design; it looks a lot like a 1911.

It's chambered in 9mm and thus holds a good dozen rounds or so in the magazine. Stock 1911s hold 7 + 1 in the chamber, although magazines come in many sizes. Anything over 8 rounds protrudes; the stock "G.I." magazines fit flush.

They've made millions of Hi Powers since the 1930s but they seem uncommon in the US.

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Interesting. I am familiar with the Browning Hi Power (it was the British Army's standard side arm too) but at the time I was certain he was using a 1911. Having said that though, they do indeed look similar and I could have made a mistake; it would make sense. I'll definitely look out for it next time I see the film.

Thanks a lot mobo :)

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No, it was a 1911. The infamous "onze quarante-trois" (for 11.43mm, the metric translation of .45 inches) that most French gangsters used back then and still use now.

Cops where then equipped with 7.65mm (.32), then .357 (either Colt Python or Manurhin MR73). Now they carry Glocks like most cops in the world.

I too am 100% convinced he uses 1911s in this movie, as he did in real life.

Not sure about the Berettas, though, especially the full automatic model. Not really his style.

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imfdb.org confirms he is using a colt .45. That said, there are dozens of pistolsmiths who can convert an otherwise-unexceptional-looking 1911-style Colt so that it can handle a higher capacity mag.

Also, the Beretta 92 he's using in the film is an anachronism, as is the Post-Ban M16A2 during the attempted prison break.

It's me, Gloria, I left my driver's licence on the table, next to the fruit!

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does he have an extended mag? and don't think just because you can't buy it, that it doesn't exist.

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There are far bigger mistakes with guns that movies frequently make. Didn't this movie have a gun with a silencer in one part? Silencers are always shown to make the gun extremely quiet yet in reality they are still extremely loud. http://www.cracked.com/article_18576_5-ridiculous-gun-myths-everyone-believes-thanks-to-movies.html I talked to somebody in the FBI about some of these. The only one that he told me was a bit off is the part about how you don't need to cock shotguns. Some shotguns do need to be cocked after each shot and some don't.

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This is odd: I just watched this movie in a dubbed version and I'm almost certain they did cut out the last few gun shots in the scene you're referring too. I counted eight shots.

So to be certain I re-watched the French original and indeed you can count twelve shots, but in the dubbed version the last ones when he is out of camera are not heard, and possibly one or two more when he moves to the center of the street firing at the running car...

Maybe someone have taken notice of this thread too? ;)

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