MovieChat Forums > Loot (2009) Discussion > I Had A Hard Time With This Film **SPOIL...

I Had A Hard Time With This Film **SPOILERS**


The more I think about this film, the more I believe that both of the older gentlemen were mentally ill and either not remembering clearly, or imagining things altogether.

This made me feel a bit squeamish, the same way I am uncomfortable when they show the worst "American Idol" contestants' auditions. The contestants apparently think they're good singers, but there is something wrong with them mentally, and I am too embarrassed to look.

I got the same sensation watching this film, as though the audience is a witness to these people's slide downward into dementia, delusion, or something similar. Even though the men gave their consent to be filmed, I wonder if they had any inkling of what was really happening?

I don't think that the film-maker necessarily erred in making this film; but there was something uncomfortable about it, as if the people were naked, yet unaware of that fact, and consented to filming nonetheless.

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Both men are in their 80's. Old age and dementia, does not equal mental illness. WWII ended over 60 years ago. Even a sprite and healthy octogenarian would have trouble recalling details and happenings from all those decades ago.

It is painful to watch, yes, but it's just a fact of life.

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@ Dr Gerbil
I agree with you and your assessment of, as I call him, "The pack-rat dude" I do think he was mentally ill, and not merely suffering from senile dementia. As for the other gentlemen, the one in Germany, I think he was still pretty sharp witted and well adjusted. I think the "treasure hunt" he was on was ultimately successful because he was able to obtain closure with his war memories, which at that stage of his life was infinitely more valuable.

The young guy, (can't remember his name) seemed every bit as delusional as the pack rat dude, and seemed to me to prove how greed, once engaged, over rides common sense. I also agree about becoming squeamish in the face of the ugliness that was revealed in these two peoples character (I also have to look away if if someone is obliviously bad on "Idol", I actually get sympathy pains, weird, huh?)


I've....seen things you people wouldn't believe; Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.

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I dont think you have to be old to have false memories. It comes natural to some young people too. I'm wondering which details about abusing japanese prisoners wasn't accurate? The japanese govt never complained about atrocities against japanese pow's because the fact they surrendered was a matter of honor - a sensitive subject. That was a racial war, that we haven't heard the worst about yet.

The fact the german and american could remember the time one was singing and the other listening, should mean those memories were accurate.

"Death, has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war." Donald Rumsfeld

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To 20th Century:

We ALL suffer from false memories. My point was that it seemed pretty severe in this case.

Also, part of something you remember could be accurate, and another part could be imagined.

Since our minds play so many tricks on us, I really gave very little credence to what these men were saying. Not lying deliberately, but confused, as anyone could be.

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The subject of memory alterations interests me, to the point that my main motivation for reestablishing contact with an old aquaintance is just to see what their recollection of an event was, that affected both of us. Its usually been something different than what i remembered. If so, i try not to bias an answer when questioning them a lil further. Its more of a test of my own memories and i'm not afraid of the truth, if theres a possibility that i've made something up to myself. This is important to me because i want to believe a memory is accurate enough to rely on it in the future.

My self verdict so far, is not to rely too much on some important memories and always maintain at least a small measure of self doubt.

As far as the guy in germany, ... my last viewing of this doc started close to the end and i didn't see anything but what a normal memory might exhibit. Was there something notable before that?
As i mentioned, he did remember what kind of songs he had been singing that the german heard, when he was hiding from the americans. He seemed to have an accurate memory of where the house was and that was confirmed by a resident there, who showed him a picture of the structure, before it was torn down. They told him the other structure nearby was from that era, but he knew that was a waste of time to go looking in it.

We were a military family that moved every 2 years and then i moved around in the service too - didn't settle down for a few more years. So, its been a quest to revisit as many of those places as possible. Its common to lose bearings when new roads or housing is constructed. What was very confusing fro me though was when i couldn't find a whole mountain ridge that was in back of our home in the philippines. Turned out at the time that the confusion was due to viewing the hills from a distance and from an angle i wasn't familiar with. I had a love affair with those hills, so that really threw me for a loop, when i started scanning for them but couldn't find it. Talk about "loot", those hills were battlefields between the US and japanese and the treasure for us jr high schoolers was finding ww2 battle souvenirs that were still lying around 20 yrs after the war. If i had gone back there a couple years, later, i would have been able to use the excuse of the volcano altering the lanscape - which is what mount pinatubo did in 1991. That was weird.

On discovery recently, the former marine in "return to tarawa" was openly wondering how good his memory was and asked himself a few times, "was that what really happened?" "Did i really say those things?" about some pretty substantial stuff. Personally, i didn't see that as mentally defective, rather, it was the opposite. I see too many younger people too confident in their flawed memories and not in the least bit concerned about their memory possibly being false. I'll bet the people questioning their own memories will have a better record of accuracy than those who dont.

Ray knew he had done something wrong to japanese prisoners but couldn't remember what - i doubt i could have that great a lapse about something like that. This reminds me of a theory of mine, that i relate to some online HS alumni from the PI. Alot of them have faint memories of some things and strong ones of others, however trivial. My strongest memories are of interesting things that got my heart beating, for whatever reason. We also tend to forget things that were unpleasant (duh). It sounded like ray didn't care very much about the hidden loot in the PI (i forgot what he said it was) so may have not put enough value on retaining it. He didn't seem to need it. I wonder if he was really after the memory of what went down there in 1945, since he was more worried about his approaching judgment day, than if a treasure was still there.


"Death, has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war"Donald Rumsfeld

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To 20th Century:

Near the beginning of the film, the gentleman who had been in Germany claimed that the hidden items would still be where he left them because "people don't go up on their roofs that often."

Now, this is not an example of a false memory, but it is an example of poor reasoning.

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It's not just age. My Grandpa, on my Father's side is 90 and he's got a memory as sharp as a tack. My Grandmother on my Mom's side is mid 80's and has dementia, her Mother and her sister were both institutionalized for it. She's paranoid and spacey, she makes up things from the past, she's so sure that something happened a certain way that she'll get into screaming arguments with everyone, she takes a lot of different pills that trip her out of her mind. I've dealt with both kinds of elderly people so I know it's not just age.

My other Grandpa died in 2006, he served in the War and he remembered things so vividly it was scary. I actually had the opportunity to go to Normandy and the D-Day beaches back in 2003 as part of my trip to France for High School Graduation. Before I went, he told me some of the History of what he experienced and saw while he was over there. He wrote letters home and he still had them in one of his old war trunks. It is amazing what you can learn from people like your Grandparents and all those experiences, those are the things that textbooks just don't teach you. When I was standing there in Normandy, especially seeing all those rows and rows of graves, it really hit me hard, as it should.

In a way, I do believe that these men or other men like them, maybe did have some treasure they hid during the war, but the ravages of time are harsh. To do something like this now, after so long, is such a duck shoot. Maybe the treasure has already been found. The interesting thing about the pack rat guy was all the money he had laying around all over the place, thousands of dollars! It made me think that he did have the treasure and he turned it in for money a long time ago but forgot about it. The money didn't even matter to him. Also the trauma of losing his son probably set him off on some kind of mental breakdown and at least this treasure hunt gave him something do with his life. They both wanted some kind of atonement or closure.

An interesting thing about these documentaries to me lies in the camera work. The way the camera can get the expressions and reactions of others so subtly without even saying anything, it speaks louder than words ever could. Zooming in on certain objects or filming from certain angles. I saw how the camera man would show some of the people rolling their eyes or laugh like they thought it was just the ramblings of an old man. Maybe it is and maybe it isn't. We'll never really know for sure.

To me this film was heartening. It really dug deep, it was about way more than treasure hunting. I would have been surprised if they had discovered treasure. But I think the point of it, was self discovery. Each one of them uncovered something about themselves in the process, a deeper treasure than anything else. The best documentaries in my opinion are about unearthing raw and sometimes uncomfortable emotion. Each person watching can get something out of it in whatever way they want.

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