MovieChat Forums > Conviction (2010) Discussion > hard to get into when the brother was so...

hard to get into when the brother was so unsympathetic

posted 13 years ago by scottcloney
14 replies | jump to latest

I tried to like this move and cheer for the sisters fight against the system. But the movie failed to make me actually want to get Kenny out of jail. In his trial Both female witnesses accuse Kenny of assaulting them. Also Kenny attacks a patron in the bar scene and threatens to kill him with a broken beer bottle. Not personally sure if pointing out Kenny's questionable parenting techniques was justification enough for this

Now both women later recanted the part of their testimony where they said Kenny admitted to the murder, however no one in the movie ever bothered to try and account for the abuse allegations. So in the movie alone we see or hear about Kenny committing three serious assaults. To me, them just leaving this hanging out there ruined the movie for me.

Yes, I wanted the dirty cop to get hers, yes I wanted Betty Anne's sacrifices to be worth something. Although all I could keep thinking was how she was flushing her life down the drain to get someone out of jail who, if convicted of the crimes he did actually commit, would have spend a fair amount of those years there anyway. 10-15 years for several serious assaults doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

Anyway, not saying the real life Kenny Waters deserved to be in jail, I know nothing of the story other than the movie. Just saying where the movie went from a well acted movie with many of my favorite actors to something that frustrated me was when they failed to make me cheer at all to get Kenny out of jail as he was portrayed as far from an " innocent" and more of an " innocent of this particular crime"

My two cents.

[–] TheManInOil 12 years ago

Jesus what a *beep* up attitude.

First of all, whether he's guilty of 'this particular crime' is ALL that matters. Period.

Second, the movie was already full of sappy efforts to whitewash away any ambiguity, and it's not enough for you? You want it to be Santa Clause that gets hauled off or you just can't care enough?

In real life, I'm sure many people who are falsely accused are not angels. The triumph when justice is done isn't just their triumph - the fact that a wrongful conviction would be overturned is good news for all of us.

Besides that, this particular movie gives you a virtual martyr in the sister. You're supposed to care because she cares and is a decent person. You're supposed to want her to get what she needs to get - a sense of justice and the return of her brother.

The fact that they admitted a little (usually portrayed more as playful naughtiness) of the brother's imperfection to show would put you off makes you shockingly shallow imo.

"I'll book you. I'll book you on something. I'll find something in the book to book you on."

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] mxlflx 12 years ago

We only saw one assault and it was of a man, that could be construed as 'having it coming.' Those women got on the stand and said what they were told to say. Clearly, the abuse accusations were just the right sort of thing to make this bad guy unworthy of justice. Way to go, you know exactly how dirty cops and prosecutors pull your strings to get a conviction. They wouldn't do it if it didn't work.

I still believe. Do you still believe? - Earl Hickey

[–] baconbit 12 years ago

Sorry unevolved neanderthal, but not one "has it coming" when it comes to assault. REAL men...real HUMAN BEINGS (of which you are apparently not) don't settle things with violence.

[–] mxlflx 12 years ago

baconbits:

con·strued con·stru·ing
Definition of CONSTRUE
transitive verb
1: to analyze the arrangement and connection of words in (a sentence or sentence part)
2: to understand or explain the sense or intention of usually in a particular way or with respect to a given set of circumstances <You construed my verbage as hostile.> <Kenny construed that the enlightened gentleman was condescending to him, so Kenny put the physically ill-equipped gentleman in his place quite effectively. The gentleman apologized to Kenny after construing the message about mouths writing checks that hands cannot cash.>

Now that we have the vocabulary lesson out of the way, I am glad you got that off your bird-chest, enlightened one.

REAL men...real HUMAN BEINGS (of which you are apparently not) don't settle things with violence.

That has to be the patently most naive thing I have ever read. Is your mother standing over your shoulder, you knob? Violence settles much, including who is going to make the rules, dictate the plan, own the resources, and be remembered in history; even who gets to state an opinion when you back down from a more aggressive 'illusory man' in front of your likely more assertive wife and kids, while they shiver in fear in the wan glow of your enlightenment. You twit, you are free to state an opinion from the safety of your mother's basement, you woke up from an alarm clock this morning likely instead of AK-47 fire, you got to work without being stopped ID-ed, and/or taxed by a gang blockade--if you have a job. Do you have any idea why, you vagina wart? Its not because your bloody neighbors are evolved, its because 'neanderthals' --whom you apparently think you are better than, and have never met you--stand ready to do violence on your behalf. Yes, people who do not even know you are giving their lives violently for the safety of your unworthy hide. All those fake, toy soldier neanderthals dying and killing on your behalf must not have got the memo of your predominant philosophy, they keep getting sent out to kill and be killed. Lastly, you inane mouthpiece, real men were EVOLVED to do violence. You could not even stuff your mealy-mouth with Big Macs everyday unless someone committed violence on your behalf, much less looking back to times real men survived before fences and agriculture. You are the fruit, the barren, emasculated fruit of real men who committed much real violence so that you could be born to spout nonsense. That bubble you live in must have a plush toilet, you can't smell your own shyt.

And why are you attacking me anyway, if you are so evolved? Are your words not intended to harm like fists, you hypocrite?

I still believe. Do you still believe? - Earl Hickey

[–] savaslikesmovies 12 years ago

Wow.. what a rant.... it was just so epic, you destroyed him on all levels.

BUT... violence ultimately has no place in society. Defence is your right and the universe is very big, if not infinite, so forever we shall have defence, but as we evolve; we can't keep committing violence at a civil level in society. The same concept when you're locked in a room with someone, if you're both trying to get out, the last thing you want is to waste all your energy in fighting each other, specially if you need the other to get out.

[–] Kawada_Kira 12 years ago

That guy's ass must still be hurting after that post. You ripped him apart so spectacularly, his ancestors must have felt it. His ancestors' doctors must have felt it. His ancestors' doctors' pet dogs must have felt it. Just... epic.

"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious."
- Oscar Wilde

[–] CatrionaM 8 years ago

"That has to be the patently most naive thing I have ever read. Is your mother standing over your shoulder, you knob? Violence settles much, including who is going to make the rules, dictate the plan, own the resources, and be remembered in history; even who gets to state an opinion when you back down from a more aggressive 'illusory man' in front of your likely more assertive wife and kids, while they shiver in fear in the wan glow of your enlightenment. You twit, you are free to state an opinion from the safety of your mother's basement, you woke up from an alarm clock this morning likely instead of AK-47 fire, you got to work without being stopped ID-ed, and/or taxed by a gang blockade--if you have a job. Do you have any idea why, you vagina wart? Its not because your bloody neighbors are evolved, its because 'neanderthals' --whom you apparently think you are better than, and have never met you--stand ready to do violence on your behalf. Yes, people who do not even know you are giving their lives violently for the safety of your unworthy hide. All those fake, toy soldier neanderthals dying and killing on your behalf must not have got the memo of your predominant philosophy, they keep getting sent out to kill and be killed. Lastly, you inane mouthpiece, real men were EVOLVED to do violence. You could not even stuff your mealy-mouth with Big Macs everyday unless someone committed violence on your behalf, much less looking back to times real men survived before fences and agriculture. You are the fruit, the barren, emasculated fruit of real men who committed much real violence so that you could be born to spout nonsense. That bubble you live in must have a plush toilet, you can't smell your own shyt.

And why are you attacking me anyway, if you are so evolved? Are your words not intended to harm like fists, you hypocrite?"

But none of that has any real relevance to what's mentioned. Violence in necessary situations, like saving yourself or others, is different from abusive, bad tempered violence. The moment a person lashes out against someone and uses more force than they have to, is the moment they become an abuser. There's no point in using ancestors as examples because they are hardly good role models for a civilized society. Rape wasn't illegal back then, neither was slavery. I've lost count of how many times I've read about people saying a child molester "deserved" to be brutally murdered by parents, or angry inmates in prison. Whether or not they deserve it, is it necessary? Does it fix anything? Is it justifiable to beat someone to a pulp even when they weren't attacking you? People should treat others how they want to be treated.

[–] worldofsnail 10 years ago

He's a God-damned American leading with his fists - bombing your homes and building a McDonalds. Violence solves EVERYTHING. 'Oh say can you seeeeee...'

[–] MuchToBeGratefulFor 12 years ago

the fact that a wrongful conviction would be overturned is good news for all of us.

That's really the bottom line here. And the fact that someone was wrongfully convicted in the first place (which happens far too often) is BAD news for all of us, even if the person is unsympathetic. That's why I didn't find this movie "hard to get into".

You must be the change you seek in the world. -- Gandhi

[–] Doc80 9 years ago

Yep, the fact that Kenny wasn't an angel makes his conviction and imprisonment all the more tragic in my eyes. Because of his violent history and issues with the authorities in the past he was pretty much convicted before the trial ever took place. I mean no one was going to believe him with his history and that is the issue with the criminal justice system. Justice is supposed to be blind and therefore past activity should not be brought up.

[–] spookyrat1 10 years ago

...he was portrayed as far from an " innocent" and more of an " innocent of this particular crime"

What can I say except that it's a largely true story and as such, it is admitted to all and sundry that Kenny Waters is not the nicest guy on the planet by any means. But the fact is, if you didn't do the crime, as his sister proved, you shouldn't be doing the time.

Usually with these sort of "true" stories the producers get criticized for sanitizing characters. Here you've gone the other way and want a flawed true character, given a white-wash, so you can enjoy a feel good movie. Go figure.

[–] Kent_Kainer 9 years ago

I liked that Kenny wasnt portrayed like the nice guy from the neighborhood.
He was a man I wouldnt want to anger and who probably would have gotten himself in conflicts with the law anyway as he obviously had problems with his temper in offensive situations.

However, its not the sympathy of a person at trial here.
Its the setup, the manipulation of argumentations and witnesses by single individuals who work for law and order. Such ppl are the last ones you want to become criminals.

Doing so ruined pursuing the real murderer. Even as a family member of the murdered woman Id be pissed about that and sue whatever I can sue for this unjustice.

---
Lincoln Lee: I lost a partner.
Peter Bishop: I lost a universe!

[–] manlistowel 8 years ago

here in my country there was a man accused of murder

his name was Gerry Conlon

they act like he was innocent

i believe he was someway responsible

did you know he was in an IRA youth group?