How did Alexander Pearce know? - The Tourist (2010) Discussion

[–] elyse-vanherk 13 years ago

What about the guy that kept receiving texts from Alexander that got arrested at the end? Could it be possible that he was supposed to be the decoy but then Elise chose Frank because she somehow subconciously "knew" it was him? She did look at him for a while on the train but kept going...

Or at least Alexander made him go on the train so he'd have more chances that even if she picked the wrong guy it could still work out?

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[–] Lecourbe-14 13 years ago

Yea Rufus' character may have been the original decoy I think.
But I think Elise knew she was suppose to find her guy
at that train compartment after seeing number "22" on the door.
She did get on an 8.22 train and so in my opinion,
she had a feeling about the number.

"You make your life what it is but there's always a point where fate comes in"

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[–] soulflyhigh 13 years ago

It wasn't 22, it was just 2. For 2nd class, notice how the seats aren't nearly as nice as the first compartment?
Was just a flaw in the movie.

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[–] Dan2108 13 years ago

I agree with Soulflyhigh. That was a plot hole the size of Uranus.

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[–] mikainen 12 years ago

That is not a plot hole. If she had picked someone else, Pearce would have made a another try later. Anyway, she did not take him to hotel straight from the train.

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[–] lyliakar 11 years ago

I agree. He was lucky but he would have made it so as to "meet her" by chance. I honestly liked the movie, although I figured out the twist in the plot half way through it. And of course it's absurd, but it's a movie :)

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[–] kebeq 13 years ago

Well it was two 2's on the door and he seemed to be the only smoking guy around there.

got salt?

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[–] pepamint83 13 years ago

Both doors for 2nd class had a 2 on it So it looks like 22

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[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] ada_rockchick 13 years ago

I honestly thought she knew it was him all along, I mean he must have told her about the surgeries and all. I thought the whole charade was for the investigators and the ppl who were following them.
Do you honestly think she chose and fell in love with frank without realising it was alexander?
I thought from their dialogue at the end near the seif that she knew frank was alexander all the time...?

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[–] C.S.Wood 13 years ago

I honestly thought she knew it was him all along

Then why leave him on the dock at the airport?

I think I could have accepted the ending if, at some point, she had figured it out. Sorta like a subtle "ah-ha" moment (when they kissed, maybe?). Then you could explain away her actions throughout the rest of the movie as either keeping up the pretending for the police's benefit (the police were listening in on their conversation at the ball) or just to screw around with him.

But unfortunately nothing she did would lead me to believe she knew it was really him, and the movie suffers because they want to pull a big silly twist. The only way the ending could have been more ridiculous is if Depp woke up and it was all a dream.

Don't try to cash in love, that check will always bounce.

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[–] edwardrevans 12 years ago

Elise knew Frank was Alexander all along.. it was all part of the cat and mouse game, total diversion from the start. And as for the twist there wasn't one I could see where this was going early on, she was told to be on a train at a certain time.

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[–] DamascusRoad 13 years ago

She knew all along. Obviously.

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[–] ben101-1 13 years ago

The book frank was reading,shows up several times ,must have a relevance.I think it was a spy novel,probably indicating to elise that frank would probably embrace some excitement from his boring "real life".

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[–] Rogue-32 13 years ago

"That was a plot hole the size of Uranus." -- Absolutely, one of many which made the movie an amateurish production in the end.

I had thought early on - during the train scene, in fact - 'What if Depp is actually Alexander Pierce, that would be cool.' But then, when she kissed him in the hotel room and she failed to connect that is indeed WAS him, I kind of changed my mind. That was another HUGE plot hole, I think, because that kiss would've revealed his true identity to her; you can't alter a kiss with plastic surgery.

http://www.roguesreviews.com;Giamatti:movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/talkpaul/

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[–] adarkhorse 13 years ago

That is a very mythical movie cliche. That you can recognise someone with a kiss.

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[–] GaelinW 13 years ago

I had thought early on - during the train scene, in fact - 'What if Depp is actually Alexander Pierce, that would be cool.' But then, when she kissed him in the hotel room and she failed to connect that is indeed WAS him, I kind of changed my mind. That was another HUGE plot hole, I think, because that kiss would've revealed his true identity to her; you can't alter a kiss with plastic surgery.

I have to agree with this. Pierce could change his face. He could change his voice. But he couldn't change the way he kissed the woman he loved. The way he held her in his arms.

Moreover, he wouldn't be able to change the little things. The way he held his cigarette (fake or not) between his fingers. The way he would have held it in his mouth. Chewed on the tip of it.

These little things Elise should have noticed, his being the man she loved and all. Even moreso given she's a trained government agent.

That said, maybe it was some little thing that she noticed subconsciously in Frank to make her choose him. I don't think she knew it was him until the end. Though, really she should have after the kiss. Bettany's character said, she lived with Pierce for a year. A woman doesn't live with a man for a year and not pick up on these things.

Maybe she's a flake. That's the only conclusion I can come to regarding her obtuseness. Bettany said, she falls in love with anyone she spends longer than a train ride with. We don't know if he meant that literally or figuratively since he was obviously jealous. I'm going to take it literally.

Pierce disappeared so she forgot all about him in preparation for the next guy she was going to fall for.

If you can't walk and talk/text at the same time, do the rest of us a favor and get out of the way.

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[–] Tyler-A-Arse 12 years ago

I thought she knew the whole time. Maybe she didn't. Hell, I really don't know. The only thing I do know for sure is that this movie was horrible.

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[–] zachanscom 12 years ago

that's stupid as hell. a pucker kiss isn't like a fingerprint of dna, it's exactly the same for everyone.

also, he may have been feigning the kiss at that point. their real kiss is the french kiss in the dream sequence and the end.

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[–] moosefeathers 12 years ago

read the trivia section and you'll know how she knew:

Alexander's note tells Elise to take the 8:22 train to Venice. On the train, Frank Tupelo is sitting in the eighth seat of the twenty second car.

Swing away, Merrill....Merrill, swing away...

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[–] wmeyerson-119-935702 9 years ago

EASY GOER

As far as a numerical connection, I think yours is the best. On another thought, what about pheremones? From what I have read, this (debateably) occurs the most in the beginning of sexual attraction; however, I don't believe it ceases (as long as they still have them). This would especially be true in their case, having been apart for so long. I am in no way a scientist, but in my own experience and (I assume) most people who have experienced the same, it certainly seems to occur.

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[–] ffattahi 13 years ago

I have not read all the replies, but my answer to the question of the topic is, that he didn't. Otherwise he would not have gotten into the trouble that he did. He had expected things to go much more smoothly, it all went the way it did because she accidentally chose him.

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[–] flo116 13 years ago

Interesting so you think she was suppose to pick someone else and he was just there to observe... could be. He got into so much trouble because he didn't expect Shaw to find out what he was up to. Not knowing Shaw had a spy at Scotland Yard.

"Close your eyes and pretend it is all a dream, that's how I get by."

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[–] ffattahi 13 years ago

Yep. That's the only thing that makes perfect sense.

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[–] Matt_Layden 13 years ago

I would believe the ending better if it weren't for the scene with Jolie taking his handcuffs off in the boat. They are alone and if she knew it was him, which is what I have come to the conclusion to regarding the whole film, then why have a conversation about who they are and why they are involved in this situation?

If she didn't know it was him, where is the "oh, it's you" moment. She knew it before he opened the safe because she said I love you. I think she chose him because she either knew or subconsciously knew it was him.

http://onefilmadayreview.blogspot.com/

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[–] sabalon1 13 years ago

in retrospect, i think a wink-wink moment would have been the conversation that frank was having talking about 'what alexander didn't plan on was shaw showing up, so it threw off his smooth plan' or something like that.

if it werent for the dolt leaving the frank pic on the screen, the mole would have never gotten the information to shaw. take shaw out of the evolution of the film and it might have ran smoother. scotland yard bought the fake teacher from wisconsin and completely dismissed him. that would have left frank/alex to run around the entire film doing what he wanted without scotland yard giving a rip - its not alex to them. lol

she left frank with breakfast on the couch, off on her day. she goes to the ball that night, the letter is given to her, they meet at the end. the decoy tourist draws scoltand yard away, they get the money from the safe and are off.

if it wasn't for my horse, i wouldn't have spent that year in college

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[–] dcsepc 13 years ago

what?! I had no doubt that she knew it was him all along and that the things she did (like leaving him at the dock) were to confuse the police (and the viewers)
Now you're saying that she didn't knew? I need to talk to the writers..

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[–] celina361 13 years ago

I haven't read all the replies but I thought Johnny Depp was Alexander Pierce and she didn't know til the end because she talks about his face in the end on the boat and that it'll have to do.

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[–] luvjd 13 years ago

I've seen it twice now and on both viewings I've seen nothing to indicate to me that she knew Frank was Pearce all along. However, I also find it hard to believe she didn't see something underneath all the plastic surgery that didn't tip her off.

Yes, you are hurting sheep by hoarding them.

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[–] jp_zm 13 years ago

I thought that she knew it was him all along and that everything that happened was part of a plan so they could run off together. The people that Elise was working for pretty much took care of Shaw's group for them. I don't think there was any plastic surgery either- I think it was all part of their plan.

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[–] luvjd 13 years ago

I don't think there was any plastic surgery either

Did Shaw show any sign that he recognized Frank as Pearce? I missed that if he did.

Yes, you are hurting sheep by hoarding them.

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[–] jp_zm 13 years ago

If I understood correctly, yes, because the whole story was about how Frank looked just like Pearce. Right?? Maybe not. I need to watch it again!

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[–] Mayhem81 13 years ago

No, the whole story was about how no one really knew what Alexander looked like, except Elise and Shaw. Elise was supposed to pick a decoy to throw the police off. I don't think it was part of the plan for Elise to pick Frank, it should have been the Englishman (Sewell's character) but he didn't stand out enough for her. Bettany's character knew Alexander had surgery but couldn't prove it. In the safe scene, Shaw gave a brief rundown of what was wrong, why Frank couldn't be Alexander, but Frank quickly shot them down with one explanation after another. When Shaw brought up his accent, Frank dropped the American accent and spoke in his English accent. This was the Ah Ha moment for Elise. She did not know it was Alexander when he came into the room, but she knew when he walked past her towards the safe and mouthed I Love You.

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[–] DejaMooo 13 years ago

I'm glad I read these posts, it has cleared up several puzzling issues for me.

I rewatched the movie today and a second viewing helped a LOT!! I think it was a coincidence that Elise chose Frank on the train. The first thing he says to her is "I'm sorry".... and she asks "Why?" He doesn't have an answer. A lot of different emotions flash across his face but he never explains why he apologized. He obviously is still in love with Elise and he left her for 2 years - he wants another chance with her. What would you say if you came face to face with someone you very much loved (to come back after a 2 year absence) and you had dumped them without a word? For a second he might have thought she recognized him .. and then he remembered he didn't look the same. There is no other reason that his very first words to her (even if he was pretending it was just a meeting between strangers) would be "I'm Sorry". Perhaps she was drawn to him, perhaps it was the mystery novel or the cigarette - who knows. But I think it was just lucky chance that he was her choice.

I also don't believe she knew who he was until the end. I'm not sure what tipped her off, but the accent? I didn't think he spoke with his english accent because his comment was something about how it was easier to use an American accent now. Come on - for ANYONE the easiest accent would be the one you have used for the majority of your life. Plus with the voice chip implanted, whether he used his english accent or not - he would NOT have sounded like the old Alexander.

I can't think of his name at the moment, but the one agent kept saying "He will come for her, I KNOW he will come for her". Perhaps she knew it too.. and the one person who came for her was Frank. I also noticed that Frank became much more assertive and sure of himself and his words and actions the night of the ball. He was more like the Alexander you expect and not Frank the math teacher. All of it might have started adding up when Elise was standing by the safe with the gun to her head. Who knows. I may have to watch this again.

Ok.... now I gave this some thought. I wonder if Elise DID pick him out. He gave her a challenge to find him with his new face... and she went up to him and smiled that little smile. He says "I'm Sorry" - and they begin the plan to get everyone off their backs so that they can be together. Everything they did was planned so that everyone would believe he was nothing more than a tourist. They had no idea where cameras and bugs were planted and who was watching.

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[–] flmngogirl 13 years ago

I just watched this movie for the first time last night and I finished the movie believing that she did not know he was Alexander until he opened the safe. I'll watch it again to see if I see anything that makes me change my mind but I actually thought it was plain and then her question about the $20,000,000.00 plastic surgery after it was all done just reinforced it.

I also really like DejaMooo's explanation as to why Frank says "I'm sorry" and think now that he didn't plan for her to sit with him but rather the decoy whereas, while I was watching it, I thought that she had been drawn to him, blah, blah...

Anyhoo, like I said, I will watch it again to see if I see something I originally missed...

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[–] chrys_87 13 years ago

I really like all your explanations of how Elise was supposed to choose the decoy but accidentally picked Frank instead but somehow I don't think that was the plan as it wouldn't have made any sense.

Remember how Alex/Frank told her to burn the letter? I'm assuming he figured out the police would be able to save it anyway.

So if the original plan was for Elise to pick out the decoy and then let the police dismiss him, then the decoy would be kinda pointless to have the decoy in the first place.

It would make more sense if he planned for Elise to pick him and then have the police think he was some random tourist so he could walk right under their noses and not get caught.

Unless! Unless Alex/Frank didn't expect the police to be able to reassemble the letter and have the decoy be mistaken for Alex so the real Alex/Frank could meet Elise in the room after the ball and runaway together. But that's a really lousy plan coming from a supposedly international thief/mastermind so I doubt that's it.

In that case then the decoy was kinda weird/pointless, unless the whole point was to help draw the police's attention away in the end.

Okay. I'm confused.

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[–] ss454327-1 13 years ago

I thought she knew from the beginning who he was. The letter was sent in public knowing she was being watched. Why would she light the letter and walk away? She knew the cops were going to be able to read it but burning it would give them a head start. She pretended she didn't know who he was to make sure there was never a break in the ruse incase someone was watching or listening. The whole point was to get the Brits to take out Shaw and IMO the chief guy (who called in the order to kill Shaw) was in on it knowing he was going to get the huge payday.

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[–] AarOnHisBox 9 years ago

You are wrong. She mouthed I love you to FRANK, not ALEX. She thought FRANK was pretending to know the combination to try to save her. She was not supposed to have ANY CLUE. Frank just knew (ALEX knew) that her partners were outside (I think Elise knew this too though and was really pissed at how long Bettany's character let it go on for to try to get ALEX - she was almost killed and she was pissed, you could tell that in the END). At the end, ELISE still showed NO real recognition of it being ALEX until he opened the safe.

FRANK (ALEX) says "so you love me?" And Elise says "I do." And FRANK says "and how do you feel about ALEX these days?" And Elise says "I love him too." And that is when he is like "I think I may have a solution" and opens the safe.

Why is it people who don't know what they are talking about are always sure they do? It drives me insane. You're better off stupid. Being intelligent is quite lonely. Imagine, for you, if you lived in a world where 99.999% of everyone was as intelligent as a 7 year old. It's quite depressing considering those 7 year olds end up with most of the money and control the technologically advanced military and the nukes the 0.001% made possible.

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[–] elijahyael_08 9 years ago

You are wrong. She mouthed I love you to FRANK, not ALEX. She thought FRANK was pretending to know the combination to try to save her. She was not supposed to have ANY CLUE. Frank just knew (ALEX knew) that her partners were outside (I think Elise knew this too though and was really pissed at how long Bettany's character let it go on for to try to get ALEX - she was almost killed and she was pissed, you could tell that in the END). At the end, ELISE still showed NO real recognition of it being ALEX until he opened the safe.

FRANK (ALEX) says "so you love me?" And Elise says "I do." And FRANK says "and how do you feel about ALEX these days?" And Elise says "I love him too." And that is when he is like "I think I may have a solution" and opens the safe.

Exactly. Also when Frank/Alex says "I see" when Shaw doesn't give in to his demands, and Elise says "Now yous see", meaning something like, "You see Frank, you don't know this, and this is not how stuff like this works. Look what you've gotten yourself into." She still saw him as Frank and not Alex that moment.

There's more to attraction than meets the eye.

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[–] artistathome 12 years ago

What aabout his teeth? They were not perfect and Johnny Depps teeth are unique. So he said he had his teeth changed?

GMAb. It was a good twist, and I can understand plastic surgery. But he was two inches shorter than Pearce as well as the teeth being different.

This movie made a lot of mistakes. Pearce told Angelina to pick someone of his height. She did and yet at the end the Russian guy said Pearce had been taller.

The writers were not keeping track of what was previously mentioned.

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[–] oopendorf 13 years ago

Hahaha! You had the exact same reaction that I did to Superman Returns. I thought, in SR, that she knew all along as well. That is until I read the message board.

_______________________
"Don't argue with a fool. The spectators can't tell the difference."

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[–] jajceboy 13 years ago

I to believe that Frank didn't expect that Elyse would choose him. I think Elise was bout to choose the first guy she saw in the train, but when she saw that he was with a girl she moved to the next guy that resembled Alexander, without knowing that it was Alexander himself. So of course Alexander had to go along, pretending that he didn't knew.

I think that Alexander intended for Elise to choose someone else and he would follow and watch them, and protect them from bad guys. Thats why he looked so surprised when she choose him.

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[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] simonelwell 12 years ago

He must have set it up...

The whole plan is to get Shaw into the open and to get the police to kill him. Only then can he repay the tax then walk off with the rest of Shaw's money

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[–] padzok 12 years ago

He wanted to check she really loved him (the old Alex), and could still love him after two years (the new Frank).

So he did plan that Frank would be the guy she'd hook up with.

We have to assume that (a) he had a good understanding of human psychology, and (b) he knew Elise pretty well.

I dont think that it's too much of a stretch that he could be sure that she would pick him when she saw him.

The gamble that he took was that he had no way of being sure that she would not pick someone else BEFORE she met him. Maybe he was just happy to take that risk, or maybe he put some very subtle subliminal message in the letter.

At the end of the day, Alexander does take big risks. He stole £2.4bn from a vicious murderer, and he sought out his old flame knowing that she was under surveillance. (I dont think he knew she was an undercover, but I think he would have still chanced it anyway.) So, to Alex, the risk of her picking someone else was a trivial one. What was the worst that could happen? He'd just need to figure out some other scheme for getting back into her life.

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