MovieChat Forums > We Need to Talk About Kevin (2011) Discussion > Why no discipline? Therapy? A straight-j...

Why no discipline? Therapy? A straight-jacket for the little weirdo?


I thought this was an interesting movie. Not one that I would like to watch again or necessarily recommend to anyone, but it gripped my attention.

No doubt that Kevin is a terrible, terrible child. I felt far more sorry for the mom than I ever did for him, even though she probably should have loved and wanted him more when he was a baby. And that doofus of a husband makes you feel even sorrier for her.

The fact though that no discipline is shown was bothersome, though. Maybe the book shows this more, or no? Putting him in the corner, time-outs, or an old fashioned spanking? In the movie though, no. She just lets him mock her, destroy rare, treasured maps, throw food everywhere, belligerently refuse to be potty-trained, etc? Her response to all of this was either to just stare at him blankly or, in the latter case, resort to abuse. And again, husband doofus is no help at all and enables Kevin. Maybe the thing to really take away from this film is never have a child with such a foolish man. 

Which, by the way though, re: abuse, the lack of any reasonable discipline made that moment almost kind of refreshing, which I don't think I want to necessarily have been happy that she threw her child against the wall, and breaks his arm but... he deserved some sort of punishment.  But because she didn't do it in a fair, consistent way, the one way she does is abusive and he has that to hang over her head for the rest of time so that she doesn't do it again. HORRIBLE! He gets all of the power he wanted over her at that point.

Even if they are too progressive then for spankings and such, or like when he is a teenager and is abusing his little sister, how about taking him to a therapist? Maybe have him examined and see if there is something that can actually be done about him. Even if her husband is utterly brainless and wouldn't have thought it preferable, she could have done that on her own volition. By the time he is a teenager though, I'm sure it's too late, so why didn't she do it earlier?

I'm convinced this is what is wrong with most kids today that act out and are rude, chaotic, violent, etc. They haven't been equally disciplined (for what they do wrong) and encouraged (for what they do well) in their formative years properly and become these little monsters.

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I agree. He needed discipline and she needed therapy for her post partum depression. Both of them needed someone other than doofus to be a husband and a father.

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Non-stop screaming as a child, physical unresponsiveness, lack of bonding or warmth are all indicators of personality disorders. Those respond to therapy only in exceptional cases.

Even Kevin's cheerful overt preference for his dad seemed calibrated to provoke a reaction in her - manipulation, another indicator of personality disorder when it shows up so young.

We did see her taking him to doctors - not explicitly therapists, but it's clear there was more than one. So we can't assume she didn't pursue mental health help.

All this to say: therapy doesn't solve all mental disorders; not all mental dysfunctions or disobedience indicate poor parenting. Read Deborah Spungeon's account of her daughter Nancy's short violent life. It's an eye-opener.

You're conflating bad behavior with something very different.

________________

Nothing to see here, move along.

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Believe it or not, there are a lot of folks that don't believe in discipline. Or at least their version of discipline is to try to talk it out with an unruly child. Unfortunately, that doesn't always work with every kid. In the case of therapy, to the mom's credit, she did try to get the child evaluated by his pediatrician. The doctor didn't see anything wrong and didn't provide a referral. Should the mom have tried harder and found her own therapist for the kid or even gotten therapy for herself? Yes. Especially since it appears the family had the financial means to do so. But in real life, mental illness is often overlooked. I've seen it first hand.

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It wsa really frustrating to see nothing ever happen to Kevin. He never once learned that his behavior has consequences because he never once had any. He learned from a very early age that he could do whatever he wanted and say whatever he wanted.

When he was older Eva was clearly a bit scared of him so I could understand a lack of punishment at that time because it's a lot harder to punish a teenager (and what was she going to do anyway? Say no contact with friends and grounded to his room because that's all he appeared to do anyway.)

~The internet? Is that thing still around?~

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I think she didn't want to discipline him in the beginning because she was trying to be accepted by him and not have him hate her furthermore. After the scene where she tossed him for pooping in his pants, she felt guilty and he covered for her by lying about how he broke his arm. This gave him leverage and she felt compelled to not punish him from thereon.
He could've told the truth and she might've been thrown in jail but Kevin was smart to use that tactic to his advantage. That's what I got from that scene.
But if I was the mother I would've gotten him therapy. But maybe he'll expose what she did to him in therapy and she'll be blamed for his behavior.

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Therapy/Smerapy; Kevin was highly intelligent. He could charm or intellectualize his way out of any therapy session. Remember in the movie Silence of Lambs where they kept Dr. Lector in an institution? He was there to keep him away from the public, they admitted that he was far too sophisticated for any talk session. Eva missed valuable opportunities to try and right the ship early. When she and little Kevin discussed the arrival of Celie and getting used to it. She could have corrected him, that she did love him even if she really didn't feel it at the moment. We all to protect our loved ones hearts engage in half truths; you don't look fat,you can do it, you play that violin like YoYo Ma, etc. It is a necessary part of being human. That said, Eva's shortcomings as real and bad as they were did not explain or justifies Kevin's actions. Kevin needed folks who'd dual wits and fight fire with fire. He'd tire of it and move on or out.

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I don't think any amount of discipline would have worked on that psychopath.

A straight jacket would have been best for him, yes, but in today's overly PC world who would do that until of course its too late like what happens in the film.

Poorly Lived and Poorly Died, Poorly Buried and No One Cried

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He DID see a therapist sort of anyway, though it's such a quick reference it would be easy to miss. The line about him being 'stung out of [my] mind on prozac' - Kevin being a minor, a doctor would have sent him to a psychiatrist or the doctor would have written the script only if Kevin was seeing a therapist.

That being said, Kevin probably has some kind of personality disorder, and those are not only difficult to diagnosis, but difficult to treat - and only if the patient WANTS to be treated, which Kevin didn't. Kevin was also, again, a minor. Personality disorders really aren't diagnoses given to those under eighteen. But Eva did take him to doctors, she just wasn't listened to or believed.

That being said, there was a clear lack of discipline in the household in regards to Kevin (nor was anything done about Eva's seeming postpartum depression).

The abusive incident is really telling about Kevin though because he figured out quickly he could use it to manipulate Eva, off the cuff came up with a very quick and convincing lie as to what happened, and even more telling - stopped the behavior that got him hurt. That tells me that by that point, Kevin was 100% capable of using the toilet but not doing so, because he got something out of it (control over his parents and enjoying their discomfort/frustration most likely), and as soon as it there was a real and painful consequence to his actions, he changed them. Which is not to defend Eva at all, she shouldn't have abused her son, but actual discipline would have maybe helped.

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