MovieChat Forums > We Need to Talk About Kevin (2011) Discussion > The Author of the Source Story Hates Chi...

The Author of the Source Story Hates Children (PROOF)


The author of the original story (Lionel Shriver) was a woman in her forty's, who decided when she was eight that she did not want children. (Source: DVD Extras Interview)

For those of you who consider Kevin to be a complete psychopath, remember that he is not a real person, but a fictional character devised by an author who said the following about children:

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"Childless at 48, I'm now old enough for the question of motherhood to have become merely philosophical. Still, I've had all the time in the world to have babies. I am married. I've been in perfect reproductive health. I could have afforded children, financially. I just didn't want them. They are untidy; they would have messed up my flat. In the main, they are ungrateful. They would have siphoned too much time away from the writing of my precious books."

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2005/sep/17/society
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So she calls them untidy and ungrateful, despite not having any! This is the equivalent of a misogynist author writing a female character, or a racist writing a minority character.

I found some of the characters to be unrealistic almost to the point of being a Lifetime Movie. For those of you looking for other movies on similar subject matter, I would suggest "400 Blows", "Precious", "Ordinary People" (troubled childhood) or "Elephant" (school massacre).

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Do you have children? She isn't wrong. Quite a bit of them are untidy and ungrateful, no matter the upbringing. I have friends whose kids are just like that, despite being brought up with love and good parenting. I have a 16 yr old son, and that is exactly what he is, untidy (leaves food wrappers all over the place, water/drink bottles all over the place, his toilet is disgusting, I have to get on him about everything everyday). I raised him with love and he is not spoiled, I do not buy him everything he wants. He has restricted gaming time and he has chores to do to earn them, but he is still an untidy and ungrateful little shyt sometimes. I have taught him manners, he knows them, and still sometimes people come to me (teachers) and tell me he's given them attitude or hasn't said thank you for something important. Hell, we went to visit my family and my Nanna was in the hospital (beginnings of Alzheimer's) and when we got to her room she reached out for a hug and he just stood there. He's like I don't really know her. IDGAF, she's your great grandmother and slowly dying, and I was soooo embarrassed! So, yeah, they sure are many of the things that she said they were. And given her reasoning, while materialistic, doesn't mean anything except that she knew why and she was right not to have them. She didn't buy into the hype that women need to have children to be complete. Teenagers ESPECIALLY are ungrateful little turds. And yes, I am lumping them all together, because I have friends around the world and I hear the same gripes about their kids. Doesn't mean we don't love them or don't want them, but my point is, she isn't wrong.


http://www.facebook.com/ainoakeolakauilani

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Well, I think the OP analogy was pretty correct and misogynists are likely no less wrong about women than she is about children. WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT KEVIN is one of my new favorite movies, but there is no doubt that the source novel was written from a place of misanthropy.

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I always wanted a family. I raised (my husband and I raised) two children. Until they reached early teen years, they were, yes, messy, ungrateful, at times disagreeable, and the center of my universe. When they hit those awful teen years, they made me understand why some animals eat their young. Even tho they were raised right, they were disrespectful, rude, and obnoxious. They were my children, tho, and I loved them with every breath in my body. My mother, the wisest woman I know, told me more than once that if we could just hang in there till they were 24, we would see actual human beings... the ones we pictured them as when we were teaching them as children...emerge. She was right, and we now have two great adult children, a wonderful son-in-Law, and four perfect grandchildren. But we wanted those two children desperately, and felt it was worth the work. And for us, it was. We have a wonderful family. But I know that had we not wanted them, and not wanted the whole messy, sometimes heartbreaking, always thankless job of raising them, we would not have made it thru those teenage years and come out of them as well as we did.
People who do not want children should NOT have them, and there is nothing wrong with that. As a mother and a woman, I can't say that I understand that feeling, but I do think a happy childless couple is waaay better than a miserable family. I also don't think that one has to HAVE a child in order to write a story about a child. The author seems to be an intelligent woman, the movie is disturbing but accurate in its portrayal of a psychopathic child/teen, and has really stuck with me long after the first time I watched it.

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Excellent response! :)

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Indeed, what a beautiful response! Me and my girlfriend are now trying to imagine a future with children, and you did a perfect of job of "filling in the blanks". Thank you for that :-)

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Hilarious to me parents are posting about children being ungrateful, messy, and all these other stupid things. Children owe you NOTHING. A child does not ask to be born, but adults ask for children. As parents you should be smart enough to know your kids are going to be messy and not understand the value of currency, but I hate the word ungrateful used for children. Parents make plenty of money off of the kids they have through tax breaks, tax credits, etc. I would say %90 of the parents I know are not nearly the parents they think they are. As a child all I was was a way for my parents to argue over how they split wealth, or manipulate each other and people around them. They have admitted this to all my brothers and sisters. I love them none the less, but I don't feel I owe them anything or ANY kid I have or know owes an adult anything. You had a kid for your own personal reasons. Stop acting like they owe you the world because they gave you a lifetime of fulfillment watching them grow and learn. Grow the hell up and stop acting like someone YOU chose to have who is totally dependent on you for EVERYTHING and you knew that before they were born owes you something. I'd say its a fair trade watching them grow and giving you a lifetime of memories. Sidenote if the author doesnt want to have a kid its her choice. Once again far too many *beep* unloving parents as is. *Mic drop

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You think that parents MAKE money off of their kids? Are you 12 or just stupid? I have 2 kids and even when working full time and my wife and I both in college and tax exempt, the biggest tax return I got was $6,000 for a whole family. Keep in mind that I paid that out of my paychecks every week by claiming zero through the year and then claiming 4 dependents on my tax return. Even if that $6k was all just free money at the end of the year it would still not even make a dent in what it costs to raise two children.
If as a child all you were to your parents was a way for your parents "to argue over how to split the wealth" whatever the hell that means, maybe that's because you're a useless excuse for a person and always have been.
And not all parents "want" children when they have them. I didn't ask to have a child on the way before my 21st birthday. I was already married and my wife was on birth control. No birth control is 100% effective. Yes we chose to keep our child but that does not mean that we were planning on having her.
Saying that children are ungrateful is not claiming that they owe you something. It's making an accurate observation. Have you ever actually talked to a teenager lately? Kids crying about not having the newest iPhone and bitching that their parents aren't good enough. That is the definition of ungrateful. Yes they do owe a parent something. They owe them their life. Simple as that. A parent does not owe their child any more than the safest and healthiest environment they can provide. They do not owe their kids the latest and greatest of everything. No child should ever be that spoiled. It just breeds ignorant, entitled twits like you.

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Parents make plenty of money off of the kids they have through tax breaks, tax credits, etc.


You are clueless

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Every word of it. The OP needs to get off (probably her) high horse & her soapbox.

I'll pile on for Arien


The VAST majority of kids under 18 yrs old that I know are UNTIDY and UNGRATEFUL, and they absolutely suck up more time than is imaginable.

Yes, the author sounds like a self-absorbed queen, but, hey, it is HER life. Also, I didn't/won't read this book but I have heard it is much more coherent than the movie is. If you don't like the movie, don't blame the book, blame the incompetents who wrote this horrific screenplay & I suppose the director too.



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Well then, Eva seems to be directly based upon the author herself.

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If so then it is a great argument for people who do not want children not to have them.
At times society, peers, family or habit will make people who do not wish to have kids have them anyways.
Not having them is better than making them Kevin...

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[deleted]

Notice how nobody ever uses the example of a misandrist!

GASP!!!!!!! He said "misandrist"! You have to be a misogynist to even think the word "misandrist".

GASP!!!!!!! He did it again!

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Well... The bad thing would be to think that way and still have a baby, something many people do and many other realize about after the fact.

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Her lack of cognitive dissonance surrounding children and parenthood probably enables her to describe and depict troubled adolescence far more accurately than someone whose perception is contaminated by the self-delusions necessary to continue plugging away after biology or fate consigned him/her to function primarily as a host to a parasite for 20 yrs or more. For the right people, that's a symbiotic relationship. She isn't one of them. Why would you have someone act against their own nature and best interest?

Why does no one seem to respond this way to childless MEN?

P.S. http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2012/05/23/new_study_showing_children_make_you_happier_is_less_persuasive_upon_closer_examination_.html "Children Make You Happier, If Someone Else Does Most of the Work"

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She seemed to write that sweet little girl pretty well.

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Um. So what if she didn't want or like kids? What does this have to do with the film itself?

It's actually not in any way like a racist writing a minority since we were all kids at one point. I don't even know why this is pertinent to you as a way to understand the film or the book.

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"It's better not to know so much about what things mean." David Lynch

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Hates or doesn't want? So what?
How is this relevant to fictional story (which, btw might have easily been inspired by all those high school shooters, as I see it, and is not her anti kids manifesto).

For those of you who consider Kevin to be a complete psychopath, remember that he is not a real person, but a fictional character devised by an author who said the following about children

Because, of course, real life psychopathic spree shooters have never existed?
There are Kevins around us.
I don't know what her "agenda" was but as I see it she needed a pair of eyes, brain cells, a good psychological insight and very little imagination to convey such a story. Because similar things have happened in real world.

Book is excellent, by the way.




Aint nothing like a black napkin
to show up a little ol white maggot

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