MovieChat Forums > Taras Bulba (2009) Discussion > Russian patriotism or Russian propaganda

Russian patriotism or Russian propaganda

posted 14 years ago by monsieurzy
8 replies | jump to latest

I Iiked the historical context of this film.The costumes, set up of the cossack sich (fort) and battles with the poles were, although historical fiction, very close to what happened with the Zaporozhian cossacks under Bohdan Khmelnitsky in the uprisings around 1648. The huge problem was tht the cossacks in this film were saying things such as " for the Russian motherland", "I die with my brothers on Russian soil". First, the Zaporozhian cossacks were not Russian they were ethnically Ukrainian. Furthermore, Russians were not called "Russians" in that era- they were called Muscovites. The Zaporozhian cossacks could not understand Russian and they used interpreters when speaking with each other. Finally, the killer is this, if the Zaporozhian cossacks were such patriotic Russians why did Catherine the Great destroy the Cossack sich about 50 years later? Because they were good and loyal Russians! No because they were fighting for a Cossack homeland that had a separate ethnicity. So although a good historical fiction, the Russian Orwellian propaganda machine is trying to change history to suit their need. Their present need is to bring Ukraine back under control- unfortunately the present Russian psyche cannot view a Russian without Ukraine However, Ukrainians have no problem viewing a Ukraine without Russia.

[–] MJohnathen 13 years ago

overall it was a historical piece and not patriotic or propaganda, like any movie that isn't set in modern history.

[–] chris12345678 12 years ago

::Finally, the killer is this, if the Zaporozhian cossacks were such patriotic Russians why did Catherine the Great destroy the Cossack sich about 50 years later?

You're right, this is almost too funny. They starved 12 million Ukrainians to death in 1933, and now they're playing best friends. Russians are trying to get Ukraine back. The Ukrainians waited for a country of their own for a few hundred years, but Russians think they own it.
I'm gonna recommend this piece of hateful propaganda to every Pole I know. But even without that I'm sure they know who their worst enemies are. Just watch Katyn. It gives another perspective on this movie.

[–] MJohnathen 11 years ago

Chris commonly comments on all Russian movies calming the evils of Russia pay no attention.

He says Ukrainians, but if he had investigated instead of reading the first wiki page he found he would know that those 12 million Ukrainians, weren't just Ukrainians, they were Russians as well, infact all soviet republics suffered, they weren't just Ukrainians, but his russophobia doesn't allow him to see past his propaganda goggles.

What he also fails to realize is that Russia and Ukraine are the same Nation, the Russian nation, merely two different countries due to the soviet's decision to turn it into a republic, Ukraine meaning the edge of Russia, referring to it's position within the Russian nation, Ukrainians never "waited" for their own country for hundreds of years because they were the same nation for hundreds of years with the capital of the Rus being Kiev.

Hes going to recommend this video to every pole he knows because hes still trying to think of a way to claim that Brest a region of now Belarussia also a Rus-nation, is some how Polish despite the fact that since the founding of Poland some 1000 years ago, it had always been a part of the Russias, aka "Of all Rus"

The great Rus leader Bohdan Khmelnytsky who championed himself as "Leader Of all Rus", who was born in modern day Ukraine is a famous hero of the Slavic Rus peoples, he was known for driving the polish out out of Ukraine and Belarus.

[–] slay-er 10 years ago

They starved 12 million Ukrainians to death in 1933, and now they're playing best friends.

No need for cheap propaganda. Ukraine's population grew 0.5 millions that year so even theoretically it is impossible for 12 millions to just disappear. There was famine of course but nowhere near that many dying and just in Ukraine. And it was all over USSR not just Ukrainian SSR (by the way, Ukrainian nationalists usually present photos made in Russia as a proof of Ukrainian so called holodomor).
You probably one of those ignorants who also believes in Gulag killing 30-50 millions. Please don't bring up Solzhenitsyn as any kind of source of information, since he never went through any documents/papers and didn't do any kind of investigation/research, he simply made his numbers up.
Population of USSR:
1926 - 147 millions
1937 - 162 millions
1939 - 168 millions
Population was growing at faster rate than in England and France. These numbers do not correlate with killing of tens of millions. When so many are dead it is reflected in the stats:
1941 - 196 mil (some new territories were joined)
1946 - 170 mil (aftermath of WW2)
1951 - 182 mil
1959 - 209 mil

Maximum 1 600 000 died in 26 years of Gulag. ~2 500 000 was the maximum number of people working in Gulag in one year. That's about what US has in its prisons. On average Gulag had over 1.5 million people a year.

[–] mtlukie 8 years ago

No need for cheap commie propaganda.the commies starved 10 million Ukrainians during the Holodomor.that is a basic fact that only commie lovers deny.
Your "population of USSR"is nothing more than Stalinist lies and propaganda.

Read The Harvest Of Sorrow by Robert Conquest, and stop your commie b.s.on this post.

[–] DurakSuka 9 years ago

You sound like a dickless Polack *beep* or one who likes to lick Polack *beep* Illiterate retarded people like you need to be exterminated like the subhumans that you are.

Hama cheez ba-Beer behtar meshawad!

[–] slay-er 10 years ago

unfortunately the present Russian psyche cannot view a Russian without Ukraine

Well, kinda hard when many people have relatives at both sides of the border. Over 70% of people in Ukraine speak Russian at home. There are nearly 30 millions of Russians in Ukraine. "Ukraine" in this movie is actually very tiny in comparison to what Soviets made Ukraine. Soviets gifted Ukraine a lot of Russian lands with millions of Russians on them. So there always gonna be that Russian-Ukrainian connection. Banderovtsy/Nationalists are trying to break it though but that way they might break the country. Poles should know what Banderovtsy are like.

However, Ukrainians have no problem viewing a Ukraine without Russia.

Depends which "Ukrainians". Recent events show that not all of them. 7 millions region voted to split ways with Ukraine (did you see those crazy lines to poll stations?) and Ukraine moved tanks in their direction and has been launching ballistic missles.

People have the right at self determination, right? Hey it is said in UN charter. Scotland and Catalonia will have referendums at the end of the year. Crimea already had referendum in 1991 to split ways with Ukrainian Soviet Socialistic Republic (93% of people voted to leave Ukrainian SSR, those numbers correlate pretty well with the recent referendum numbers), but after USSR break up Ukraine grabbed already independent Crimea AND Sevastopol city to boot which never had anything to do with Ukraine. That's why many people in Crimea considered Ukraine as an occupant. So why Scotland or Catalonia or Quebec can have their referendums but not Crimea or South-East? Or Russians have no right at self-determination? Russia let Ukraine go peacefully 23 years ago, sadly Ukraine can't do the same toward Russians, Ukraine refuses their right at self-determination and basically demonstrates their mini-imperialistic ambitions. Ukraine is not modern democratic state that it tries to portrait itself, in a fact it is gradually becomes the most totalitarian state in Europe. They want territories not people. There is an Ukrainian saying: "Crimea will be either Ukrainian or uninhabited". I guess same applies to Donbass.

[–] DurakSuka 9 years ago

You are an utter and complete retard.

The Cossacks were and are Russian. It's not an ethnicity, it's a way of life. Read up on some actual history before opening your whore mouth with lies, deceit, and brazen stupidity. The Zaporozhian Cossacks spoke Russian (and some of them spoke Russian along with Ukrainian dialects). They did not identify themselves as Ukrainian.

As per your magnificently moronic logic, the Chinese civil wars should not have taken place because they were the same ethnic group. You clearly have no idea of realpolitik.

And *beep* please. You have zero idea of what Ukrainian history is. The word Rus' is not used for Russians alone. It's used for the three descendants of the Eastern Slavs, the descendants of Kievan Rus' - Russian, Belarusians, and Ukrainians. Who the *beep* are you to talk about the history, wants, and desires of those peoples?

You are nothing but the scum that slithered from your mother's dirty womb, and whom none has cared to love ever since. Don't take your frustrations out on sane people, and for *beep*'s sake, don't spread misinformation online because of your extreme illiteracy. There is enough stupidity in the world as is.

Hama cheez ba-Beer behtar meshawad!