Not a subtle, under-the-surface type of psychopath either, but clearly the measurably dangerous kind. I cannot understand why these two women loved him. It goes so much more than just some bad-boy attraction. The guy is a nut job. So, why?
- You're wrong. Sorry to ruin the ending for you.
I think because Cathy grew up with him, she can't percieve his insanity clearly. She is herself pretty unhealthy - mentally. Isabella is young and naive. She (at first) sees H-cliff very sympathetically as the wronged and abused lover and Cathy as a faithless, fickle, spoilt, bitch (which she is).You can see why - that's how it appears on the surface. Isabella has a crush on the older guy and wants to "help" him. Cathy, like H-cliff, is obsessive and a dog-in-the-manger.
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Cathy saw the good in him and the bad and loved him anyway bc he was her soulmate and she considered herself part of him. It didnt matter what he did she could not stop loving him alive or dead. Isabella had a crush don't think she loved him really.
~Rachel~
I think sociopath is a more accurate term to describe Heathcliff. And Cathy's assertion that "I am Heathcliff" is very telling, as she is a deeply demented person as well.
It's what makes the love story so moving, IMO; these two lunatics are the only ones who can understand each other. They grew up in the same abusive environment; it's only when Cathy tries to break out of this environment, unsuccessfully, that things go awry for them.
It's the most tragic love story of all time. I love it!!!
Happiness is not a potato... -Charlotte Bronte
I agree they were the only ones to understand each other..Nobody gave heathcliff a chance except Mr Earnshaw but then he died and things got worse..
Very tragic..
~Rachel~
Thank you!!! People don't seem to get that Cathy is as mentally unhinged as Heathcliff is. They're the only ones who understand or can handle the other.
Also i agree Sociopath is better word for Heathcliff than psychopath and that the deeply abusive enviroment that H and C grew up in undoubtedly caused a great deal of their mental problems. However, on the flip side it probably contributed the intensity of their connection too.
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I don't think the terms "psychopath" or "sociopath" are apt to describe Heathcliff at all. Both terms refer to those of a condition where emotions are far more absent - often empathy and feelings for others aren't felt by sociopaths/psychopaths. There's a disconnect between them and others; that's why so often they do awful things to others, as they have no empathy and feel no guilt.
Cathy and Heathcliff were both intensely selfish people, but I don't think either could be diagnosed as a sociopath. Heathcliff does exact a lot of nasty revenge on others, even others who don't deserve it (Isabella, Linton, Catherine Linton to name a few), but it is emotionally fueled revenge. Heathcliff was horribly mistreated and humiliated by Hindley, and then heartbroken by Cathy, and it's those injuries to him and his pride that leads him to his nasty behaviour. He's a very emotional and passionate character, and extremely embittered, but I would not describe him as sociopathic. I'd say in the second part of his life (after Cathy's death) he became unhinged and fell under psychosis (Cathy's corpse appearing fresh), but being psychotic is very different to being a psychopath/sociopath.
Cathy is more likely to be a sociopath (especially in the novel; the selfishness of Catherine Earnshaw in the original text is quite repulsive) but I still don't see it completely. She is devoted to Heathcliff, and though she hurt him marrying Edgar, it was an act of self-survival and I do believed she hoped to use her wealth to help Heathcliff. She is a selfish creature, but she cares about and loves Heathcliff, that is evident, and at least in this adaption she cares about Edgar and feels guilt for wronging him.
They're both very selfish (and interesting!) characters, but in my opinion with the terms psychopath/sociopath you're barking up the wrong tree.
It's never over, all my blood for the sweetness of his laughter
IDK, I don't think I would agree with that assessment. To be a sociopath must've meant Heathcliff was born without empathy for anyone, he was incapable of love from the very start. It's another word for evil isn't it? Inhuman incapable of human feelings? I think he is more of a psychopath, something has broken him & made him the demented character he became. I don't believe he was that in the very beginning. I think that what we are watching is a man that has destroyed himself & everyone around him. He has devolved as a character.
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The characters are far more complex than this. It isn't a matter of mental instability, and most of the other characters (Nelly, Hindley, Edgar etc) are far from blameless, let alone paragons of sanity. H & C are more archetypal, and are meant to represent passion in and of itself. Heathcliff can be seen as Cathy's animus, her shadow, and darker side of herself. He is seen as evil the moment he appears in the novel, as a kind of demonic being who should be repressed. Perhaps he is meant to represent the dark, wild, uninhibited side of ourselves that we try to hide, and certainly something that 19th century British society who go to great length's to eradicate. At first Cathy understands and embraces her shadow, but as she grows up and sees that Heathcliff is not excepted by society she tries to tear herself away from him, and be like everyone else. This is Cathy's downfall, as she betrays her own heart, her very soul, and this is what ultimately leads to her death. Instead of seeing Heathcliff as a bad boy, or an abusive boyfriend, try seeing him as a force of nature, that is perhaps to be feared, but also respected, and acknowledged as being a part of all of us.
***
[R][E][P][O]: My Anti-Twilight.
TESTIFY!
Nice interpretation, isildae21, very nice! A+ for you!
shareI like that interpretation isildae21, it's very interesting. Especially with the context of 19th Century England that you mentioned; I always loved the Bronte's because they delved into the darker areas of the human psyche that other authors of the time (like Austen) only glimpsed at. Heathcliff as a representation of that darkness is an interesting concept.
It's never over, all my blood for the sweetness of his laughter
I personally thought Heathcliff wasn't always wrong in what he did. He was abused, wronged, hit, beaten, yelled at and criticized every day for his origins and for who he was, things about himself he could not change. It really ruined his outlook of the world and the only positive thing was Cathy. Once Cathy left his view, everything was bleak and he descended slower into depression. It's sad to see it happen.
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While you do have some very good points there, & nobody would dispute that Heathcliff's behaviour stems from how he was treated by most people growing up, it should be pointed out that Heathcliff was even cruel to people who did try to show him kindness. Eg: Isabella Linton. She tried to love Heathcliff, & unlike even Cathy herself, was willing to marry him, but, he only took advantage of her to get back at her brother for marrying Cathy.
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Heathcliff versus Edgar is not example of simple duality of character in Cathy. With H, Cathy can be in whatever mood she IS in and never have to pretend. And how freeing is that in either her day and age or in ours?
With Edgar, although he is polite and has many gentlemanly accomplishments, Cathy knows he's only a pale shadow compared to H.
Put another way, Heathcliff is sustenance, Edgar is dessert.
It was not Edgar who Cathy referred to as "the eternal rocks," but Heathcliff.
H does become a complete bastard. He married Isabella (a twit) to annoy Edgar and hurt Cathy. But, he hurt himself more... Now, he's saddled with Isabella (please read the book, she whines!) and can't even visit Cathy anymore.
Truly, Joseph and the maid (what was her name??) never do right by Heathcliff and treat him abominably throughout, just waiting for Earnshaw Jr (another whiny twit) to throw him out. But Earnshaw Jr is lazy and has no time to keep WH in the repair it should be; he only wants to be "master."
Fair enough that he loses WH to Heathcliff for wishing him ill since childhood.
There are at least 10 themes in the book and this movie version represents them the best.
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I agree with you. But their attraction to him is much more because he is a bad-boy. I think a character like Heathcliff is not easy to pull off. He is a despicable disgusting character only veiled by his dark good looks no matter how dirty & his inherent charm. Those are the 2 things that makes Heathcliff attractive to women despite being a psychopath. If he had none of his charms & looks, I doubt many women would fail to see him for what he is. Catherine loved him because they are of the same mold, they grew up together & shared the same passions. But the sister or even Catherine II, to have disobeyed their brother/father, despite his warnings could only be because Heathcliff is a master at deception. You do not see his vileness at 1st or 2nd glances, he mut've been armed by something attractive for these women to have overlooked his real nature & the warnings of others.
This is by far the best adaption I have seen.
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I don't think its only his looks, Cathy II and Isabella were very naive and stubborn (specially Cathy II).
I don't think Heathcliff was a psycho either, he was just molded that way. He was mistreated all his life and became really bitter.
Don't dream it: be it!
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I don't think Heathcliff was a psycho either, he was just molded that way.
Why? I know ppl (specially older ppl) that turn really mean and bitter because of things that happened in their life and that doesn't mean they're psychos. Just because you do evil things to other ppl you despise it doesn't mean you are a psycho.
Don't dream it: be it!
It takes more than bitterness & meanness to be labeled a psychopath. From my understanding, a sociopath is biologically one, these are the people born with it. Back in the day, they would be called 'inherently evil', Damien types, born evil. Psychopaths are people who become like sociopaths in that they are without any empathy whatsoever. Both enjoy seeing others suffer. Heathcliff IMO, from the book, is a psychopath. The lack of empathy for others is the sign of a deranged mind.
OPEN YOUR EYES! dailymotion.com/video/xbi2hi_1993-chandler-molestation-extortion_news
Vicky, I believe you have them reversed. True psychopaths are born, sociopaths are developed.
What is the definition of a sociopath?
In modern psychiatry, a sociopath is defined as someone suffering from antisocial personality disorder and who displays a lack of empathy, conscience, and very little regard for authority of the law.
What is the definition of a psychopath?
A psychopath is defined as someone suffering from a mental disorder characterized by antisocial and amoral behavior tendencies, an inability to love or establish meaningful relationships, extreme egocentricity, and a failure to learn from experience.
I do see Heathcliff as a sociopath. I think had Mr. Earnshaw lived to Heathcliff's adulthood and was able to protect and guide him, his life may have turned out differently. As others mentioned, the abuse of Hindley and the loss of Cathy, his only friend and support, caused him to truly crack and become twisted.
To each their own...opinion
He was good when treated well, and bitter when treated poorly.
What normal person wouldn't react similarly? Yes, he took drastic measures and went at lengths to exact his revenge, but perfectly sane people do things like this when pushed far enough.
If it were a woman doing this, we'd say "You go girl"