MovieChat Forums > Un prophète (2010) Discussion > Sympathy for César Luciani (Spoliers)

Sympathy for César Luciani (Spoliers)


Even though he was a total prick I couldn't help but feel sorry for Luciani when he gets knock down in the yard. Anyone else have similar experience. Why would I be sympathetic?

When there are two, one betrays-Jean-Pierre Melville

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Not necessarily sorry for him, but pathos for the generation of old school criminals who are now seemingly redundant. Cesar's story is that of a Greek tragedy; a man of considerable power who fails to adapt to contemporary crime. Cesar was a callous man who warrants no pity, but it's simply astonishing to watch his tenuous grip of power lessen as the film progresses.

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I don't know if he failed to adapt to the times so much as he got caught up in his own hubris (which of course is still classic Greek tragedy). As the film progresses Cesar's influence gets weaker and weaker as the Corsicans leave and the Arabs rise, yet he still behaves in the same manor, manipulating the Arabs and bullying the warden. His final error was to assume that Malik's loyalty was absolute in spite of the treatment Malik had received from him (not to mention Cesar knew that Malik was trying to gain power for himself). Yet he believed that his servant would be forever content to be a lacky for the Corsican mafia, both in jail and out (the casino position he offers Malik). Despite his intelligence and ruthlessness he was blinded by his hubris.
And yes, despite being a terrible man I did feel a shred of empathy for Cesar as he shuffled back to his bench after being punched in the gut by a guy who a month ago would have been petrified to cross him.

Also: badass Melville quote. It figures that one of his fans would dig A Prophet (besides me of course).

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When that happened I actually thought that I couldn't remember seeing a film where I found it so satisfying to see someone get their comeuppance.

I have a hatred for the old generation of gangsters because I feel they have a glamorous image and status that they don't deserve.

I felt it was so much better having Muslim criminals taking over because at least you don't have to put up with all the working-class sentimentality towards Muslim criminals.

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Noirkiss 3 -

Of course you feel sorry for Luciani; his "son" has just betrayed him. Cesar, aside from being the best actor in the movie (and engaging our sympathies, no matter how morally bad), and who though totally ruthless (in a ruthless environment), provides protection, structure, purpose, family, work--in sum, a life for Malik. He is his prison father (if not his only father, being an orphan). Cesar may say he doesn't care for Malik's feelings, but then why does he ask about them, if not unconsciously caring about him? Plus Cesar has always shown in the way he has spoken to him that he cares. Frankly, though, it was a director's set-up to have him walk towards the Arabic prisoners. A smart, wily guy like Cesar would not have done this because 1), he was unprotected, 2), this was an invasion of the other group's territory, and 3), Cesar was the father and wouldn't have deigned to step down to the son's/underling's level. That's what made the whole scene a little surprising; it should have been handled in a different way that didn't debase Cesar's street smarts. But then again, perhaps this is Cesar's "slip"--letting his feelings show for this "son." O.K., I could accept this staging a little, as it lets Cesar humanity show and therefore makes him vulnerable to the ruthlessness he has "bred" in his own offspring. There's your Greek tragedy, like the others have mentioned here--violence coming back to haunt the violent within the family over power.

NLO

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The reason Cesar asks Malik about him why he obeys him is that he is worried that he may be betraying him. He has no feelings whatsoever for Malik. Cesar is a pure psychopath. He only sees Malik as a sort of object he can manipulate for his own purposes.

Cesar isn't particularly smart. His own demise is foreshadowed when he asks Malik to go over and suss out the Arabs. He doesn't understand what will happen to Malik if he does.

He has always succeeded by being violent. Now he is furious that his inferior has usurped him. He instinctively reacts the way he always has, assuming that Malik will roll over and give into him the way he always has done. He lacks the judgement to see how stupid his actions will be in this situation and to take control of his emotions.

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Valjean24601 -

You have some strength in your arguments. However, a couple of points:

- Cesar has spoken with Malik about having him enter even further into his organization by "announcing" that Malik will run one of Cear's casinos when he gets out. Sounds like the "son" is inheriting some of the business.

- As brutality is one of the currencies of the prison/criminal life, Cesar's violence towards Malik is not out of place. Violence is applied not as a matter of course, but as a means to force an issue that would otherwise not happen.

- Cesar questions Malik's continued subservience because he sees Malik as having proven his worthiness to join Cesar's gang/family. The barrier of Cesar's (and his gang's) habitaul prejudice towards Arabs has softened.

- I can't agree that Cesar "isn't particularly smart." He operates almost as freely in prison as he would without. In fact, aside from his slip-up in misjudging is relations with Malik, he seems the smartest guy on the block. Cesar's association with Malik, the Arab, has trumped his blood, familiarity and cultural ties to the Corsicans.

- I would say that it's the demographics that are eroding Cesar's power, not his misreading of the dynamics of the social relations between the groups. And I wouldn't put it by him to make more alliances of convenience and merit in the sequel.

- Regarding any so-called "glamour" associated with the older criminals, there doesn't seem to be any in this movie. It's all violence, bribes, smarts and out-smarting as far as I can see.

NLO

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Cesar, aside from being the best actor in the movie (and engaging our sympathies, no matter how morally bad), and who though totally ruthless (in a ruthless environment), provides protection, structure, purpose, family, work--in sum, a life for Malik. He is his prison father
Disagree. Cesar provides protection and a better life in prison. With this Malik begins to flourish and ultimately it is Ryad and then his fellow Arabs who provide him with family and a life. Cesar made Malik a murderer.
rouge silk,
fierce concentrated joy,
fires the blood

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i think anytime you see an old man get hit by a stronger, younger guy, there's an instinctive reaction to it. similar to seeing a man hit a woman or whatever. society teaches you that it's wrong on a basic level. if you can justify it in your head that the guy deserved it (and he definitely did), then you can get over it, but i think the first reaction is always "man that's messed up. you can't treat elderly people like that."

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F_u_c_k Cesar, he almost blinded Malik. I also felt that he got what he deserved and did not feel sorry for him.

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In the penultimate scene, its very subtle, but notice how, when he approaches
his customary bench: its occupied, by two people who don't even look up when
he approaches it. This is possibly overlooked when you see it the first time,
but this shows (before he's physically knocked down), that he's lost any power
he had inside the prison. That bench would have been known to be "his" and no
one would have dared to sit at it, had he still retained his power.

Another nice touch by the director.

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i agree. no one would argue that he didn't deserve it, but i felt sorry for him. a few things: look again at what he's wearing. it's his same coat that he's had on the whole film, but this time he has no shirt on beneath it. he looks weak and exposed.
also the way the scene is set up. luciani is in the middle of the shot the whole time, filmed from a distance. he looks small and weak against the tough environment but he is the only thing our eye is drawn to, naturally inviting our sympathy.
and a few posts here have seen luciani as either blinded by hubris or "softening" to malik. i disagree on both counts. to me, fear seems to be his primary motivator. from the scene with his lawyer where he sneers at his delivery of "good" news to his suspicious probing of the loyal coffee-boy where malik shrewdly asks what kind of answer he wants from him. luciani doesn't know, he's just suspicious.
this final decision to cross the yard, which i think is rightly recognized as out of character for a seemingly street smart mob boss, seems to me to be the last act of a desperate man. he invested in malik and now has nothing left. i think we recognize his fear and that again increases our sympathy.

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Malik's face clearly shows guilt or some kind of feelings that he's not totally comfortable with what he's done but by this point he's adept at ignoring his conscience and doing what need to be done!

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I may have misread but I interpreted Cesars bitterness toward Malik differently.

Cesar was an old man coming to the end of his criminal "career", he had the knowledge that he was never getting out of prison and he knew that his prime was over.

Malik on the otherhand was young and Cesar could see that his star was rising. I think deep down Cesar knew that one day Malik would succeed him hence his constant reiteration that Malik needed him and that if it were't for his protective wing he'd be nothing . The same with the violence toward Malik, it was a constant reminder of who was boss (hallmarks of an abusive relationship) which ulitmately is concluded with a punch in the stomach that isn't even perpetatrated by Malik but at his behest.

The boy had come a long way.

Why quote other people when I like the sound of my own voice?

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I did initially feel sorry for him, seeing him fall down and then stumble back to his bench alone, but then I remembered the years of cruelty and abuse he subjected Malik to. Cesar may have given Malik respect and a position of power but in private it was a different story, I'm not just referring to the violent outbursts but to the constant insults, accusations and threats. After all that I feel a punch in the gut amounts to nothing more than a slap on the wrist. As for betraying Cesar, I think that was reasonable considering he never had any choice in working for the Corsicans in the first place, it was a matter of life or death, and that first murder he committed haunted him forever more. Furthermore, we shouldn't forget that Cesar betrayed many of those close to him towards the end.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix

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