MovieChat Forums > When We Left Earth: The NASA Missions (2008) Discussion > Omission of Apollo 15?

Omission of Apollo 15?

posted 16 years ago by rhampson-1
14 replies | jump to latest

I take it the producers of this documentary still haven't forgiven Dave Scott?

First, the program states that Apollo 14 landed "in the highlands" - true - where they anticipated finding evidence of the moon's origin - false - Fra Mauro was interesting, but Hadley Rille (Apollo 15) was where they thought they'd find original crust.

Second, the program *implies* that Apollo 16 was the first to use the rover - false - Apollo 15 was.

Third, the Apollo 16 segment shows the rover camera capturing a beautiful launch of the LM ascent stage - false - that footage was from Apollo 17, both previous launches failed to capture the full launch.

Al Worden provided a voice-over for the Apollo 14 segment. Dave Scott was notably absent.

It's nice to see the actual astronauts and footage. Also a pleasant surprise to see Armstrong, but the absence of Apollo 15 is disturbing.

Finally, the choice of music is shameful. It is vaguely reminiscent of Mason Daring's beautiful composition for "From the Earth to the Moon" crossed with Pirates of the Caribbean.

Again, shameful - stand on your own as historical documentary, don't manipulate it, and don't try to ride on the coat-tails of previous (successful) productions.

[–] jgroub 16 years ago

I noticed the omission of Apollo 15 also, and especially the implication that Apollo 16 was the first to use the rover. But what do the producers have against Dave Scott? Does he owe them money/did he kill their dog/sleep with their wives? What is it, man? You obviously know something that I don't. Spill it, dude.

I asked the doctor to take your picture so I can look at you from inside as well.

[–] rp69 16 years ago

Yeah, what's up with Dave Scott?

[–] ajgenard 16 years ago

I thought it was strange too. He is usally involved in these programs and A-15 is usually covered more in depth. I am really curious to know why he was glanced over.

[–] dtravel 16 years ago

This may help explain. (Copied from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_15_postage_stamp_scandal )

"The Apollo 15 postage stamp scandal occurred within the United States astronaut corps in 1971. The crew of Apollo 15 took 398 commemorative postage stamp covers with them on their trip to the Moon, with the understanding that when they returned, 100 of the covers were to be sold to the German stamp dealer who provided them. Those 100 covers are known today by philatelists as the "Sieger covers," named such after the dealer, Hermann Sieger. The remaining 298 covers were to be kept by the crew members as souvenirs but were later confiscated by NASA when the public sale of Sieger's covers was discovered soon after the mission. The crew's 298 covers were not returned until 1983, after the astronauts filed suit against the government for their return, citing NASA's partnership with the U.S. Postal Service to sell covers flown on the space shuttle.

Although taking souvenirs into space was not illegal nor prohibited by NASA at the time (in fact, the Apollo 15 crew had 243 authorized covers on-board in addition to the 398 unauthorized covers), the discovery of the Sieger covers' sale caused Congress to take notice and led to NASA taking disciplinary action against several Apollo astronauts, including Apollo 15 commander David Scott, who admitted to carrying the stamps, and Jack Swigert, who was not involved in the scandal directly but was less than forthcoming when asked to provide information to investigators about the practice of carrying souvenirs aboard spacecraft. Scott and fellow Apollo 15 astronaut Alfred Worden were reassigned to non-flight roles within NASA, and James Irwin resigned to pursue a Christian ministry. Congressional questioning of NASA officials over the affair was a further source of embarrassment for the agency."

[–] rhampson-1 16 years ago

Thanks for posting this, I've been mostly offline while traveling.

Yeah, there are individuals within the NASA community that have not forgiven Scott for his role because he basically pointed out that there were similar deals going on that just didn't get caught.

Ron Howard/Tom Hanks had NASA support, but FTETTM was not official NASA production, thus Dave Scott was an advisor. This series though was official NASA through and through, hence my thoughts that A15 was missing due to the "stamp act."

Revisionist history, RetConning - whatever. Sort of like the whole bunch of Discov. Ch.-type shows on the Titanic that never mentioned Robert Ballard - for a while there it looked like he was being written out of history because he opposed recovering (and selling) souvenirs.

[–] JimD1701 16 years ago

I agree about the Apollo 15 omission. There was also no mention of Gemini 5, 10, and 11. At least Dave Scott was featured in the Ron Howard-produced documentary In the Shadow of the Moon. On a funny note, did anyone notice Frank Borman's mistaken statement about splashing down in the Atlantic Ocean? My dad and I kind of laughed about that since dad's carrier (U.S.S. Yorktown) was the recovery ship for Apollo 8 in the Pacific Ocean. These guys are still my heroes, though...and yes, it was good to finally see Armstrong appear in a documentary!

Now, more than ever!www.USAWakeUp.org

[–] ajgenard 16 years ago

I don't really see how the stamp scandal would have much of an impact on this. This miniseries wasn't totally produced and spearheaded by NASA, just with their cooperation. The stamp affair is so irrelevant and old news in my mind I didn't even consider it would create a conflict. Maybe he wasn't available for it or possibly didn't want to do it. I don't see his absense as some huge issue that drastically hurts the miniseries. He is afterall on many other docs.

[–] enzo_Q 16 years ago

Yes, U guys overacting this. Dave was with the NASA after the stamp scandal, ancient story. He was probably wasn't available for this or something.

[–] killpotter 16 years ago

Not sure about the stamp fiasco keeping Dave Scott and Apollo 15 out of this documentary. It was history and should have been included, particularly because Hadley Rille was a visually stunning location. Is it possible that NASA would be so petty with such a memorable mission? I would like to think not.

I also noticed the conspicuous absence of the Gemini 10 mission and any mention of Mike Collins' spacewalk on that mission. They mention Ed White, Gene Cernan and Buzz Aldrin's EVA but neglect to mention that Collins' mission set a new altitude record using the engine of the Agena booster and also retrieved an experiment from a different (dead) Agena during his walk.

Perhaps they could use the excuse of editing the series into a set time frame but it seems they deliberately omitted these two missions and inferred by the total absence of the Apollo 15 mission that Apollo 16 was the first to use the lunar rover.

It's all very stange.

Oh, and the music was rubbish!
It did absolutely nothing for the atmosphere of the series. It was an abominable distraction to an otherwise excellent series.

[–] doomguy-2 15 years ago

Well I was just thinking; since for whatever reason Dave Scott wasn't in it, the only person they had to comment on 15 was Al Worden, who didn't walk on the moon. But for 16 they had both Moon Walkers - John Young & Charlie Duke - to provide comments on their mission, which would give them so much more to work with.
I can kind of understand that.

[–] budman57 15 years ago

It was probably just an editing decision to not detail the Apollo 15 mission (shameful, because it was a great mission) rather than being sour grapes against Dave Scott. They did, after all, feature him in the Gemini 8 story in the second episode when they could have just as easily cut him out of that one as well.

[–] tgs333 12 years ago

Apollo 15 was the first "science" mission. Al Worden also did a EVA in Deep Space. Kinda weird it was left out. Oh well...

"I'm a vehemently anti-nuclear, paranoid mess, harbouring a strange obsession with radioactive sheep."

[–] cljohnston108 11 years ago

Yes, I was also angered that Apollo 15 was ignored. One of my two favorite episodes of From the Earth to the Moon is "Galileo Was Right".
And, of course, who can forget the coolest physics demonstration ever!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDp1tiUsZw8

Another omission I found odd, considering who the narrator was, is the role Ken Mattingly played in the effort to bring Apollo 13 home. His name isn't even mentioned as having been on the crew.
Gary Sinise simply says: "But the team is broken up just three days before launch. Jack Swigert is a last-minute replacement, when the Command Module pilot is exposed to the measles."

[–] denitaarnold19 11 years ago

D. Arnold I wondered about this, too. With the exception of a brief comment by Al Worden, nothing else about Apollo 15. People will think Apollo 16 first used the LRV. All over some stupid stamps. GEE! Jim Irwin, rest his soul, is one of my heroes; it's too bad he passed away before this series came out. And Dave? Maybe he's too greedy, I dunno. It's not like he cheated on his wife (maybe he did). What I'm saying is that other astros had done far worse. Anyway that's my take on all this.this is my first post here. Hi everyone!