MovieChat Forums > The Damned United (2009) Discussion > Soccer vs Football

Soccer vs Football

posted 13 years ago by indieinvestment
20 replies | jump to latest

I am a member of a small but growing minority in America: a soccer fan. As such I feel that it is difficult to identify with non-soccer people here in America and even "football" fans in other countries. One of the reasons is the terminology. With the popularity of American Football here I understood why Americans use the term Soccer when obviously "football" describes the game much better. Because I am an American "soccer" fan I often feel on the outside-looking-in when talking with European or South American "football" (or futbol) fans. I grew up with the fact that it is soccer here and football everywhere else.
However, I am reading Soccernomics by Kuper and Szymanski and in it they say that soccer was soccer in the UK as well until the mini-boom started in America in the 70's with the NASL and the youth leagues. Is that true? It says Brits started referring to the sport as "football" because they felt that Americans who knew nothing about the game were infringing on their turf and wanted to differentiate between the British game and the American game. I was surprised to hear this. I know this doesn't apply to the movie (which I loved and can't wait to read the book) but I thought this was the best place to get a response: was football more commonly referred to as Soccer in the UK pre-1970's. Thanks.

Rule #76: No excuses. Play like a champion.

[–] guer0071 13 years ago

From wiki:

The rules of football were codified in England by the Football Association in 1863 and the name association football was coined to distinguish the game from the other forms of football played at the time, specifically rugby football. The term soccer originated in England, first appearing in the 1880s as an Oxford "-er" abbreviation of the word "association".

[–] rukusswo97 13 years ago

Soccernimics is a great book.

As the poster above stated, Brits coined the term and abandoned it. Kinda like slavery.

[–] LtColonelBartlett 13 years ago

Football is the real name of the game while soccer is a abbreviation of 'Association Football' which was allegedly coined by Amateur player Charles Wreford Brown at Oxford University. Both have been used ever since and while the theory put forward by the Soccernimics book is interesting, I'd say the declining influence of the Amateur game is more responsible for the reduced use of the term 'soccer' in Britain.
Football was born as an amateur game in the public schools and universities with the professional sides coming later. Despite the professional game becoming more prevalent than the amateur one, proponents of Amateur soccer still remained in positions of power until recently, like the horrible Sir Harold Thompson who was Chairman of the FA in the 1970's.

***The only programme I'm likely to get on is the ------- news!***

[–] adamjwaite 9 years ago

Wow, really? You just had to throw that jab about slavery in at the end didn't you. As someone who loves all sports including soccer (aka football), I'll challenge your disrespect with this. Even though soccer is internationally known as football, and the most popular sport in the world, (American) football is the more dynamic sport. Therefor being a more compelling and challenging game, rightfully earns the pedigree of the name football if by being called so it is a recognition of it's superiority compared to all other sports based upon it's complexity. By the way, it was created in America.

[–] Irish_Pete 8 years ago

You mean hand-egg, where there's 11 minutes of actual action and a hundred breaks for beer commercials during a game? It's neither compelling nor challenging, it's grown men wearing lycra and body armour running round a field playing catch.

[–] indieinvestment 13 years ago

I knew I would get a good response here. That clears it up, thanks! Sorry if it was off topic; great movie though. I really enjoyed it (watched it twice). If I have anything negative to say about it I would say that it seemed to drift away from "facts" in the interest of pacing, story, climax...all of the usual reasons filmmakers give for changing books into film. Also, the scene where he stayed in the office during the home match with Leeds was confusing. I have seen this addressed in the boards but it still seems unrealistic to me.

Rule #76: No excuses. Play like a champion.

[–] LtColonelBartlett 13 years ago

Kuper's theory is flawed because the NASL wasn't taken seriously enough in the UK to warrant differentiating it from the British game by name. As kids we loved the glamour, the animated scoreboards, the tie breaking shootouts, the cheerleaders & the flashy strips. But even we regarded the NASL as a place where ageing stars like Pele & Bobby Moore could play out their days for big money.
Its great to see how the U.S game has developed since those days though, especially as the American media now finally accept it and give it the coverage it deserves.

***The only programme I'm likely to get on is the ------- news!***

[–] Prismark10 13 years ago

There were two types of football in Britain.

Rugby Football

Association Football.

Association was shortened to soccer. The words soccer and football were interchangeable until recent years when sport grew in popularity in the USA and adopted the term soccer in order to distinguish it from American football.

Its that man again!!

[–] thiselemental 13 years ago

I was born in 1966 and from when I was a child I don't recall Football ever being referred to as Soccer, apart from in the US obviously.

Incidently, as a Brit who's been living in the US for a few years I've come to appreciate a good "American Football" game as much if not more as a good Soccer one, but then I'm a Steelers fan. :P

[–] LtColonelBartlett 13 years ago

The term soccer was used a lot in the print & televison media in the '60's & 70's, for an example the 'Tiger' comic always had a 'Soccer Stars' annual. On the cover of the 1969-70 Charles Buchan annual, the main title is 'Charles Buchan's Soccer Gift Book', but at the foot of the cover reads 'World's Greatest Football Annual'.
I'm pretty sure the football highlights show in the Yorkshire region was called 'Soccer', but was later called 'Football Special' while in the midlands it was 'Star Soccer'.
Bear in mind that the decision makers in the media more than likely were from the public schools where the term soccer was originated.
In conclusion, both terms were used with,soccer the more colloquial.
***The only programme I'm likely to get on is the ------- news!***

[–] paul1314 13 years ago

My dad was going to St Mirren (in Soctland) from the mid 1940s and had never heard the word soccer til it came back across the Atlantic much later.

It is true that England had the 1863 FA and brought the world footballing bureaucracy (thanks guys). Most countries had a game with a ball to be kicked, various rules, although Scotland now claims fathership of the beautiful game as - bureaucracy aside - a 1600s rule book was produced for the game which includes the goal keeper, the watershed to give the modernday game. This definitely refers to football rather than soccer. So - not just snobbery, although it does kind of exist, I remember The Mary Whitehouse Experience doing a sketch lampooning the USA '94 World Cup Finals..........which neither Scotland nor England ended up qualifying for!!!!

[–] glenn-299 12 years ago

Slightly off topic but I grew up in New Zealand where 'football' means rugby union and I now live in Australia where it means Australian Rules in Melbourne and Rugby League in Queensland and New South Wales. But I've always disliked the word 'soccer' and use 'football' all the time. I was delighted when, some ten years ago Soccer Australia changed its name to Football Federation Australia. The New Zealand Football Association was founded in 1892, before the NZ Rugby Union but changed its name to Soccer New Zealand and has now, thankfully, seen the light and become New Zealand Football.

As a boy growing up in a rugby country, the trouble with 'soccer' was that it was used as a term of derision and it was very difficult to play football and be accepted by peers, parents and school-masters. I suspect that many Americans suffer from the same sporting prejudice if they embrace the World Game instead of a local sport.

[–] brisomboy 12 years ago

glenn-299,

That may have been true years ago, but now Football usually means Association Football, here in New Zealand. Even most of the rugby loving media refer to the game as Football and not soccer. Rugby Union is usually referred to simply as Rugby these days, while Rugby League is usually referred to simply as League. Only a few rugby die-hards insist on still using the name soccer.

Even when I was at school in the 1970's, teachers at my school in NZ had to stop referring to rugby as Football as kids would often turn up to the wrong sport. Trouble was most Football loving kids would support a British club and watch 'Match of the Day' and 'The Big Match' from the UK on tv, so they would know the game as Football.

A small correction to your post, the New Zealand Football Association was formed in 1891 and not 1892. It was the New Zealand Rugby Football Union that was formed in 1892. Interestingly the NZRFU now calls themselves the New Zealand Rugby Union dropping 'Football' from their name.

[–] imdb2-32 12 years ago

Both terms are interchangeable and accepted, no matter what football purists may or will say.

One can always say "NFL football" and "FIFA football" to differentiate or to be more precise.

[–] brisomboy 12 years ago

imdb2-32,

FIFA Football??? Why not the correct full name of Association Football, which is where the word soccer comes from (the soc in soccer comes from association).

When Football and Rugby went their seperate ways in the 19th century, the sports became known as Association Football and Rugby Football. Rugby Football was split into two sports and eventually became Rugby Union Football and Rugby League Football (initially Northern Rugby Football Union) but that's another story.

[–] ThatDoesntMatter 12 years ago

erm, it's football for everybody on the planet but the USA, so who cares what they call it???;-) I know what I mean when I say football (it's that game that's played with Your Foot! And a ball that is recognised as a ball by everybody on the planet).
FIFA is a global money making (laundering?) mafia operation that ruined football, NFL is the same inside the USA and has no meaning outside the USA - again, who cares...;-)

Just kiddin, though I do hold this truth to be self-evident: It's football.
Hugh, a purist has spoken.

[–] Htos_Drol 11 years ago

American 'football' should be called 'Handegg'. Because the ball is carried in the hands and is shaped like an egg.

[–] ThatDoesntMatter 11 years ago

haha, 'handegg', like it! :-)

[–] baldrickadder 9 years ago

Being in my fifties now, I've nearly always called it soccer, togger or footie. A lot of Brits who claim it has to be called football are just being pedantic and sad in my opinion. Even now on Sky Sports, they have a programme called Saturday Soccer Special. But somehow it seems to matter that you Americans call it soccer. I for one don't what you call it.

[–] gill-mcgovern 8 years ago

I am also in my fifties, in the UK, and have never heard football routinely called soccer.

Some of the other posters refer to football and rugby football. Here in Scotland the Edinburgh Academicals Football Club is a rugby club - because they were called that before Association Football was codified.