The Roman Empire collapsed and effectively ended in AD 480 when Theodoric the Great, King of the Ostrogoths, conquered Italy. In the East, based on Constantinople, known then as Byzantium, a sort of Roman empire continued until 1453 when the city and the regions fell to the Ottoman Turks.
After that date, there was an institution called the Holy Roman Empire, blessed by the Pope in Rome because it continued to defend the Roman church. This empire was notional and had no territory but had a monarch. Holy Roman Emperors were crowned by the Popes until the 16th century, and the last Emperor, Francis II, abdicated in 1806 during the Napoleonic Wars that saw the Empire's final dissolution. By then the empire was only a title: it had no power base or moral authority. That's the 1800's date you may have heard about.
In reality, the Roman empire ceased to exist in 480. After then, it was only a concept; not an effective economic, political or military entity.
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theromanempire-1
8 years ago
No u are wrong. theoderic conquered italy IN THE NAME OF THE EASTERN EMPEROR ZENO and he governed italy as a roman viceroy. he even resurrected the office of the praetorian prefect of the gauls.
all the so called "barbarians" of the west excluding the vandals accepted the yoke of rome and then the yoke of new rome after 476 ad and until 800 ad.
the western roman empire declined after 476 but it was not finished.
the frank king.....the visigothic king....the burgundian king......the ostrogoth king.......they all minted coins showing the face of the eastern emperor.
king clothar of the franks in 600 ad send a letter to emperor maurice in new rome calling him.................."TO AUGUSTUS AND ME FATHER....MAURICE"
In fact the roman empire was reunited after the 476 events under the rule of the eastern emperor. what changed was the imperial administration collapsed in various areas in the west............BUT ALL EASTERN EMPERORS RECOGNISED AS SOLE ROMAN EMPERORS IN THE WEST UNTIL 800 AD.
Only after charlemagne the unity finally broke also due to the arab expansion after 640 ad and the western empire was finished in the 9nth century AD.
it was revived like u said in name only in the later centuries until napoleon but it was in name only with no real power except in few cases like the reign of otho I in 962 AD.
the eastern empire survived like u said until 1453 AD.
SO FRIEND..........NO WESTERN EMPIRE FELL IN 480 AD.
WHAT FELL IT WAS THE LOSS OF THE IMPERIAL ADMINISTRATION UNTIL JUSTINIAN RECOVERED IN NEXT CENTURY MOST OF THE WEST.
THE REAL BREAK UP STARTED AFTER 600 AD WITH THE ARAB CONQUESTS AND WAS COMPLETED IN THE AFTER 800 AD EVENTS.
ROME'S GLORY LASTED LONGER THAN SOME PEOPLE MAY THINK.
IN 476 AD ODOACER DECLARED ZENO AS THE SOLE ROMAN EMPEROR. THE EMPIRE WAS UNITED AGAIN.
PS.
THERE WAS NEVER A BYZANTINE EMPIRE. THERE WAS THE EASTERN SECTION OF THE UNITED EMPIRE LIKE ALSO THERE WAS THE WESTERN SECTION OF A UNITED EMPIRE AT LEAST UNTIL THE 800 AD EVENTS.
AFTER 800 AD THE WESTERN SECTION FINALLY COLLAPSED AND WAS REFORMED TO THE STATUE OF THE HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE OF THE GERMANIC NATIONS AFTER 1530 AD AND THE EASTERN SECTION CONTINUED ON UNTIL 1453 AD.
IT WAS REALLY A GREEK MEDIEVAL STATE AFTER 800 AD BUT OFFICIALLY IT KEPT THE ROMAN NAME SO OFFICIALLY IT WAS AN EASTERN ROMAN EMPIRE BUT THE EASTER EMPERORS WERE NOT RECOGNISED OR HAD ANY POWER IN THE WEST AFTER THE 800 AD EVENTS.
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J-Street1
8 years ago
No, I would be right.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Emperor
The Western Roman Empire ended officially with the abdication of Romulus Augustus under pressure of Odoacer on 4 September 476, and unofficially with the death of Julius Nepos in 480.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Roman_Empire
29 May 1453 the capitol of the eastern empire fell to the Ottomans after a two-month siege
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Empire
You would be wrong. Thanks.
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theromanempire-1
8 years ago
dude....i'm not wrong...i'm a historian and rome's empire is my life so i know BETTER.
What u posted is from wikipedia stuff.........that's not what happened in reality.
u are right the eastern empire fell in 1453 ad. that's what i told u also.
now let's see whart happened in 476 ad
FACTS
Flavius odoacer was the leader of the federate army in italy serving the empire.
when the soldiers rebelled against the rule of orestis (father of the boy emperor romulus) cause they did not got land in italy they wanted odoacer marched on ravenna killed orestis and forced romulus to abdicate. THEN HE SEND THE IMPERIAL INSIGMIA TO THE EASTERN EMPEROR ZENO IN NEW ROME ACKKNOWLEDGING HIM AS THE SOLE ROMAN EMPEROR OF EAST AND WEST TELLING HIM THERE WAS NO NEED OF ANOTHER EMPEROR IN THE WEST.
ZENO AXXEPTED THE SITUATION AND OFFICIALLY THE EMPIRE WAS UNITED AGAIN UNDER ONE EMPEROR FOR THE FIRST TIME AFTER 80 YEARS.
THE ELITES OF THE WEST ACCEPTED ZENO AS SOLE EMPEROR AND MINTED COINS BEARING HIS NAME.
HIS SUCCESSOR ANASTASIUS I APPOINTED CLOVIS I IN 507 AD THE KING OF THE FRANKS AS A ROMAN CONSUL A TITLE WHICH CLOVIS ACCEPTED WITH GRADITUTE.
THE VISIGOTHIC KING STATED THAT THE EMPEROR IN NEW ROME WAS HOLY PERSON AND ANYONE WHO REBELS AGAINST HIS RULE IS GUILTY OF TREASON.
So my friend.....just cause some fools want to end the western empire in 476 ad that doesn't mean it happened that way.
If u want to search when the united roman empire fell u can start searching AFTER THE 800 AD events................not before.
from 476 to 800 the eastern roman emperor was THE ROMAN EMPEROR acknowledged in the east and in the west.
Constantine VI (780-797) was the last legitimate roman emperor was was acknowledged as such in the east and in the west.
the empire was nominally ONE from 476 to 800 ad and only after charlomagne's coronation in 800 ad the empire was formally divided in the western roman empire which was dissolvded by the end of the 9nth century and in the eastern empire which continued on until 1453 AD.
THERE WERE NEVER TWO EMPIRES UNTIL THE 800 AD EVENTS. THERE WERE ONLY A WESTERN AND AN EASTERN SECTION OF A NOMINALLY UNITED EMPIRE EVEN WHEN THERE WERE TWO EMPERORS OR MORE IN THE EAST AND IN THE WEST.
No one talked of a western or an eastern empire when the great constantine divided the empire to his 3 sons in 337 AD.
hope that u get the point here.
no empire fell in 476. the western empire submited to the rule of the eastern roman emperor until 800 ad. that's what happened in 476.
i know they teach in schools that in 476 ad the western empire ended BUT THAT'S WRONG.
THEY ALSO CALL THE EASTERN EMPIRE AS BYZANTINE EMPIRE...NOT ROMAN........THAT'S WRONG.
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J-Street1
8 years ago
What is your contemporary source? Let's see whom it agrees with more.
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theromanempire-1
8 years ago
oh..c'mon most of the historians state the facts of what i posted.
they wanted to pick a suitable date to end the empire of the west and they stated that 476 ad is a suitable date cause after romulus and nepos there was no emperor in the west until 800 ad.
so that suits to say the empire ended in the west......but that's not that simple like i explained the reasons above in my post.
it's the same thing as the so called BYZANTINE EMPIRE.
Now a days we call the eastern empire....BYZANTINE EMPIRE.
QUESTION
Are those byzantines called themselves as such ?
NO they were called ROMANS.
same thing with the 476 ad debate.
did odoacer said the western empire is no more exist ?
no....he said the western roman emperor is now also the eastern roman emperor = zeno
HOW THE EMPIRE ENDED IN THE WEST WHEN THE WEST ACCEPTED ZENO AND HIS SUCCESSORS AS THE ROMAN EMPERORS AND MINTED COINS BEARING THEIR NAMES UNTIL 800 AD ?
EVEN CHARLEMAGNE WAS CROWNED IN 800 AD AS ROMAN EMPEROR IN THE WEST SUCCESSOR NOT TO ROMULUS BUT TO THE DEPOSED EASTERN EMPEROR CONSTANTINE VI.
DID U KNEW THAT ?
THE WEST THOUGHT CONSTANTINE VI AS A SOLE ROMAN EMPEROR OF EAST AND WEST AND WHEN HE WAS DEPOSED IN 797 AD THE POPE OF ROME CROWNED CHARLEMAGNE AS HIS SUCCESSOR IN THE WEST AT LEAST AND CHrlemagne wanted to marry irene empress of the east so that he would unite east and west in the 9nth century ad.
irene was deposed and here begins the real break up of the empire although charlemagne was recognised by new rome as roman emperor there were tensinos and ultimately at the end of the century the western section of the empire was dissolved only to be resurrected decades late but in a different form.....THE HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE OF THE GERMANIC NATIONS (The later was added in 1530 ad).
the eastern empire was continued like u said also in a more greek form until 1453 AD.
here are a few sources.
JOHN BURY // HISTORY OF THE LATER ROMAN EMPIRE which covers the period from 400 to 800 events.
he says....how the western elites and the germans recognised new rome after 476 and explain in full what happened in 476 and how odoacer and later theoderic ruled italy which remained part of the roman empire like gaul and spain were regarded parts of the empire at least until the time of heraclius and further more.
DAVID CHRISWELL // THE RISE AND FALL OF THE HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE which covers the period from the 800 events to napoleonic wars.
there it says the empire was UNITED UNTIL 800 AD EVENTS. there's a chapter which is called.....LAST DAYS OF THE UNITED EMPIRE reffering to the 800 ad events.
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