MovieChat Forums > Ip Man (2008) Discussion > over-rated by a mile

over-rated by a mile

posted 13 years ago by a_hat_trick
91 replies | jump to latest

This movie was just average or even a bit below. Here the problems:

1) The sets looked just like what they were: over-dressed studios. Some of the outdoor scenes looked some cheap TV set with a bigger budget for props...it just had that horrible "indoors" feel to it.

2) The martial arts scenes featured silly historical errors--the Japanese gi (white uniforms) and black belts didn't exist back then--and wire work, which can be fun in a fantasy film but seems tacky in a bio pic.

3) The story of Ip Man's life was altered to fit the politics of the film so you cannot be sure what else is true or false of what they showed.

4) The dialogue and storyline was nearly predictable once you saw what the story was going for (and it hit you over the head repeatedly with it) and it was also simplistic--i.e., it obeyed all the tropes of the modest master story in kung fu literature.

5) We learn almost nothing about Wing Chun itself (which would be ok if we learned something about Ip Man that we can trust and that wasn't so cartoon hero-ish). It would have been nice to see a more extended scene with the wooden man ("mook jong") or the forms, just to see the art as an art and not in choreographed dances (again, fight scenes can be fun, but they are just too silly to really show off a style and its characteristics). The montage of people practicing the forms was nice, however. Just would have liked a bit more of that or something else to cover the art. :)

Yes, Donnie Yen was great to watch and he really inhabited the character he developed, but that was not enough.

[–] craigington 13 years ago

just be quiet and stop acting like an expert on martial arts and film making you pretentious knob.

[–] a_hat_trick 13 years ago

Yeah, why hold films to standards. Not like you'd visit discussion boards for that or anything. :) But thanks for your interest.

[–] copperdeerborn 13 years ago

d2, I just reread your original post. I think it's a mistake to hope for a text book telling of this tale. It's an entertainment release which I DO hold to a lower standard than say a Ken Burns PBS documentary. I just think you're setting yourself up for disappointment. When viewed through the lense of historical accuracy the film does seem like random pages were torn from the Cliff Notes version of his life and slapped into a screenplay so you do have grounds to gripe. This is why I wanted to give you a real response instead of the usual flippant internet bs. Now... a true documtary on Ip man would be very interesting to me but it probablly wouldn't do very well at the box office. Are there any films like this that live up to your standards?

Wherever you go, there you are.

[–] a_hat_trick 13 years ago

Thanks for the thoughtful response. I guess I don't mind playing fast and loose with a biography to make a film entertaining, but they didn't even use the Cliff Notes version, so to speak, they just fabricated so much...or at least too much for my taste. It's as if they took a famous US boxer or artist or politician and had him fight the Nazi's hand to hand as part of the movie. Just odd. Not like his life needed this for his story to be told.

[–] wulirob83 13 years ago

Please tell me where you found the entire history in its original form of Yip Man

[–] mark-hansen11 12 years ago

"I guess I don't mind playing fast and loose with a biography to make a film entertaining, but they didn't even use the Cliff Notes version, so to speak, they just fabricated so much...or at least too much for my taste."

It's never claimed to be documentary and shouldn't be expected as such.

"Not like his life needed this for his story to be told."

'This' being the movie? I think it did. I'm sure many people, along with myself, wouldn't have the faintest idea what you were talking about if you mentioned 'Ip'/'Yip'.

[–] copperdeerborn 13 years ago

Minor gripes. Have a Fresca.

Wherever you go, there you are.

[–] a_hat_trick 13 years ago

Bad writing, bad sets, and that's minor? :)

[–] copperdeerborn 13 years ago

The sets and writing were fine. The only semi-valid point was that the scope of the film was rather small. You didn't feel like you were educated on the subject matter. I doubt that giving a thorough education on the life and times of Ip man was the goal of the film makers. If you didn't care for these sets then I guess you hate every Shaw Brothers film ever made.

Wherever you go, there you are.

[–] a_hat_trick 13 years ago

I am sorry, they were not "fine." If you mean passable for a B movie, then ok, I'll agree. But the writing was very cheesy and extremely nationalistic. I guess I prefer my films with either more depth if they want to be political, or to just leave the politics out altogether.

The MA in the movie would have been great if not for the lack of realism. If there's one thing that's important to WC, it is the notion that WC is about essentialism in MA, but what we got here was wire work which I just don't care for in a film that is going for biography.

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] adriankeith 13 years ago

Saw my dad watching this and I tried to sit through it but the film was just garbage. I've seen a handful of HK films and I know they can be a whole lot better than this (thinking Infernal Affairs). I understand the point about nationalism but this was just way over the top for me.

As for the wires, there were scenes where the guy was practically FLYING. That hardly adds "realism."

It didn't have to be a straight biography of him but it could have at least showed a little bit more behind Wing Chun. The scene with the factory workers was pretty interesting but it had too much of a comedic take on it than I could stand.

It was an OK film but definitely doesn't deserve the 8.2 rating it got here. I have to agree with the OP that a lot of the sets looked really bad.

[–] a_hat_trick 13 years ago

"First, don't watch Hong Kong films if you don't like nationalism. Nationalism is deeply ingrained in the Asian culture (you did say you wanted realism, right?).China and Japan have always had a deep rivalry between them."

Plenty of Hong Kong films don't lay the nationalism on like this. And that there was tension in the history of the period does not justify that it be brought into the film to tell a tale that didn't happen about a real man.

"Second, without wires, the only way to get that realism is to actually have the actors beat the crap out of each other. Not the healthiest way to make a movie. Unless you actually expect the actors to kill themselves for your entertainment... "

That is completely false. There are pleny of movies that do not use wire work in their fight scense

"Third, without wires, you have to hire nothing but real martial artists. Then the movie becomes about the names and egos of those involved, and the acting and film quality suffer greatly. "

This is also nonsense. The actors are martial artists with or without the wires.

"Martial arts movies were in a slump. The wires made it possible to bring more realism to the fight sequences, which is what made it possible for them to make this movie for you to disparage. I can't verify the historical accuracy of the film, but it's kind of hard to make a film that takes place in wartime (THE pivotal time in Ip Mans' life) without the politics behind it.
If you're going to be a snob about movies, at least have some idea what you're talking about, please. "

I think you have the shoe on the other foot. Wires were not brought into increase realism. Your remarks are just all over the place. Are you even trying to make sense?

[–] a_hat_trick 13 years ago

"without wires, the only way to get that realism is to actually have the actors beat the crap out of each other."
That's backwards. A lot is possible in stage fighting without wires or beating each other up, and it will look more real.
"without wires, you have to hire nothing but real martial artists. "
So...these aren't martial artists? Hmmm.
"The wires made it possible to bring more realism to the fight sequences"
You've got it completely backwards again...the use of wires is not related to realism the way you think; they are generally used to help actors or stuntmen do things that are unrealistic.
"If you're going to be a snob about movies,"
It's not snobbish to have an opinion.

[–] hdotson10 13 years ago

i love the film on entertainment value alone. didn't know anything about Yip Man prior to the movie and i still don't know anything about him which is not a problem for me because there are plenty of movies based on a true story but truly only use the persons name without having any facts behind the movie. i would love to see a documentary on him a real one. i'm not commenting on the sets because honestly i didn't pay them any mind. i hate using wires in martial arts films but i didn't mind it in this one.

[–] agent_85 13 years ago

I'm someone who hates martial arts movies with a passion, and I was completely taken away by this movie (and subsequently the sequel). Quit Sperging over minor details, movies are made for ENTERTAINMENT, not historical accuracy. Get over it, go watch a documentary if you want something that stays 100% loyal to the source. Go back to your anime or whatever the hell it is you enjoy

[–] a_hat_trick 13 years ago

Childish.

[–] Blackace 13 years ago

dougrhess2, there was some wire work in here, but I didn't think it was overused like is many of the Once Upon A Time In China series. It was mostly used in the outside fights, but not with the inside one. Fist of Legend is a another movie that didn't use a lot of wire work fighting. I don't mind it if it's done right.

[–] metinemre 9 years ago

"extremely nationalistic" so you never watch any american film? :))

[–] futurehaker 12 years ago

You obviously are a critic and have no clue on what makes a great movie.

The work put into this movie was top notch! The acting was excellent. The fights were superior and the sound and music was the best I've ever seen in a martial arts movie.

On top of that, Donnie Yen steals the show. Somehow, prior to last year, I've never heard of Yip Man or Yip Man 2. I accidentally stumbled upon it here on IMDB and saw the ratings and preview. I loved everything I read and saw.

I was so excited after watching the 1st one that I immediately saw the 2nd one and I couldn't be more pleased as I was expecting Yip Man 2 to be worse (as 2nd parts usually are). I was pleasantly surprised and would argue that it's even better than the 1st one.

I just wish Donnie Yen would've been the guy to play Yip Man 3 and that he would make more movies like this. I just loved the way he fought, his confidence is so well portrayed and he was the perfect hero for me.

Yes, I'll agree with you about the wire work. It spoiled it a bit as it's obviously unrealistic and was unnecessary. But putting that aside, this is in the top 5 of my martial arts movies next with Bruce Lee. Watching Donnie was as inspirational to me as Bruce Lee is whenever I watch his movies. I always get fired up after watching Yip Man with Donnie Yen!

[–] lokostill 13 years ago

I've seen a lot of Martial Arts films since I was only 4 years old and this movie pretty much blew me away. I usually watch MA movies for the fight scenes just like a watch horror movies for the gore but even the storyline in this film was enjoyable and found myself feeling goosebumps on certain scenes. Im not sure what you expected but this is a karate movie, not a film directed by Frank darabont or scorsese. Either way I havent seen a MA movie this good since Fist Of Legend or Drunken Master.

If you consider this MA film bad, I would love to know what you actually consider good....please do tell.

[–] ZzBloopzZ 13 years ago

Same situation here. This movie just blew me away, I watched it twice. I rarely watch movies twice.

I would also like to know what MA movies the OP thinks were good. I don't really care how accurate a movie is. Movies are just for entertainment IMO. I was thoroughly entertained with this one. :c)

[–] burchronicus 13 years ago

I think the movie served its purpose. The fights were bad-ass and I was (at least) made aware of Ip Man and the fact that he actually existed. If the choreography was realistic, it would probably be a bit underwhelming and less dynamic.

Eat, my children, dance and eat!

[–] trickg1 13 years ago

Maybe the movie is overrated by a mile, but I still enjoyed it immensely and was thoroughly entertained. Isn't that kind of the point - to please the audience?

I noticed a lot of the same things you did, but I looked past it and just let myself be taken away by it so that I could enjoy it for what it was - an action movie.

[–] sarastro7 13 years ago

d2, I think your points of criticism are quite unfair. I think the production values are very slick, and above all the acting is generally convincing. In almost every way, what we get in this movie is on an absolutely superb and very high level, compared to the standards seen in other kung fu movies. This really is, as it has been called, one of the very best of its kind in its decade. You can't expect realism and historicity from this genre at this (still early!) point in its development. If you have such high standards, I really wonder which other kung fu movies actually meet them. It cannot be many.

[–] chaosbaron 12 years ago

While if I had to rate this film based on its production values, music, acting, character development and so on I would look on it more favorably, but If I had to look at it as anything as serious I couldn't. I loved the Matrix, and that was un realistic as possible, but this story is supposed to take place in the real world and to have actually happened. I felt they treated Ip man too much like he was Jesus Christ, and some of the fight scenes were so over the top I couldn't help but shake my head and laugh. IE when he fights rooms full of people or disarms the gun from the cops hand. The silly fight scenes pulled me out of any dramatic moments the movie could have delivered. The scene that should have really been powerful was the giving of the kite to Yuan (may have the name wrong) after he joined the robbers and learned his brother had been beaten to death, unfortunately, it just felt overshadowed by martial arts Jesus running around fighting the "evil" japanese.

[–] sarastro7 12 years ago

It seems to me like you're not the proper audience for a kung fu movie.

[–] michelle-halloway 11 years ago

I thought the movie was under-rated. I knew nothing of this incredible person and this amazing martial arts. I have a lot of respect for this man after how he would not take any nonsense from the Japenese. I loved this movie; I love the seeming effortlessness of his technique as others exert themselves but cannot beat him. That comes from the spirit of the man as well as technique and to just capture a glimpse of that is inspiring. The movie portrays more than a glimpse, but I would be keen to research this myself and it would be a first choice of martial arts practice if a person had the privelage to learn such arts.

[–] michelle-halloway 11 years ago

[–] evensong_07 13 years ago

In regards to number 5 (the only one I really care about), most schools of WC say, if you want to learn about the forms, go to a class. Even the actual WC videos you find online have minor differences from the actual forms, ESPECIALLY the more advanced ones like the Jong. If you are really paying attention to the fighting, even the stylized stuff, you learn a lot about Wing Chun.

[–] Blackace 13 years ago

If you were expecting a perfect documentary of the life of Ip Man and how Wing Chun became part of his life, then yes the movie is far from perfect in that category. This is not a detailed account of Ip Man. It's more like a short summary of a part of his life in Foshan. How he interacted with his family, friends and enemies. It's a period piece more then anything and that's what they were going for. I think they wanted to give some history, but also give plenty of martial arts action that the fans crave. The movie and scenery looked great to me. I thought the props, homes, streets and markets were put together very well. I didn't think the story was rushed in the beginning, toward the end it seemed like it moved a bit to quick though. Even though I loved just about all the Wing Chun action from Donnie Yen, I was a bit disappointed on the last fight. I thought it was too short. Whereas the last fight in Ip Man 2 was too long.

I agree, they probably should have covered the Wing Chun art a bit more. I thought this was going to be done in the 3rd movie. I was hoping for another sequel that would show Ip Man training Bruce Lee. That is something I really wanted to see. Still, this movie is brilliantly created. I've watched it 4 times now and I'm never bored of it. It's one of my Top 10 Martial Arts movies along with Fist of Legend, Drunken Master 2, The 36th Chamber of Shaolin and Once Upon A Time In China. I definitely don't think it's overrated. I actually thought the score on here was a bit low. Everyone has their own opinion though, but I love this movie. I will definitely watch it many more times in the future.

[–] a_hat_trick 13 years ago

"If you were expecting a perfect documentary of the life of Ip Man..."

No, I just don't expect extreme distortions and complete fabrications. The man led an interesting life, why go off and make up a completely different one for him?

[–] 13 years ago

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