Heading for a lawsuit... - Virtuality (2009) Discussion

[–] robertwaynemoore 16 years ago

Boring.

If every show that bore some resemblence to some other show got sued, we'd have no shows.

This is the biggest non-issue with regard to this show that has been raised.

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[–] WalletGuy 16 years ago

Virtuality sounds a lot like Philip K. Dick's short story "I Hope I Shall Arrive Soon" also titled "Frozen Journey". Here is the plot synopsis of that story, it even has a 10 year journey like in this tv show: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Hope_I_Shall_Arrive_Soon

I haven't read the Haldeman story so I can't really say anything about that.
The bottom line is that as long as only the basic plot is similar to other things and details are not taken, there will be no lawsuits. Unless Harlan Ellison is involved of course...

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[–] evebay39 15 years ago

Well speaking of which, can I offer The Starlost

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0069638/

pre virtual reality, but each of the zones on the ship looks like parts of Earths past and developed different communities that they move between. Creator? Well, see for yourself.

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[–] mlauzon 15 years ago

I remember watching that on Sunday mornings in '84, yes it was originally on in '73 three years before I was born; I was living in Montreal at the time and don't remember what channel was showing reruns but it was probably something like CBC or TVO.

Michael
http://asrokhel.mybrute.com/

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[–] moviemythulto 15 years ago

Star Lost was based on Robert Heinlein's story "Orphans of the Sky" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orphans_of_the_Sky

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] meadhbh-siobhan 15 years ago

ack. i move we institute a new rule similar to godwin's law... anyone who mentions "the star lost" while discussing a science fiction program loses and the thread ends. but, since we don't have that rule, let me mention "the starcrossed" by ben bova (http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/b/ben-bova/starcrossed.htm) which also seems to have elements that are re-used in this show.

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[–] kerryedavis 9 years ago

ack. i move we institute a new rule similar to godwin's law... anyone who mentions "the star lost" while discussing a science fiction program loses and the thread ends. but, since we don't have that rule, let me mention "the starcrossed" by ben bova (http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/b/ben-bova/starcrossed.htm) which also seems to have elements that are re-used in this show.

Except Ben Bova (who I like, and whose own separate writing I've enjoyed) was a technical consultant on The Starlost, and his "Starcrossed" was his fictionalized account of his experiences with that show. So by that rule, you lose too. :-)

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[–] tarnower-1 15 years ago

How about ***EVERY*** episode of ST:TNG that featured the holodeck?

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[–] ganda1f 15 years ago

This is also startlingly similar to a Red Dwarf episode, which no doubt borrowed from the P K Dick story.

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[–] montimer 15 years ago

More importantly, it sounds like all of the Star Trek 'holodeck' episodes. Let's just hope it isn't.

Kill the Ratner... Save the world

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[–] TheAdlerian 15 years ago

I'm not kidding here.

On the Scifi Channel boards I wrote how BSG should end so that it made sense, and wrote almost exactly how it did end. Now, those posts are missing.

That was about two years ago.

Phillyfreedomforum.com

A free speech forum, not just for Philly!

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[–] 1shado1 15 years ago

TheAdlerian wrote:

I'm not kidding here.

On the Scifi Channel boards I wrote how BSG should end so that it made sense, and wrote almost exactly how it did end. Now, those posts are missing.

That was about two years ago.
-------------------------------------------------

Are you inferring there's some sort of conspiracy going on regarding your posts on the subject?

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] HyperPup 15 years ago

Oh my God, you are not kidding. They delete/censor posts for the comments on SciFi Wire, Fidgit and Device too. Especially if the discussion turns political, like when some of the BSG stars went to the UN. Anything that slammed the UN or BSG was instantly deleted.

Thousands die every day for no reason at all, where's your bleeding heart for them?

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[–] Euphrosyne 15 years ago

Also, the ending to bsg was cr@p in my opinion.
I wouldn't want to take credit for it.

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[–] Spongeyone 15 years ago

Also, the ending to bsg was cr@p in my opinion.
I wouldn't want to take credit for it.

Saw someone writing this a mile away

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[–] discophysh 15 years ago

well your ending sucked anyway.

All right, look, there's only one "Return," okay, and it ain't "of
the King," it's "of the Jedi.

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[–] eljimster 15 years ago

I'm not kidding here.

On the Scifi Channel boards I wrote how BSG should end so that it made sense, and wrote almost exactly how it did end. Now, those posts are missing.

That was about two years ago.

You have to be careful about what you post on a networks forums, often when you sign up they'll have something in the Terms of use saying that anything you say/post they can claim and use as there own IP basically.

Plagiarism is rife in the industry unfortunately. You only have to take The Matrix as one of the biggest examples of this. Search for Sophia Stewart and The Third Eye if your interested in that.

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[–] boombye 14 years ago

eljimster, the Sophia Stewart thing is a case of people on the internet beveling anything. First of all, of all the sites her story was posted, the main source was a college paper, and the rest of the websites that promoted the story were all hosted and owned by the same people, who were promoting their Utah hip hop scene and local radio. She never even showed up to court actually because she would have been counter-sued for everything she had, she took art work by a known comic book artist that was featured in the Matrix comics volume 1, a pic a sentinel to be exact, from right out of that book, and claimed it's her. She took a page out of their own comic and said that it was her own evidence, that she drew that, and it was proof she made it, when it was already available for years prior to that to the public... Anyway she was full of it, and I have read excerpt of her story and they're no different than Assassin's Creed or a Philip K. Dick story or any story dealing with tidbits of masonic symbolism and obvious allegories... I mean it took place in Egypt for crying out loud and had nothing to do with the Matrix.... Also Philosophy and Religion did it before any of them, from Hinduism and Buddhism to Maya, the concept of our world being an illusion is 1000s of years old.

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[–] asherrod 14 years ago

TheAdlerian wrote:

--------------------------
I'm not kidding here.

On the Scifi Channel boards I wrote how BSG should end so that it made sense, and wrote almost exactly how it did end. Now, those posts are missing.

That was about two years ago.
----------------------------

Erich vonDaniken wrote that conclusion in the 1960's, and the specific details in Gold of the Gods in the early 80's.

I was worried that was the ending that was coming pretty early in the series. After all, they weren't going to do the BSG 1980 version, coming to modern Earth, so the only alternative was the vonDaniken route.

I was still disappointed to see it end that way, though. I had hoped they would find something better, but no...

UPDATE: Having watched the whole series a second time straight through, I am of more mixed feelings about this. I still find the vonDaniken ending cringe-worthy, but considering what a mess it seemed to be headed toward, I suppose it was the best we could get after about the beginning of the fourth series.

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[–] kamita 15 years ago

PKD wrote about that same topic on "A Maze of Death" on 1970.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Maze_of_Death

and I also recommend you another earlier work:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_cave

Writers. So full of it. Incoming lawsuit from Plato! :D

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[–] marcosmalo 15 years ago

I think it's even closer to PKD's novel Maze of Death, although Phil recycled components of his stories a lot.

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] Cheshyre 14 years ago

yeah, I thought THIS was a Philip K. Dick story!

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[–] cthulhumon 13 years ago

The synopsis made me instantly think of a different Philip K. Dick book, but to say which would spoil its ending because the first twist is that the character were in a VR simulation for their long journey through space.

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[–] solitaire40 15 years ago

"Old Twentieth" takes place on board the starship Aspera, on a thousand-year voyage to Beta Hydrii. To keep the crew sane, the starship is equipped with a virtual reality system which lets the crew members visit other locations and time periods. Not surprisingly, the VR system develops a serious flaw."

SPOILER FOR LIFE ON MARS

Hmmm sounds like the series finale for Life on Mars.

A glitch in the system and Sams off into the 70s.

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[–] jamma_man69 15 years ago

Issac Asminov laso had a story like that in the 60's

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[–] raygions-1 15 years ago

Brunner, too.

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[–] hipeople77 15 years ago

Every idea is a rehashed idea. Its all been done. The trick is to tell it in a way its never been told before.

"And on each end of the rifle we're the same"-"Christmas in the Trecthes" John McCutcheon

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[–] Polaris01313-1 15 years ago

If Ronald Moore and his writing partner should be slapped with a lawsuit, it should be for desecrating the original Battlestar Galactica with that God-awful remake they did for the Sci-Fi Channel. Let alone the soon to be awful New Caprica or whatever the spin-off is going to be called.

Talk about Galactica 1980 X 3!

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[–] accendi-lux 15 years ago

Old Galactica was awful. Very awful. New BSG took all the good ideas old BSG had, added better ones, and made a great show out of it. Moore's BSG is everything a great sci-fi show should be.

That being said though, I'm not so impressed with Virtuality's concept or pilot. Sci-fi shows DO often start off very weak; Farscape was a great series, but the first season wasn't anywhere near the same level as the rest of the show. However, I just don't see this series going anywhere.

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[–] ginogoneforever 15 years ago

THE TRUTH ABOUT THE ONE AND ONLY BATTLESTAR GALACTICA (as created by Glen A Larson)
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"Battlestar Galactica, the definitive battle between the last surviving human colony and an evil robotic race, premiered on ABC in 1978 to an audience of 65 million viewers. The show remained a top-15 series throughout its brief run, and was eventually cancelled due to the prohibitively expensive special effects. From legendary television series creator Glen A. Larson (Magnum P.I., The Six Million Dollar Man), this science fiction adventure starring Lorne Green, Richard Hatch and Dirk Benedict quickly established itself as an epic and powerful television saga.

Considered cutting-edge for its time, Battlestar Galactica took home Emmy Awards for Outstanding Costume Design for a Series and Outstanding Individual Achievement - Creative Technical Crafts."

http://dvd.ign.com/articles/426/426739p1.html

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[–] ginogoneforever 15 years ago

by uther8 (Tue Jun 30 2009 17:27:17) Ignore this User | Report Abuse

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get real. The original BSG failed. The new version didn't.

REALITY:

By todays's cable standards GINO's ratings are nothing to write home about. GINO had it's chance to score big on major network tv and this is what happened:
________________________

CBS Sinks NBC's 'Battlestar' on Saturday

(Sunday, July 10 08:38 AM)

LOS ANGELES (Zap2it.com) Fast National ratings for Saturday, July 9, 2005.
Led by a pair of episodes of "48 Hours," CBS won all three primetime hours on Saturday, though The Eye still couldn't beat FOX in the coveted young adult demographics.

Overall, CBS averaged a 4.3 rating/9 share, outdistancing second place FOX's 3.7/7. ABC was a distant third with a 2.7/5. NBC, which ran three hours of the Sci Fi Channel drama "Battlestar Galactica" was a dismal fourth with a 1.8/4.

FOX came in first among adults 18-49, doing a 2.1 rating in the demographic advertisers love the most. ABC was second with a 1.5 rating, followed closely by the 1.4 rating for CBS. NBC trailed again with a 0.9 rating.

CBS started the night off right with a 3.8/8 for "48 Hours Mystery," good enough to beat FOX's "COPS" (3.3/7) for the hour. ABC was third with the 2.2/5 first hour of "The Emperor's New Groove," while NBC was last with the beginning of the "Battlestar Galactica" marathon.

At 9 p.m., CBS got a 4.3/9 from "Cold Case," edging the 4.1/8 for "America's Most Wanted" on FOX. The second hour of ABC's Disney movie was third, while NBC got a 1.8/3 from its "Galactica" hour.

The second "48 Hours" episode delivered the night's strongest ratings for CBS, with a 4.9/10. ABC moved up to second with a 3.2/7 for "America's Funniest Home Videos." NBC remained last with "Battlestar."

http://battlestargalactica.me/outside_docs/scipulse_006.htm

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While Barbecues Sizzle, Ratings Fizzle

Three programs produced fireworks over the Fourth of July week; everything else fizzled. The three programs were the finale of ABC's Dancing With the Stars, which attracted 22.4 million viewers and was by far the most-watched show of the week; another was the season opener of Big Brother 6, which drew 8.5 million viewers; and the third was the season premiere of USA Network's Monk, which, with 6.4 million viewers, drew bigger audiences than many network shows last week. Otherwise, the week produced the smallest audiences of the year.

Indeed NBC drew one of its lowest ratings ever with a two-hour showcase of Battlestar Galactica set to air on Sci Fi channel, an NBC corporate sibling. It turned out to be the lowest-rated show of the week on any of the major networks, drawing just 2.3 million viewers.

The evening newscasts finished with virtually unchanged ratings, with NBC leading with 8.7 million viewers, ABC following with 8.2 million, and CBS trailing with 6.8 million. All of the networks experienced a spike in their ratings on Thursday following the terrorist attacks in London.

http://www.imdb.com/news/ni0086827/

"Actress Katee Sackhoff sat down with reporters on the Vancouver set of her latest film WHITE NOISE 2...

There was talk on one point of putting us on NBC. I think everybody on the cast was like, 'No. We'd be canceled after a week. There's no way.' We wouldn't get the ratings, and we all know that."

http://www.zap2it.com/tv/news/zap-kateesackhoffbattlestargalacticaseas on3secrets,0,6358727.story

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TOS does what GINO couldn't do make the Sky 1 Top 10!

Sky One Individuals 4+ Viewing (Including Timeshift) - w/e 22/06/2008
Programme 000's
1 GLADIATORS (Sun 1800) 671
2 DONT FORGET THE LYRICS (Sun 1903) 453
3 THE SIMPSONS (Wed 1933) 362
4 FILM: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA (1979) (Tue 2102) 308
5 THE SIMPSONS (Mon 1900) 289
6 THE SIMPSONS (Thu 1901) 286
7 THE SIMPSONS (Wed 1900) 280
8 THE SIMPSONS (Fri 2001) 278
9 THE SIMPSONS (Tue 1932) 269
10 TOP 50 CELEBRITY MELTDOWNS (Sun 2102) 252

http://stallioncornell.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5868&p=10 9244&hilit=galactica+uk+tos+ratings&sid=41007b1c76e23d396ceea9 b75f3d8f5c#p109244

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] ginogoneforever 15 years ago

Reruns of ENTERPRISE and made for tv movies matching GINO ratings

(The worst of the STAR TREK spin offs) ENTERPRISE reruns match GINO firstrun episodes in ratings! :lol:

Post subject: Skiffy Top 10 (1/8/07 - 1/14/07)

1 Gendel 1.7

2 ECW 1.4

3 Star Trek: Enterprise 1.2 [GINO episodes JUPITER and RAPTURE both scored a 1.4 in the ratings]

4 Basilisk: Serpent King 1.0

5 Jake 2.0 0.9

6 Jason and the Argonauts, part two 0.9

7 Monster Man 0.9

8 The Last Starfighter 0.8

9 Falcon Down 0.8

10 Jason and the Argonauts, part one 0.8

Source: Nielsen Galaxy Report, 1/8/07 -- 1/14/07

GINO barely beats out a 20 year old made-for-tv movie with a 1.5!

Post subject: Skiffy Top 10 (1/22/07 - 1/28/07)

1 Battlestar Galactica 1.5
2 The Dresden Files 1.5
3 ECW 1.5
4 Gryphon 1.5
5 The Day After 1.4
6 Pterodactyl 1.2
7 Disaster Zone: Volcano 1.2
8 Merlin part two 1.1
9 Timeline 1.1
10 Merline part one 0.9

Source: Nielsen Galaxy Report, 1/22/07 -- 1/28/07

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[–] Askur 15 years ago

If they are going to make a movie about a generation ship, I wouldn't mind seeing Brian Aldiss' Non-Stop or Robert A. Heinlein's Orphans of the Sky.

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[–] HHFan 15 years ago

1. Its hardly a brilliant fantastic new concept.
2. Moore wrote his first holodeck story for TNG in 1990, and after that the holodecks broke down on a frequent basis.

When ever you kids see something new which is fantastic - always remind yourself that it has probably been done 20 times already (and often better).

--
Lets nuke the site from orbit - its the only way to be sure.

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[–] lee-sincere 15 years ago

Not to mention half the Cyberpunk genre is a transplanting of pulp stories from 60 years ago, and the "Magnificient Seven" is the "Seven Samurai" in the west.

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[–] zeta1983-1 15 years ago

I write sci-fi and I always figured virtual reality would be the primary form of entertainment on long space voyages. It doesn't surprize me others have also reached the same conclusion.

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[–] Polaris01313-1 15 years ago

"Old Galactica was awful. Very awful. New BSG took all the good ideas old BSG had, added better ones, and made a great show out of it. Moore's BSG is everything a great sci-fi show should be."

Sure, if you like remakes or watching the same old s**t over and over again on a different day.

I would hardly qualify the new BSG as a great show or everything a great sci-fi show should be.

What I would equate Ron Moore's remake with is definately Galactica 1980, the Logan's Run television series, the second and third seasons of SeaQuest DSV, and the useless Star Trek spinoffs that came out after the original series.

Loosely translated, Ronald Moore's new BSG is nothing more than a piece of childish crap(i.e. s**t).

Thankfully, one that is no longer on the air.

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] accendi-lux 15 years ago

I find it mildly ironic that I happened to see another post of yours that said this:

"Sometimes fandom can lead to fanaticism. Especially for those who don't like change on the cinematic arts front."

Moore's BSG was a change. It was considerably darker and more mature than the original. Between that and some of Moore's significant changes (i.e. Starbuck and Boomer being female, the Cylons being created by mankind, etc.), it alienated some fans of the original. But it was hardly repetitive, and the writing was anything but childish. Indeed, it was probably the most mature, intelligent show on the air through much of its run. From the way you talk about it, I don't think you've actually seen it yourself, and if you have, it was probably only the miniseries that launched the series, which is on a markedly lower level than the actual series. And while you're correct that it's no longer on the air, it (unlike its predecessor) was not cancelled and successfully finished its run with both critical and popular support.

I can agree with you on Galactica 1980 (though I would argue that the original series was not really all that much better; and suffered from overuse of formula, and unlike Star Wars or Alien became dated by its era), the Logan's Run series (which was both unnecessary and painfully pedestrian), and the second and third seasons of SeaQuest DSV (which, alas, was destroyed by the foolishness of meddling network executives).

As for the Star Trek spin-offs being useless, I will simply disagree. In my opinion, The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine both outshone the original series, which, while it had strong characters and was revolutionary, has aged very poorly and was not executed to the fullest of its own potential.

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[–] Thereminator101 15 years ago

I'll second "Orphans of the Sky"...whould make a great movie and effects!

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[–] tomgjcromwell 15 years ago

"Old Twentieth" was written in 2005, therefor it is a rip-off of the 1988 television series where the crew of a spaceship goes on a 5 year mission to other planets, and use an artificial reality system to stay entertained on the journey that lets crew members visit other locations and time periods. Not surprisingly, the VR system develops a serious flaw.

This television show was called "Star Trek: The Next Generation." I expect Haldeman will be hearing from Moore's lawyers any day now.

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[–] excalibur1814 15 years ago

What you've written above sounds like many Star Trek: TNG episodes

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