MovieChat Forums > Kill the Messenger (2014) Discussion > I'm very late for this but ....

I'm very late for this but ....


President Reagan had his reasons to do what he did, and I am not discussing this (Cold War etc). I only wish to recognize that Gary Webb has shown a lot of courage in pursuing the truth, and every person who treated him like a liar and pariah after this, should have went to him and apologize when the report was released. Whether all these people realise this or not, they pushed him to suicide.

I'm very late for this but: R.I.P. Mr. Webb. God bless.

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My sentiments entirely.



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Agree, but I would not say that Reagan had his reasons to do
what he did, and much of what Reagan did has been responsible
for bringing down the US, or at least the majority of the American
people.

Also, how does someone commit suicide by shooting themselves
twice in the head? How does that work?

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I only wish to recognize that Gary Webb has shown a lot of courage in pursuing the truth, and every person who treated him like a liar and pariah after this, should have went to him and apologize when the report was released.


Contrary to what this movie (and Webb supporters) have claimed: none of the 3 Federal investigation into this backed Webb's claims. (Especially the most significant ones.) Probably the most damaging of all of them was the DOJ investigation.





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Whether all the details were exactly as he was told by his sources or not, I wouldn't know. However he was obviously on the right track, and certainly didn't deserve to be treated that way.

"On April 17, 1986, the Reagan Administration released a three-page report acknowledging that there were some Contra-cocaine connections in 1984 and 1985, arguing that these connections occurred at a time when the rebels were "particularly hard pressed for financial support" because U.S. aid had been cut off."

"In the 623rd paragraph, the report described a cable from the CIA's Directorate of Operations dated October 22, 1982, describing a prospective meeting between Contra leaders in Costa Rica for "an exchange in [the United States] of narcotics for arms, which then are shipped to Nicaragua."[16][non-primary source needed] The two main Contra groups, US arms dealers, and a lieutenant of a drug ring which imported drugs from Latin America to the US west coast were set to attend the Costa Rica meeting. The lieutenant trafficker was also a Contra, and the CIA knew that there was an arms-for-drugs shuttle and did nothing to stop it."


"Testimony of the CIA Inspector General

Six weeks after the declassified and heavily censored report was made public, Inspector General Hitz testified before a House congressional committee.[15] Hitz stated that:
Volume II ... will be devoted to a detailed treatment of what was known to CIA regarding dozens of people and a number of companies connected in some fashion to the Contra program or the Contra movement that were the subject of any sort of drug trafficking allegations. Each is closely examined in terms of their relationship with CIA, the drug trafficking activity that was alleged, the actions CIA took in response to the allegations, and the extent of information concerning the allegations that was Shared with U.S. law enforcement and Congress. As I said earlier, we have found no evidence in the course of this lengthy investigation of any conspiracy by CIA or its employees to bring drugs into the United States. However, during the Contra era, CIA worked with a variety of people to support the Contra program. These included CIA assets, pilots who ferried supplies to the Contras, as well as Contra officials and others. Let me be frank about what we are finding. There are instances where CIA did not, in an expeditious or consistent fashion, cut off relationships with individuals supporting the Contra program who were alleged to have engaged in drug trafficking activity or take action to resolve the allegations.

Hitz also said that under an agreement in 1982 between Ronald Reagan's Attorney General William French Smith and the CIA, agency officers were not required to report allegations of drug trafficking involving non-employees, defined as paid and non-paid "assets"—pilots who ferried supplies to the contras, as well as contra officials and others.

This agreement, which had not previously been revealed, came at a time when there were allegations that the CIA was using drug dealers in its controversial covert operation to bring down the leftist Sandinista government in Nicaragua.Only after Congressional funds were restored in 1986 was the agreement modified to require the CIA to stop paying agents whom it believed were involved in the drug trade."


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That certain Contra elements (including some assets that we were using to get supplies to them) were mixed up in the drug trade was fairly well known by the time Webb's Dark Alliance series came out and was not what garnered his series so much attention. The central claim of his series was that Ross's "Contra" suppliers (i.e. Blandon and Meneses) helped him "spark a crack explosion in [L.A. and] urban America". This was shown to be baseless:

"The OIG investigation found little to support the Mercury News' claims concerning Ross' and Blandon's allegedly seminal roles in the proliferation of crack cocaine in Los Angeles. The OIG uncovered even less evidence to support the allegations concerning Ross' and Blandon's roles in the spread of crack cocaine across the nation."--DOJ report

The series also claimed that millions from these sales wound up in the Contras pocket, when in fact, at most, somewhere between 40-100k dollars went to them. That's an important distinction: Blandon and Meneses were not Contras who funneled their money all to them. They were drug dealers sympathetic to their cause who (at most) donated a 6 figure amount to them. That’s an important distinction that Webb didn't make. Another allegation that was made was the CIA or other Federal agencies were protecting these guys. The DOJ & CIA reports make clear: this was not the case.

From the CIA report:

Did CIA have any relationship or dealings with Ross, Blandon or Meneses?

No information has been found to indicate that any past or present employee of CIA, or anyone acting on behalf of CIA, had any direct or indirect dealing with Ricky Ross, Oscar Danilo Blandon or Juan Norwin Meneses. Additionally, no information has been found to indicate that CIA had any relationship or contact with Ronald J. Lister or David Scott Weekly, the person Lister allegedly claimed was his CIA contact. No information has been found to indicate that any of these individuals was ever employed by CIA, or met by CIA employees or anyone acting on CIA's behalf.

Did CIA intervene or otherwise play a role in any investigative and judicial processes involving the drug trafficking activities of Ross, Blandon or Meneses?

No information has been found to indicate that CIA hindered, or otherwise intervened in, the investigation, arrest, prosecution, or conviction of Ross, Blandon or Meneses. CIA shared what information it had--specifically on Meneses' 1979 drug trafficking in Nicaragua--with U.S. law enforcement entities when it was received and again when subsequently requested by the FBI.





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You go on and believe the "official" story like a good little sheep. I bet you believe the 911 commissions report and think the twin towers were knocked down by a couple of airplanes too. Time to wake up my friend. The government is in the business of lying and will do whatever it takes at any cost to keep their secrets quiet.

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I don't need to believe the official story: Webb's own numbers undermine his conclusions. And anyone who knows anything about the drug trade knows his version of events doesn't fit the time line of cocaine's introduction in this country (or Los Angles for that matter).

In any case, if you have read 'Dark Alliance' [the book and the series] or Nick Schou's book, you know there are issues with this movie. We are talking things in here that Webb himself didn't claim. Don't get me wrong: it's a pretty good movie (well acted and so forth). But it's a bit like Oliver Stone's JFK in terms of the historical record.




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RIP Webb. Nicely done.

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I've watched far too many Federal Investigations that my opinion is the outcome is already determined before the first witness is sworn in, and most of them are dog and pony shows. Not long ago I watched a documentary about what actually happened in Dallas when JFK was assassinated and it made so much sense it has to be the truth. It also explains why the pristine bullet dubbed the 'magical bullet' was found on the hospital stretcher, because it was put there to save the Sec Serv so much embarrassment. Seems that all the Sec Serv guys were hungover, including George Hickey riding in the car directly behind JFK's and when the first shot from Oswald went off, Hickey reached for his Ar-15 which he had never been trained to use, stumbled, and he accidentally fired it directly into JFk's skull. But since they had to account for 3 shots from Oswald the theory goes, "someone" just dropped a nearly pristine bullet onto the stretcher. "Oh gee whilikers, look, here's the 3rd bullet, fell outta somewhere and is just sitting on this empty stretcher". And the veteran Australian police detective who had spent four years investigating the assassination hypothesizes that everyone (in Government) wanted to save the Sec Serv's reputation, which is ironic because, well they failed. And it's said that 75% of the American public don't believe the Warren Commission which btw has placed a 75 year seal on some of the evidence. And in my opinion there's only one reason for that. You can read all about it at the Daily Mail, I find his evidence absolutely to be the actual facts.

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You don't need to accept the government investigation as accurate......as I said in this thread: Webb's own numbers undermine his conclusions.

Furthermore, I cannot think of a single drug expert I've ever read or listened to that said the Contras or Nicaraguans in general played a pivotal role in cocaine importation or the crack epidemic. Indeed, at Webb's own paper Pete Carey (who co-wrote the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake story with Webb; a series of stories that won the staff of SJMN a Pulitzer Prize) called 30 cocaine experts and not one of them agreed with the notion "that Ross played a critical role in either crack cocaine's origins or its eventual spread throughout the country" (to quote a line directly from 'Kill The Messenger' (p.155) that didn't make it into the movie).

Looking at the manpower involved as a whole: in 'Dark Alliance' Webb lamented about the lack of public outrage that the CIA “had worked cheek by jowl with more than 50 suspected drug traffickers”. To put that number in perspective, according to 'The War on Drugs: An International Encyclopedia': "an estimated 300 Colombian trafficking groups and 20,000 Colombians were involved in the cocaine trade in the United States [by the late 80's]. At least 5,000 of the Colombians who worked for the cartels lived in the Miami area and another 6,000 in the Los Angeles area." In other words: the cartels had about as much manpower in the United States alone than were in the entire Contra movement. (The Medellin cartel employed 750,000 people in Medellin.) So needless to say, the cocaine trade wasn't hinging on 50 guys associated with the Contras or the Nicaraguans in general.

So you don't need to take the government's word for anything.






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cia is drug dealer number one in the world.

war on drug is war on competition.

many facts comforts the theory like

* the timing of afghanistan invasion how the taliban had stopped opium farming completely & how in a matter of 6 month after us invasion afghanistan was back as number one heroin producer in the world. peasants can't achieve that olone, those that achieve have to be hugely powerful & backed up by the invaders - if they're not the same they're partners so they're the same.

* timing of escobar death

war on drug is war on competition but if you wait for an official investigation to confirm it for you, you'll die in ignorance.

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... and every person who treated him like a liar and pariah after this, should have went to him and apologize when the report was released.
Nice sentiment, but I think the movie pretty clearly depicts why that would never occur.🐭

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How does someone commit suicide by shooting themselves
twice in the head? How does that work?

reply