The Red Sox embraced the Moneyball philosophy? Total BS.

Yes, the Red Sox signed several players that had high OBP. Every team does that, especially teams like the Red Sox who have the money to afford all those players. The whole point of the Moneyball philosophy for Oakland was to use it to assemble players that could be effective while fitting their limited payroll.

And yes, Damon did have one of his best seasons the year they won the World Series, but he was acquired by the Red Sox before the A's adopted the Moneyball philosophy, so was Manny Ramirez and Pedro Martinez, who without the Red Sox likely wouldn't have won the World Series. So the film suggesting that they won the World Series because of the Moneyball philosophy when they had most of their key players before they supposedly embraced it is BS.

And Johnny Damon had one of his best seasons that year (20 HR and a 3.80 OBP) which he wouldn't have had hitting in the cavernous Coliseum.

Varitek was with the Sox since 97 Ramirez since 2001 Ortiz OBP was garbage before he came to Boston

Moneyball was never about OBP. Just make sure you understand that.

And I agree with you, the OP is ignorant.


"You didn't come into this life just to sit around on a dugout bench, did ya?" - Morris Buttermaker

Only three guys helped the Red Sox win the World Series. David Ortiz, Manny Ramirez and the guy they bought steroids off of.

Moneyball isn't about OBP, it's a business strategy which incorporates sabermetrics. Moneyball is about looking for skills that are undervalued in the market and trying to overcome the lack of funds by exploiting these undervalued skills. OBP happened to be undervalued in 2002, but years later, it no longer was, and other skills such as fielding were undervalued.

The Red Sox used sabermetrics, most teams do now, but they didn't have the limitations that the "Moneyball" Athletics did because they had the money to spend a lot.

The end note about Boston "embracing Moneyball" is just liberally using "Moneyball" for the sake of the movie.

Sabermetrics is empirical analysis of baseball, with everyone thinking of Bill James, though many will tell you that guys like Branch Rickey and Earl Weaver used it long before James. Moneyball is a strategy which uses sabermetrics, Beane (and Sandy Alderson before him) used it more than most GMs.

Boston embraced Sabermetrics, hiring Bill James, having Theo Epstein in the front office. But it sounds a lot better for the movie to say the Red Sox embraced the Moneyball philosophy than to say "Boston embraced deep empirical baseball analysis just like Billy Beane did".

I don't think it's particularly appreciated how it was for the RS to be in a Div. with the free-spending nyy and be lambasted day after day year after year for not being more successful.

Just consider the fact of how absurd it would be for the RS to be a financial wagon but spend roughly 30% of what their closest competitor is paying out. It just wouldn't be accepted that they would be consistent losers.

Kisskiss, Bangbang

Ortiz wasn't all that high priced at the time they picked him up from Minnesota, because he had trouble in those days hitting lefties. They got him because of his high OBP overall. At the time was like a good 5 spot hitter. His development into a true masher was due to his own genius as a hitter, not anything anybody could have really predicted.

Did I not love him, Cooch? MY OWN FLESH I DIDN'T LOVE BETTER!!! But he had to say 'Nooooooooo'

The idea is that it will get you more wins, if you evaluate players based on their ability to contribute to wins and diminish losses. The statistics that fans like to look at, RBIs, Win/Loss ratio for a pitcher, are not necessarily the most indicative of their true value. But when you get to the playoffs, Beane always says it's "a craphsoot." The truth as I see it, however, and I say this bitterly as a long-time A's fan, is that I want a winner at a crap shoot. Beane didn't pay enough attention to attitude. He signed people who had a bad attitude, because that made them "undervalued." And they brought the team down sometimes when it hurt most. His inability to pay attention to the human element cost us dearly, continues to cost us. This was only barely hinted at in the film. The film almost made out his impersonality as an asset. It's only an asset when you're looking at a whole season or a series of seasons, where Win/Loss for a team (as a ratio) becomes predictable. In the larger picture, Win/Loss for the team is no more important than Win/Loss for a pitcher. In the playoffs, it's a losing philosophy.

Did I not love him, Cooch? MY OWN FLESH I DIDN'T LOVE BETTER!!! But he had to say 'Nooooooooo'

Agree with the OP -- it was a lame attempt to try to connect moneyball with a WS ring.

Good response, pretty much what I was going to say. "Moneyball" only got its name b/c Oakland had none, thus had to maximize what money they did have in a new and most efficient way. There are definitely players with high OBP who also have high traditional stats like BA, or HR, or SLG, or extreme speed. But these obvious type players will also cost $20M/year. Oakland can't afford that but if they could, they'd target these players. Boston can afford it, so they do.