Love this movie!
But always trying to work out if Walt was a bad father or they were bad sons?
Like the sons very distant and at times selfish and cruel (ie showing up to their mothers funeral late, wanting walt to move into a retirement home, only calling Walt when they needed something)
But like Walt said himself "I was never really close with either of my boys"
Are his son's attitudes an effect of his parenting?
Wondered if anyone has any input, would love to hear some??
As the old saying goes, "There are no bad students, only bad teachers."
Walt was distant with his kids, but he was probably also working his azz off to provide for them. In the end, I'm sure he would have rather have gone back and worked less so he could spend more time with them.
The question I have then is, why didn't the mom step up and nurture the sons? She might not have had much luck getting Walt to change and become more a more caring person, but she should have been teaching the children better manners and respect for the man who gave them a roof over their head, a bed to sleep in and food on the table.
Same thing with the grand-kids. As old as they were, she should have had the time to influence them, even if it was through their fathers, so they grand-kids wouldn't have been such little sh!ts.
I'm sure she did to some extent. We don't know how Walt's wife was in the years leading up to her death, it could've been a long process. Something like that would be hard to bring grandkids to see, it'd put added stress on the son's relationships, and it'd make Walt pretty bitter that he had to care for her alone. Age is a funny thing, one of my grandmothers was peppy and very active pretty much right up until she died. The other is still alive, still witty and sweet, but she's lost her spring a good 20 years ago, and hasn't been mobile or very lively in ages.
shareThe last few years of her life could explain some of the grandchildren's attitudes, but not all. Most of their influence should have came from their parents, which is why I question why she let her sons grow up like they did.
Not that I expect them to be perfect, but you'd think that they would have put more effort into raising their own children as opposed to letting them bet sh!t stains.
As the old saying goes, "There are no bad students, only bad teachers."
I have. I have said that to quite a few teachers. They don't disagree because they understand that the "first teacher" is the parents. If the parents can't be bothered to teach their children right from wrong, the school teachers won't have much chance either.
shareA bit of both. Bad father and sons
shareIt's a bit of both.
I had a similarly distant relationship with my parents. Partly my fault, partly theirs, but these things just happen sometimes to some people.
But placing blame isn't the answer.
Never defend crap with 'It's just a movie'
http://www.youtube.com/user/BigGreenProds
I think it's a bit of both as well. Although, you would have thought maybe the sons has a decent relationship with their mother. At least enough respect to show up for her funeral on time, dress appropriately and not be laughing and joking at their mother's funeral.
It sure didn't show them walking in the door late to their father and grandfather's funeral. I loved the look on the granddaughte's face when she found out she wasn't getting the car!
That's always one of the things which bothered me - why didn't Walt's wife have more of an influence on her sons and grandchildren?
shareDefine bad father. He put food on the table, clothes on their back, a roof over their heads and as far as we know never abused them. A lot of guys has fathers just like Walt and not all were bad sons.
What role did the mother play. Maybe she spoiled them. Perhaps Walt was trying to hold them to high standards and instill certain values in them and maybe her actions were working against what he was trying to do
IMHO I think a lot of it is due the time period they grew up in. I think kids growing up then can easily get the idea from teachers or TV that they are entitled to something and hard work is beneath them
Walt had to fight in a war and he must have born during or just after the great depression. His father could have been in the army during WW2 so everything his father normally have done would been done by Walt at a early age
When the sons were growing up wouldn't be around the same time as Vietnam and maybe that played a factor in why the sons are they way they are
There was the Gulf War.
shareLike the poster above me pointed out, I think a big reason Walt's kids and grandkids turned out like that was more due to different time periods and generational gaps, which fits with one of movie's themes (disillusionment with change in a changing world).
Walt was a part of the "Greatest Generation" which lived through the Depression and fought in WWII and Korea. These experiences shaped the generation and made them appreciative of their lots in life with the post-WWII economic boom, as well as respectful of authority given their military experiences. Their lives were so good after being such hell that they were (and are, what's left of them) resistant to change from this way of living.
Walt's kids were Baby Boomers, a generation in which even the middle class was pretty well-off by today's standards. They lacked the struggle of having lived the Depression, and after their generational soul searching with the counter-culture and civil rights movements, they turned very conservative and materialistic in their middle age. More materialistic in the case of Walt's kids, but hey, maybe their mother spoiled them a little too much; they definitely didn't turn that way based on Walt.
And Walt's grandkids are that Generation Y/Z hybrid that was raised with technology, that can't tear themselves away from an electronic screen, and that probably doesn't know how to look people in the eye for more than two seconds. You know the kind: bad posture (from staring down, of course), fat from playing video games over outdoor playing and doesn't know how to change a lightbulb without an eHow article guiding them through it...
they turned very conservative and materialistic in their middle age.
they definitely didn't turn that way based on Walt.
Ok, for this to be true, you'd have to say liberals aren't materialistic. And yet, there are at least as many wealthy liberals as there are Conservatives. Gates, Buffet, Spielberg, Gore, Winfrey, Henely, etc.
Also, Conservatives wouldn't accept their children being little sh!ts like Walt's grand-kids were. That is part of their mindset, raising responsible, respectful children.
Exactly. Which meas that if they turned out Conservative, then Walt would have been liberal. Do you think that is the case here?
Of course they are. I didn’t mean to say conservatives were synonymous with materialism, just that the majority of Boomers turned out being both conservative and materialistic by the 1980s.
I'm not just stating my perception of it, I'm basing this on the tendency for people to become more conservative with age, including Boomers. The cliché of "back in my day (insert rose-tinted comparison of "today" with the glory days of their youth)" is a classic mindset of older people who idealize the time of their own youth and think things have only gone downhill since then.
The Boomers rebelled against the conservative nature of the previous generation, had their fun, then grew up and embraced the conservative resurgence of the Reagan era in the 1980s (I doubt it was the youth of America that led that charge), essentially becoming their parents with the added bonus of more materialism because they didn't struggle through the Depression.
And aren't you just stating your own perception concerning the number of materialistic, Baby-Boomer liberals by not backing yourself up with any credible reference (by the way, are you an offended conservative or an offended liberal? I'm guessing an offended conservative, but I could be wrong).
Here are two references. You can decide for yourself how credible they are.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/181325/baby-boomers-likely-identify-conservative.aspx
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mr-personality/201410/why-are-older-people-more-conservative
I'm basing this on the tendency for people to become more conservative with age,
I’m sure there are tons (and tons) of liberal boomers and/or materialistic boomers. But the Boomer generation is made up of millions (and millions) of members; taking your quote into consideration, I’m guessing the majority of this generation indeed turned conservative (at least relative to their youth) by middle age. Again, I don’t think the youth of America were the main voter demographic behind Ronald Reagan’s elections.
You’ve repeated something you said, about me not backing up my points with any “credible” reference, as if I failed to address this point the first time you made it, but I’ve already posted two links as sources/references. Meanwhile, you’ve failed to address my question about your references, so I’ll repeat myself now:
“And aren't you just stating your own perception concerning the number of materialistic, Baby-Boomer liberals by not backing yourself up with any credible reference?”
Hollywood (or “Hollyweird”, as you say) is not a credible reference, by the way, as they don’t represent the real people of the country, but is filled with sheltered “limousine liberal” types that, again, aren't indicative of the Boomer generation as a whole.
We can only make assumptions since the movie did not tell the back story of Walt's kids growing up. Keep in mind that I am 51 and my opinion reflects what I have seen growing up:
1. When I was a child it was the norm to have Grandparents over for Sunday Dinner and spend lots of time with cousins and family. We all lived relatively close in proximity. This rarely happens now ... only major holidays.
2. We tend to be "the ME" generation and I think the generation after is even more spoiled (due to our fault). I think we have a lot of people that feel entitled - such as the Grand Daughter that felt she should have received the car.
3. Many Dads growing up put food on the table and worked hard at their jobs and in their off time they took care of their homes; many of the Moms in the neighborhood didn't work so they were the ones to take us to movies, cart us around to sports, etc. (Dads were more around the weekend). You had a problem with your car; you go to Dad. You are not feeling good, need a hug; you tend to go to Mom.
Walt was clearly not the nurturing type but I would assume he would have attempted to teach his sons some trade skills. He was probably very hard on his kids making them feel inferior and that anything they did was probably not good enough which may have caused some resentment and the lack of desire to see him. No one wants to be around negative people. It may be this old resentment with their harsh comments to him now.
Walt was a good man. He wasn't some politically correct fool, but his sons, their wives and kids only seemed to be interested in what they could get from him. And the granddaughter playing on her text machine while her grandmother's funeral was going on was despicable. I was glad when Walt left his Gran Torino to Thao instead of his greedy family. And he proved he was a real man by standing up to those lowlife gangbangers....both the black yard apes who wanted to rape Sue and their worthless cousins who shot up the house.
shareWalt was really strict and a hardass! I guess the children didn't respect him and walt is a hard man to please. Way too stubborn to ask for help.
shareAs I said previously, where was the mom / grandma in all of this when their boys were growing up and then having children? She should have been nurturing the boys and getting them to understand that their dad was working hard to provide for them. At the same time, she should have been trying to take the rough edge off of Walt.
And the grandkids should have been a lot more respectful if mom/grandma did her job.
I'm not saying that Walt was right for being such a hard-azz. I'm just saying that mom should temper what happens and not let it become such a burden on either side.
I still say Thao was more of a son or grandson to Walt than his blood relatives. I'm glad he left the Gran Torino to him instead of his useless blood relatives.
share