MovieChat Forums > Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - Part 2 (2011) Discussion > snape and dumbledore questions

snape and dumbledore questions

posted 8 years ago by Finkle-is-Einhorn
6 replies | jump to latest

1.a line from Dumbledore always seemed odd to me, why does he say with apparent surprise to Snape, "Lily after all this time" to which Snape replies "always"

why would Dumbledore be surprised that after all this time Snape still loves Lilly, this is the whole reason Snape is doing what he is doing, the whole reason Dumbledore trusts Snape so why does DD seem shocked at this especially when Dumbldore knows more about love than most

2. when Dumbledore ask Snape to kill him to complete their plan Snape ask Dumbledore about the effect murdering him will have on his own soul(as murder apparently damages the soul) to which Dumbledore reassures Snape he will be ok because it wont be murder, but surely in all of Snapes years as a death eater he has murdered before, how could he not have. at one point he was a true death eater after all

3. in TDH when harry and Dumbledore are chatting in Limbo/kings cross harry reassure Dumbledore that he is a good person and says something along the lines of "You never killed if you could avoid it!”. this implies that Dumbledore has killed before in extreme circumstance but when did Dumbledore ever kill anyone.

[–] otter 8 years ago

1: Because sane people aren't still obsessed with their high school girlfriend when they're solidly middle-aged. Snape's devotion to Lily's memory has not only shaped his attitude towards the present conflict, it's kept him from finding any personal happiness.

2: Dumbledore was not a nice man, under the fluffy eccentricities he showed to the students. When Snape didn't want to kill him because that would have a tremendous personal cost, his response of "you've done worse" was not comforting.

3: I don't remember that Dumbledore killed anyone during the events of the HP series, but he'd been fighting Dark Wizards for a VERY long time. He must have killed people some time, and Harry may have heard tales that didn't make it into the books.

“Seventy-seven courses and a regicide, never a wedding like it!

[–] teatat 8 years ago

#2 Not necessarily - his job seems to have been more about information gathering. It's possible Voldemort had him keeping a low profile while others did the murdering.

[–] omarpowermotivation 7 years ago

1. The "all this time" line in the book was in reference to Snape caring about Harry all along. I don't know why they added the Lily part in the film.

2. Just because you're a death eater it doesn't mean you're a murderer.

3. Dumbledore says Harry is the better man because he was never tempted with power i.e. Dumbledore at his old age secretly still wanted to unit the hallows. I don't remember the "you never killed if you could avoid it" --if it was said it doesn't have to reflect who Dumbledore is as a person and things that he has done.

[–] teatat 7 years ago

"all this time" was in reference to Lily in the book:

“But this is touching, Severus,” said Dumbledore seriously. “Have you grown to care for the boy, after all?”

“For him?” shouted Snape. “Expecto Patronum!”

Then he produces the silver doe, Lily’s patronus. Having the same patronus as Lily shows Dumbledore that he still loves her. (Just like Tonk’s patronus changes to a wolf when she falls in love with Lupin.)

[–] omarpowermotivation 7 years ago

“Conjures an incarnation of the caster’s innermost positive feelings, such as joy or hope, known as a Patronus. A Patronus is conjured as a protector, and is a weapon rather than a predator of souls: Patronuses shield their conjurors from Dementors or Lethifolds, and can even drive them away.”

Snape creating the Patronus was to reveal his inner most positive feelings towards Harry when Dumbledore asked if you have grown to care for the boy. Instead of saying yes, he showed him. It was meant to be symbolic as he loved Harry. His love for Lily is not a "reveal".

[–] bsharporflat-50959 7 years ago

“But this is touching, Severus,” said Dumbledore seriously. “Have you grown to care for the boy, after all?”

“For him?” shouted Snape. “Expecto Patronum!”

Then he produces the silver doe, Lily’s patronus. Having the same patronus as Lily shows Dumbledore that he still loves her. (Just like Tonk’s patronus changes to a wolf when she falls in love with Lupin.)

I agree with this interpretation.

Snape creating the Patronus was to reveal his inner most positive feelings towards Harry when Dumbledore asked if you have grown to care for the boy. Instead of saying yes, he showed him.

I think this is right except for one thing. I think it should be:

Instead of saying no, he showed him.

I think the story gives us all the clues we need to understand Snape's true feelings. We do not see any secret "love" expressed by Snape toward Harry across the first six books/movies.

In the end we are made aware of Snape's love for Lily but before that we are made aware of Snape's pure and utter hate for James Potter. It is James Potter that Snape primarily sees in Harry, not Lily. Only Harry's eyes carry a bit of the Lily that Snape loved. Except for those small bits, Snape hated the rest of Harry. Harry was the slap-in-the-face proof of James Potter having sex with Lily. How could Snape possibly "love" that?

His love for Lily is not a "reveal".

It is. When was Snape's love for Lily revealed before Deathly Hallows? I don't think it was.

And remember, all those flashback memories in DH from the pensieve showing Snape's childhood love for Lily are something only Harry and the audience are privy to. Not Dumbledore.

I can see how Snape's doe petronus could be taken as a sign of love for Harry if the story were different and Snape had shown glimmers of affection for Harry here and there. But he does.

So instead I think Snape's doe is better taken as a symbol of both love for Lily and hate for Voldemort who killed her. Those things (plus a hate for James Potter) are what drives Snape the most in his life.