Why couldn't Harry tell anyone else about the Horcruxes? - Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - Part 2 (2011) Discussion

[–] Distantwords 8 years ago

Here is my interpretation, and nothing more than that.

Horcruxes were so evil, and so nasty, Dumbledore did not want them to ever be common knowledge, as evidenced by Hermione's speculation that Dumbledore probably emptied out the Library of all references to them once he became Headmaster. Sure, that's speculation, but since the author (JKR) never wrote otherwise, I feel we have to assume that is correct.

So Dumbledore did not want everyone to know what Horcruxes were. If people know they exist, they may seek out the knowledge to make some themselves. The best way to keep a secret is to make sure as few people know as possible, and make sure those people never tell anyone else.

Dumbledore never knew 'exactly' when he would die. He knew it would be within a year of his curse, but he never knew exactly when it would be. And the night it came, he was not thinking about his death or his plan with Snape about Draco; his mind was tunnel visioned on the hunt for the Horcrux.

He probably thought he'd have more time to train Harry more. He MAY have intended to give Harry extra information, about maybe how to approach others in his quest, IF he ended up needing extra help, had he (Dumbledore) had more time.

But that didn't work out for him.

But also, how do you really know who to trust? Dumbledore had seen many reasons not to trust people. He'd try to trust them, but he'd always be cautious. He bet on Harry because Harry was 'The Chosen One'. HE, Dumbledore, was the one to hear first hand the Prophesy. And when Voldermort singled out Harry, he knew that Harry was the one to back.

So he made sure as best he could that Harry was ready, and he knew Harry would need SOME help, so he chose Ron and Hermione because he knew those were the two that Harry would trust the most.

So bottom line, Dumbledore didn't want Harry to tell anyone about the Horcruxes because A) nobody should ever know about them, and B) he also didn't want it getting out that Dumbledore (and therefore Harry) knew Voldermort's secret (that was also a reason giving in HBP). Dumbledore also knew Harry would need help, and knew Ron and Hermione would be the best candidates for Harry to trust, and with any secret, you want to keep the number as low as possible with how many know it (the more that know, the more likely someone will be tricked or tortured into telling).

ALL of that being said, I still think they could have had Lupin along without giving him too much information.

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[–] Cursedchild13 8 years ago

You make good points, but as I said I wasn't saying a bunch of people should have known. I don't think the entire order should have known, that would be a terrible idea. But Harry telling one or two other people about the mission, like Lupin, can't have had any negative affect on it. I agree Dumbledore didn't know when he'd die exactly so he left a lot of stuff unsaid that Harry needed to know, but you'd think he'd have had a fall back plan knowing Harry would need help from more than Ron and Hermione. Which really is true because again a lot of what happens with the Horcruxes is pure luck.

It just seems relying on three barely overage teenagers with zero experience with what they were dealing with was a bad idea, no matter how much Harry was trusted. Adding in just one or two more order members that had a lot more experience and wisdom could have only helped them.

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[–] Distantwords 8 years ago

Yes, one or two more knowing would have been fine. But are these one or two more specific people that Dumbledore hand selected before he died? Or does he just tell Harry "You can tell one or two more people if you need to"?

Remember that Dumbledore trusted no one really, in full. He defended Snape to the Order because he knew something the Order did not. But he also did not trust Snape enough to tell Snape about Horcruxes...

Also think about this: this is a world of magic, so some rules don't always apply. But Dumbledore witnessed the Prophesy about defeating Voldermort. It basically said that "there is ONE person who stands a chance, and here is how you identify him/her".

Once Voldermort 'chose' Harry, Dumbledore knew who that 'one' was.

From there, with the 'one' shown, Harry would either do it or he wouldn't.

Dumbledore did what HE thought would serve the best chance, without trying to go too far outside of the 'prophesy'.

Harry was the 'one', and his best friends were Ron and Hermione. Not Lupin or even Sirius or himself (Dumbledore). Harry's best chances laid with himself and his best most trusted friends.

At that point, IMO, Dumbledore trusted in the 'Prophesy', and in Harry.

At least, that is one way to look at it IMO.

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[–] alexaw9 8 years ago

Secrets and lies, that's how we grew up, and Albus... he was a natural....

That's why.

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[–] teatat 8 years ago

In addition to what Distantwords said another possibility is that Dumbledore realizes most adults instinctively want to protect children/teens and it generally takes a while to get over that when they reach legal adult age. Even if they only told one person like Lupin, Dumbledore might not have felt that person could be trusted indefinitely not to decide it’s too dangerous, or Harry is in over his head, or to reason that Dumbledore must have died before giving Harry all the information he intended to and confide in one or two other people that they really trust and then that person convinces them that they really need the help of so-and-so, for Harry’s own good, ect. until a dangerous amount of people know, and then there would be people who want to take the job out of Harry’s hands and keep him safe ect.

As his peers Ron and Hermione wouldn’t have that same type of protective instinct, not that they don’t want to protect him but it’s different. Plus as much as someone like Lupin might be trustworthy based on his character, Ron and Hermione have proven time and again that they will stick with Harry and keep his secrets in increasingly dangerous situations.

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[–] bsharporflat-50959 8 years ago

In addition to what Distantwords said another possibility is that Dumbledore realizes most adults instinctively want to protect children/teens and it generally takes a while to get over that when they reach legal adult age. Even if they only told one person like Lupin, Dumbledore might not have felt that person could be trusted indefinitely not to decide it’s too dangerous, or Harry is in over his head

I find this explanation to be the most plausible. From a plot-wise perspective and from a story telling perspective.

If Harry had told Lupin, we would have questioned why Remus would allow three kids to pursue this ultimately dangerous quest on their own. He wouldn't. He (and likely others) would have taken over or at least gone with them. And then the story ceases to be the Harry Potter story.

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[–] Cursedchild13 8 years ago

At that point though all three were adults in the eyes of the wWizarding world, so there was no way anyone could stop them even if they wanted to. Even Mrs. Weasley couldn't do anything to stop them. She tried to keep them busy but that was a really weak tactic. Plus Lupin and Mr. Weasley knew they were going to do something for Dumbledore, and still didn't get in the way.

Most of the Order also trusted Dumbledore without question too, so if they knew Dumbledore gave this mission to Harry and he was going to do it no matter what, I don't think they'd question it.

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[–] teatat 8 years ago

Yes but like I said it generally people some time to adjust. When you've known and cared for someone since they were a child you don't usually think on their birthday, "OK they are an adult now" and treat them accordingly in all ways overnight. It's often a gradual change and the more dangerous the situation the more likely the older adult's protective instincts would kick in.

The order did trust Dumbledore but the issue is weather Dumbledore trusted them to continue to trust him indefinitely, when he's no longer around, even when it puts Harry in incredible danger and gives him a seemingly impossible task. With him not there it would be easy to rationalize and think that Harry misunderstood or that Dumbledore died before giving Harry complete information and therefore act to keep Harry safe and put all the resources of the order to work searching for Horcruxes. As much as Dumbledore trusts members of the order, there's only one person he trusts with the knowledge that Harry will have to sacrifice himself. While not quite as bad as that a mission that puts Harry in so much danger without much helpful information for him to accomplish it would be a close second.

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[–] teatat 8 years ago

ALL of that being said, I still think they could have had Lupin along without giving him too much information.

It could get tricky to have Lupin along without telling him much, having him witness the effect the locket has on everyone, trying to find one of the few things that will destroy it without saying what you are trying to destroy, ect. But, then, if he promised not to ask questions I think he would keep his word.

@Distantwords: I’m glad you are posting on this board again :o).

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[–] Cursedchild13 8 years ago

I am asking why couldn't someone like Lupin be told about the whole thing. Not just why he couldn't go with them.

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[–] teatat 8 years ago

Yes, I responded to that question above - but here I was responding Distantwords, I've edited my post to make that more clear.

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[–] Distantwords 8 years ago

Thank you teatat, it's good to see you too!

As for Lupin, he does have experience with keeping a secret. Of course, his 'furry little problem' could have complicated things; I doubt his potion would have been easy to get on the run, so I guess there is also that to think about.

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[–] A_Bob 8 years ago

Anyone that were actually with them I would imagine should be trusted with the secret of the horcruxes. There was no reason for Harry to imagine that Lupin could have accompanied them without knowing the secret. Now as Distantwords mentioned, turning into a werewolf once a month would have been a major problem.

As for Lupin knowing Voldy, he didn't. The two people who understood Voldy the most were the only two who learned about his past to understand how and why he thinks about things, Dumbledore and Harry. Their main issue beyond knowing what the horcruxes were was knowing where they could possibly have found them. Lupin would have been useless in knowing where they could be found or what they could be beyond what Harry may have told him.

I can see that Lupin may have been much more helpful in the Ministry break-in and possibly assured that they could have stayed at Grimmauld Place. Dumbledore chose Harry as the vessel of the secret for horcruxes because he himself was a horcrux. The more people who knew, the greater the opportunity others would have discovered the secret.

This is why Dumbledore didn't tell others certain aspects of his organization. He kept everyone out of the loop about he trusted Snape as much as he did, though that was in part due to Snape's request. For the same reason, he chose not to tell anyone else that he planned his death so that Snape would be the trigger man. He trusted certain people with certain jobs and information at all times to protect the integrity of the organization. After all, Voldy was a Legillimens who could have a lot of information on anyone who was captured.

Bob

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[–] Distantwords 8 years ago

Their main issue beyond knowing what the horcruxes were was knowing where they could possibly have found them. Lupin would have been useless in knowing where they could be found or what they could be beyond what Harry may have told him.

To be fair, the same could be said for Ron and Hermione. They were both just as useless in that regard as Lupin would have been. After all, Ron and Hermione dismissed Harry's notion that Hogwarts could be a hiding place for a Horcrux due to Tom Riddle's affection for the school.

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[–] Cursedchild13 8 years ago

Harry, Ron, and Hermione were all useless too though when it came to finding the Horcruxes. They only found two by pure chance. I mean if they never get captured and if Bellatrix never sees the sword, she never freaks out about breaking into her vault, and Harry never suspects it's in there. You could even argue Dumbledore would have never suspected it was there.

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[–] alexaw9 8 years ago

These are all very long and unnecessarily complicated reasons. Dumbledore learned to keep secrets and not to trust, as both he as a spirit and his brother both told Harry. I don't understand why we all need to further dissect Dumbledore's psyche. It's not like we're going to know all his exact worries and reasons. If he always naturally kept everything hidden, any 'reason' not to tell was more of an 'excuse'. It's his personality that keeps the Horcruxes secret.

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[–] Cursedchild13 8 years ago

I think it's an interesting discussion clearly. And I think him only allowing Harry and the other two to know was a very flawed plan because they only were able to find two by someone else's work and luck. If you don't like the discussion and think it's as simple as you said, don't read it.

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[–] teatat 8 years ago

I think it's one of the more interesting conversations we've had on this board lately.

As much as the Horcrux plan depended on luck I think the part about Snape being the only one who knew Harry was a Horcrux and was to tell him at the right time was even more risky.

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[–] A_Bob 8 years ago

Dumbledore did trust. He just chose which people he could trust with what information. For the horcruxes, he trusted Harry, and by extension, Hermione and Ron. Harry was the only person whose mind Voldy wasn't going to invade again. The others he felt had a better chance at confronting Voldy and having Voldy know what they know. If they knew about the horcruxes, Voldy would have hidden them much more.

Bob

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[–] ShinnickNeth 8 years ago

I'm asking why he couldn't tell anyone else specifically.

For several reasons:

-Harry didn't want to "broadcast" he knew about the Horcruxes. He didn't want Voldemort to find out he knew about them. He hoped to destroy all of them (or as many as he could) before Voldemort could do anything to stop him or to hide them in different locations. If Voldemort was to find out Harry knew about them, Voldemort would know where Harry would go. That would put Harry and his two friends in more danger.

- Harry didn't know who was a Death Eater and who was good. Having watched Snape "betray" Dumbledore, it would be hard for him to really trust anyone. He couldn't risk his mission by revealing details to others, who could end up betraying him. He only had one shot to destroy them.

- Dumbledore asked him not to. Although it may be a bit silly reason, Harry believed in Dumbledore. He figured Dumbledore had good reasons for asking such a thing of him. Harry also gave his word to Dumbledore that he wouldn't tell, and Harry is young man of his word.

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[–] Cursedchild13 8 years ago

Again, I'm not saying he broadcast it. I'm not saying he go around the entire order asking everyone to help with him with it. That would be a terrible idea. But that's not what I'm asking. I'm asking why couldn't a very select few other order members with more experience and wisdom be told in addition to Ron and Hermione. Like Lupin or Kingsley.

I'm sorry but your second point simply isn't true at all. That's honestly completely false. Harry always suspected Snape of being a Death Eater. Throughout the entire sixth book he's hell bent on convincing Dumbledore Snape is a traitor. He never trusted Snape at all. Almost everyone else he trusted 100%. There is not a chance he thought Lupin or Kingsley or Tonks or Moody could ever be Death Eaters. Not a chance. He even makes a whole speech after Moody dies that he doesn't think anyone would betray him and that he trusts all of them.

This is my main point. Why did Dumbledore tell him not to. What were his reasons for not allowing Harry to tell even just one other person besides Ron and Hermione about their mission. I don't think there's something single justifiable reason for someone like Lupin not to be told. Having someone like Lupin along could have made things a lot easier.

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[–] ShinnickNeth 8 years ago

I'm asking why couldn't a very select few other order members with more experience and wisdom be told in addition to Ron and Hermione. Like Lupin or Kingsley.

In the books at least (I can't remember with the movies), Harry didn't tell even Ron and Hermione. They figured it out on their own (that Dumbledore had a mission for Harry). At that point, Harry figured they already knew too much and it would be better to have them along for the journey.

I'm sorry but your second point simply isn't true at all. That's honestly completely false. Harry always suspected Snape of being a Death Eater. Throughout the entire sixth book he's hell bent on convincing Dumbledore Snape is a traitor. He never trusted Snape at all.

Are you purposefully being obtuse and contrary?! You asked for help, I'm trying to give it to you. I'm not wanting to really argue with you. You're really frustrating...

Also, I never said he did trust Snape.  Harry does spend the majority of all the books trying to dig up dirt on Snape. I never said otherwise. Harry did figure that Dumbledore knew what he was doing with Snape - in the end, he was right on that front. Dumbledore was the best at using people.

This is my main point. Why did Dumbledore tell him not to. What were his reasons for not allowing Harry to tell even just one other person besides Ron and Hermione about their mission. I don't think there's something single justifiable reason for someone like Lupin not to be told. Having someone like Lupin along could have made things a lot easier.

As the reader, yeah it's obvious characters like Lupin, Hagrid, McGonagall, etc are good people who could have helped Harry. Dumbledore didn't have the books to read. He had to deduce what he could of the situation and try to lead Harry down the right path.

If you think of everything Dumbledore was going through the last 18 months of his life, you realize he simply didn't have enough time to plan everything. He had been given a death sentence, the stress of the Malfoy boy's life on his mind, the rising power of Voldemort, trying to decipher Voldemort's past and find the Horcruxes, the interference of the Ministry at Hogwarts, Harry Potter continuously getting into trouble/danger at the school, trying to keep Snape reluctantly involved, trying to establish clues for Harry/Ron/Hermonie to find in their gifts he left them, etc.

That would be a lot for anyone to deal with. Dumbledore wasn't perfect either. He made mistakes like any other man but he did his best in the time he had. The less people who knew, the better. Someone knowing about the Horcruxes endangers that person and puts the whole secret mission in jeopardy.

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[–] Distantwords 8 years ago

In the books at least (I can't remember with the movies), Harry didn't tell even Ron and Hermione. They figured it out on their own (that Dumbledore had a mission for Harry). At that point, Harry figured they already knew too much and it would be better to have them along for the journey.

That's not true at all actually. Harry was having his private lessons with Dumbledore in HBP. On page 215, 'The House Of Gaunt', their lesson ends with Harry asking Dumbledore:

"Sir, am I allowed to tell Ron and Hermione everything you've told me?"

And Dumbledore responds with:

Yes, I think Mr. Weasley and Miss Granger have proved themselves trustworthy."

From that point on, Harry relayed all info from his lessons to Ron and Hermione, even getting them to help figure out what a Horcrux even was.

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[–] ShinnickNeth 8 years ago

Oh okay. I thought Harry tried to sneak off before Bill's wedding and Ron/Hermonie stopped him. I'm wrong then.

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[–] A_Bob 8 years ago

In the book, Harry dud try to leave right after the Seven Potters chaseas he felt he was putting others in danger but they all convinced him to stay since everything they did that night was to keep him safe and get him safely to the Weasley house.

Later, he tried to convince Ron and Hermione that they needn't come with him but they both stopped him before be could even bring up the subject, convincing him that they were ready and prepared to go with him. In fact, Hermione got the horcrux book before leaving Hogwarts the preceding school year.

Bob

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[–] Cursedchild13 8 years ago

Are you purposefully being obtuse and contrary?! You asked for help, I'm trying to give it to you. I'm not wanting to really argue with you. You're really frustrating...

I'm being obtuse and frustrating by telling you were wrong? How exactly? You were wrong. It's wrong to say Harry didn't trust other order members. That's simply not true. He trusted everyone in the order after the sixth book. He says so himself. So saying after Snape's betrayal that he wouldn't trust them as much is wrong. Not a big deal. I didn't insult you or mock you. I pointed out that wasn't true. You are the one making it into a big deal now.

Also, I never said he did trust Snape. Harry does spend the majority of all the books trying to dig up dirt on Snape. I never said otherwise. Harry did figure that Dumbledore knew what he was doing with Snape - in the end, he was right on that front. Dumbledore was the best at using people.

You brought up Snape. YOU said his betrayal led Harry to not completely trust the other order members. I'm saying the situations are 100% different. Snape's betrayal had zero effect on Harry's trust of the other order members because he never trusted Snape to begin with. If Lupin or Kingsley killed Dumbledore, you'd have a point. Because he trusted them completely and then was betrayed. So then he would be untrusting of other members. But because it was Snape, someone Harry always thought was a traitor and always hated, it had no effect on his view of anyone else.

That would be a lot for anyone to deal with. Dumbledore wasn't perfect either. He made mistakes like any other man but he did his best in the time he had. The less people who knew, the better. Someone knowing about the Horcruxes endangers that person and puts the whole secret mission in jeopardy.

Okay, that answers my question then. It was a bad idea for Dumbledore not to let Harry tell anyone else and ask someone else for help. I was looking to see if there was a good reason for it, because I view it as a flaw and a mistake. So it looks like there wasn't a good reason and Dumbledore was wrong not to let Harry tell someone like Lupin or Kingsley.

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[–] ShinnickNeth 8 years ago

It's obnoxious to ask people their opinions about something and then argue with them. It was my opinion based on what I had ascertained from reading the book. I wasn't presenting it to you to have to break apart and argue with me. I was trying to help you. Do you understand now?

He says so himself. So saying after Snape's betrayal that he wouldn't trust them as much is wrong.

That's not what I was saying. I was talking about it from Harry's perspective. There's no question that Harry respected/admired Dumbledore throughout the series. He respected his opinion. If Dumbledore made a decision, Harry figured it was the best decision anyone could make. However, Dumbledore chose to 100% trust someone who Harry always questioned to be evil. That decision got Dumbledore murdered/betrayed by that said person. Now this turns out to be wrong (as Snape was always Dumbledore's man) but Harry doesn't know that at the start of the last book.

So if the person Harry respected the most (Dumbledore) turned out to be capable of making horrible decisions that got himself killed, it would make him, Harry, question his own decisions too. Does that make sense? Because "the all wise", Albus Dumbledore, blindly trusted in a man who eventually betrayed him.

I never said Harry had trust in Snape. I don't know where you got that. He was disillusioned by the reality of Dumbledore, which would play into who he trusts. That's what I was saying.

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[–] Cursedchild13 8 years ago

You are being so oversensitive about this and you are the one making this into an argument. What you said was contradicted directly from the book. I pointed that out because it isn't a reason for Harry not to tell anyone else. He trusted everyone in the order. He had 100% trust in Lupin, Moody, Kingsley, Tonks, and everyone else.

That's not what I was saying. I was talking about it from Harry's perspective. There's no question that Harry respected/admired Dumbledore throughout the series. He respected his opinion. If Dumbledore made a decision, Harry figured it was the best decision anyone could make. However, Dumbledore chose to 100% trust someone who Harry always questioned to be evil. That decision got Dumbledore murdered/betrayed by that said person. Now this turns out to be wrong (as Snape was always Dumbledore's man) but Harry doesn't know that at the start of the last book.

So if the person Harry respected the most (Dumbledore) turned out to be capable of making horrible decisions that got himself killed, it would make him, Harry, question his own decisions too. Does that make sense? Because "the all wise", Albus Dumbledore, blindly trusted in a man who eventually betrayed him.

I never said Harry had trust in Snape. I don't know where you got that. He was disillusioned by the reality of Dumbledore, which would play into who he trusts. That's what I was saying.

But that isn't what happened. Harry respects and admires Dumbledore, sure. But he thought Dumbledore was completely wrong to trust Snape. He never accepted Dumbledore's trust of Snape. He constantly criticizes Dumbledore for it and gets pissed when Dumbledore continues to trust Snape. I mean he even had Ron and Hermione watch Snape when they went after the Horcrux because he thought Dumbledore was wrong.

So Snape's "betrayal" has no effect on Harry's trust in anyone else because Snape's betrayal proved Harry to be right. That Snape was a traitor and Dumbledore was foolish to trust him when there was so much evidence not to.

That isn't the case for a single order member. Harry has no reason not to trust Lupin or Moody or Kingsley. I mean he actually was going to let Lupin come with them on the hunt without telling him specifics until he found out Lupin was ditching his wife and kid. If Tonks isn't pregnant, Lupin goes with the three of them. Why would that happen if Harry's faith in trusting people had been damaged by what Snape did? It doesn't make any sense.

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[–] ShinnickNeth 8 years ago

You are being so oversensitive about this and you are the one making this into an argument.

You were the one to start arguing with me, my dear. Originally, I was simply answering your question.

What you said was contradicted directly from the book. I pointed that out because it isn't a reason for Harry not to tell anyone else. He trusted everyone in the order. He had 100% trust in Lupin, Moody, Kingsley, Tonks, and everyone else.

Yet, he didn't tell them. Now did he? What does that tell you? If you have 100% in someone, you tell them everything. He didn't. They couldn't be trusted, it would put them in danger, and it would jeopardize what Harry needed to do. Dumbledore had told him all that. Harry promised he wouldn't tell, so he didn't.

Why is that not enough for you? That's why I said you were being obtuse earlier.

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[–] Cursedchild13 8 years ago

I pointed out the book contradicted you, so you saying Harry didn't trust anyone else was wrong. How is that arguing? You're really being an immature baby right now, getting so bent out of shape and throwing a fit over someone correcting something you said that was incorrect.

Yet, he didn't tell them. Now did he? What does that tell you? If you have 100% in someone, you tell them everything. He didn't. They couldn't be trusted, it would put them in danger, and it would jeopardize what Harry needed to do. Dumbledore had told him all that. Harry promised he wouldn't tell, so he didn't.

Now you're straight lying. Dumbledore never said anyone else couldn't be trusted, never said it would put the order members in danger. Why are you making things up? Do you really need to resort to lies to try and make a point? Though I guess it's possible you're just incorrect again by mistake, since you've already proven you don't remember the books very well by having several corrections pointed out to you.

Harry himself said he trusted all of them. To the point where Lupin was annoyed at him. Why do you ignore that? You could have just admitted, "Actually going by what happens in the books, Snape's betrayal really didn't have an effect on Harry's trust of other order members, so that was incorrect". No big deal, everyone makes a little mistake sometimes. Instead you blew up over being proven something you said wasn't right and threw a tantrum over it.

He didn't tell anyone because Dumbledore told him not to, which is why I don't blame Harry. I blame Dumbledore for giving that order in the first place because there was no logical reason for it. That was foolish on Dumbledore's part since Harry only found several of the Horcruxes through luck and chance.

It isn't healthy to get upset so easily over little mistakes like this. You really should calm down and not get angry over nothing.

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[–] ShinnickNeth 8 years ago

I pointed out the book contradicted you, so you saying Harry didn't trust anyone else was wrong.

Why do you exaggerate everything I say? Your sense of flourish would impress Rita Skeeter... I never said Harry didn't trust anyone. He clearly allowed Hermonie and Ron to go with him on his mission. If he didn't trust anyone, they wouldn't have been involved. He just couldn't tell any of the characters you listed in your past postings because he promised Dumbledore he wouldn't tell.

If you don't believe me, read the moment in the book again where Harry returns to Hogwarts and interacts with his fellow classmates again. Neville asks to be told what is going on. He wants to help. Harry says he can't tell them. He promised Dumbledore he wouldn't.

Or you can read the moment with Lupin and Harry again. Lupin asks to be told what Harry plans to do. Harry tells him he can't tell him. He promised Dumbledore he wouldn't tell.

It isn't a slight against Lupin. It isn't a slight against Neville. He was following Dumbledore's orders. Dumbledore DIDN'T trust even Harry. Here is proof right from the book:

Dumbledore: “Can you forgive me?” he said. “Can you forgive me for not trusting you? For not telling you? Harry, I only feared that you would fail as I had failed. I only dreaded that you would make my mistakes. I crave your pardon, Harry. I have known, for some time now, that you are the better man.”

Harry was following that man's instructions...

You're really being an immature baby right now, getting so bent out of shape and throwing a fit over someone correcting something you said that was incorrect.

No, I can admit when I'm wrong. ^ See one of my responses above to a different poster as an example.

What I don't do is suffer fools gladly. In the future, don't asks for people's opinion if you don't really want it. There's no such thing as a "wrong interpretation." That's the point of stories. That's the fun part of stories. That's why English Literature students have to write essays talking about what they think a door in a story represents, what a character means, etc. There are no wrong answers as long as you back them up.

I backed up why I think the way I do but you overlooked them to make my posting about, "He thinks Harry doesn't trust anyone. He thinks Harry hates Lupin and all the Order. He thinks Harry trusted Snape. Etc." I have restated my point in as many different ways possible to try to help you understand where I'm coming from but you misinterpret my words every time.

Harry himself said he trusted all of them. To the point where Lupin was annoyed at him. Why do you ignore that?

I don't.  Again, he promised Dumbledore he would go about his mission a certain way. The plan did not involve Lupin.

You could have just admitted, "Actually going by what happens in the books, Snape's betrayal really didn't have an effect on Harry's trust of other order members, so that was incorrect"

Again, my point wasn't about Snape's betrayal. It was about the failure and death of Albus Dumbledore. Harry thought of Dumbledore as the greatest wizard he had known. Then he was dead. That impacted Harry.

Instead you blew up over being proven something you said wasn't right and threw a tantrum over it.

Tantrum? No...but I am flabbergasted by your cluelessness of my point. Heres a hint: it had nothing to do with Snape. I clarified it several times and you still don't get it. It's becoming comical. 

It isn't healthy to get upset so easily over little mistakes like this. You really should calm down and not get angry over nothing.

There you go exaggerating things again. Not anger. Annoyance with you? Absolutely.

Why am I annoyed with you? Because I never actually disagreed with you on really anything. What you have done is misinterpret what I've said every time so that I waste my time trying to make you understand where I'm coming from. That's why I am annoyed with you.

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[–] Cursedchild13 8 years ago

- Harry didn't know who was a Death Eater and who was good. Having watched Snape "betray" Dumbledore, it would be hard for him to really trust anyone. He couldn't risk his mission by revealing details to others, who could end up betraying him. He only had one shot to destroy them.

Your exact words. The exact thing you said in your first post. Directly mentioned Snape betraying Dumbledore as a reason for him to be unwilling to trust anyone. You even straight up say he didn't know who could be a Death Eater and that if he told anyone else in the Order they might betray him.

So the problem is you don't read anything carefully enough. You don't read the books carefully. You don't even read your own posts carefully. Which is why you make constant errors and mistakes. And now you got caught and you're desperately trying to back track.

You blatantly said Harry didn't tell anyone else because he didn't know who he could trust because of seeing Snape betray Dumbledore. Your words. You were wrong. You could have simply accepted that and avoided this little fit of yours. You didn't. For reasons I don't get because it's just a mistake. Again, no use getting so upset over it.

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[–] ShinnickNeth 8 years ago

Yes, that's true. Those are my exact words. I realized that I had not explained myself well enough (my own fault). That is why when you addressed that point later on in our postings back and forth with each other, I elaborated on it with these exact words too:

That's not what I was saying. I was talking about it from Harry's perspective. There's no question that Harry respected/admired Dumbledore throughout the series. He respected his opinion. If Dumbledore made a decision, Harry figured it was the best decision anyone could make. However, Dumbledore chose to 100% trust someone who Harry always questioned to be evil. That decision got Dumbledore murdered/betrayed by that said person. Now this turns out to be wrong (as Snape was always Dumbledore's man) but Harry doesn't know that at the start of the last book.

So if the person Harry respected the most (Dumbledore) turned out to be capable of making horrible decisions that got himself killed, it would make him, Harry, question his own decisions too. Does that make sense? Because "the all wise", Albus Dumbledore, blindly trusted in a man who eventually betrayed him

Dumbledore's death impacted Harry (and everyone else at Hogwarts). Snape was only the catalyst in Dumbledore's death and that is why I mentioned him in what you pasted to me.

In life, Dumbledore also impacted Harry. He didn't trust people, and as result, he made Harry promise to go about getting rid of Horcruxes without telling people.

So the problem is you don't read anything carefully enough. You don't read the books carefully. You don't even read your own posts carefully. Which is why you make constant errors and mistakes. And now you got caught and you're desperately trying to back track.

Nope. Trying to help you understand once again...

The real problem is that you're accusatory, antagonistic, and argumentative when I've already expressed to you that I never really disagreed with you to begin with. However, you're too busy trying to "get me" and be right all the time to realize it. You're a sad person.

You blatantly said Harry didn't tell anyone else because he didn't know who he could trust because of seeing Snape betray Dumbledore. Your words.

Yup. I did. I stand by that too. Dumbledore was a paranoid person. He was suspicious of others. He caused Harry to be that way long after he had died by how he instructed him.

You could have simply accepted that and avoided this little fit of yours. You didn't.

You're very melodramatic. You keep describing me as having fits and being angry yet I have been very patient with you for the most part - even going as far to reiterate my points in different ways so you can understand.

Believe it or not, you're very bias towards me. We'll see what other impartial third-parties in this forum have to say about how we've conducted ourselves here today.

This all began because I was trying to help answer your question. Now I can't believe I tried to help you. That was my mistake. I regret it immensely.

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[–] metsfan40 8 years ago

Jesus Christ you two are pathetic. What a bunch of little brats. You're both at fault.

Shinnick, you escalated this little tiff by immediately getting defensive and hostile from his first reply to you when he correctly said you were wrong by saying he just wanted an argument, he was frustrating, and he was obtuse. All from one damn post. Your comment about Harry's trust issues were idiotic and you admitted yourself you needed to clarify because they made no sense. So what the hell are you crying about? You keep putting on this innocent victim act, "I was just trying to help you and YOU argued with me". BS. If you thought his first post was arguing to the point where you threw insults and started an argument you need to grow a thicker skin. Point the blame at yourself just as much as you are at him.

Cursed, you kept this crap going by continuing this stupid argument purposely when it was completely unnecessary. You pointed out he was wrong, so why the hell do you need to harp on about it? Lean to walk away instead of engaging like a stupid little kid. At this point you're trolling by just constantly telling him he's wrong repeatedly.

All settled now, kids? Shinnick, you started this and it's your fault there was argument in the first place, Cursed you kept it going and it's your fault for refusing to just let it go. Now grow the hell up and quit fighting like a couple of stupid little kids over a children's series.

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[–] teatat 8 years ago

But isn't the question why Dumbledore asked him not to rather than why Harry obeyed?

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[–] ShinnickNeth 8 years ago

Yes, I think so...the OP has spent the majority of the time trying to argue with me on every little thing, that the point of the thread is moving away from its original point.

Dumbledore was a secretive person. He only told people what he absolutely had to divulge in, and he kept everything else to himself. His brother, Aberforth, described Albus that way. Albus used people. He didn't trust them.

Dumbledore kept many things about Harry's family from him. He kept the fact that Harry would have to die from Snape. He kept his master plan from any of his closest Hogwarts teachers and friends like McGonagall. As I posted in my last thread, Albus didn't even trust Harry Potter.

Dumbledore: “Can you forgive me?” he said. “Can you forgive me for not trusting you? For not telling you? Harry, I only feared that you would fail as I had failed. I only dreaded that you would make my mistakes. I crave your pardon, Harry. I have known, for some time now, that you are the better man.”

For someone so secretive, it shouldn't be a surprise he didn't want Harry to tell people.

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[–] Cursedchild13 8 years ago

Because you mentioned a reason for Harry not to tell anyone else that was 100% wrong. If you don't want to be called out on mistakes, you probably shouldn't be posting.

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[–] ShinnickNeth 8 years ago

Because you mentioned a reason for Harry not to tell anyone else that was 100% wrong. If you don't want to be called out on mistakes, you probably shouldn't be posting.

Stop. Enough. Unless you're going to add an original thought of your own to the discussion (instead of cutting down people who actually do add something constructive to the discussion), then feel free to withhold your opinion.

And you accuse me of being the immature child...

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] A_Bob 8 years ago

"Dumbledore was a secretive person. He only told people what he absolutely had to divulge in, and he kept everything else to himself. His brother, Aberforth, described Albus that way. Albus used people. He didn't trust them."

The thing is that Dumbledore did trust people. He just knew what to entrust them with. Dumbledore knew who he could trust with what information, usually for very good reasons. Instead of saying he was a secretive person, it would be better to say he was a compartmentalized person. His mind was compartmentalized and he brought that into his life, telling only certain people specific information.

Where it came to horcruxes, he had to keep that a secret. As I mentioned, I found no good reason why Harry would have imagined he would have to keep the information from Lupin had he let him come with them. This was not what Dumbledore's intent regarding making sure only Hermione and Ron know and they don't tell anyone else. He presumed they would accompany Harry so of course they would get to know.

As for the quote above about Dumbledore not trusting Harry, in this case, he was right not to tell Harry. That was from Limbo and referred to not telling Harry about the hallows if I remember correctly. As soon as Harry realized the hallows were real, Harry acted exactly as Dumbledore feared he would act. The hallows basically became an obsession for Harry and he had emotionally given up on the horcrux hunt. Harry was the better man only because of a tragic result of his carelessness.

Bob

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] Finkle-is-Einhorn 7 years ago

if harry had told lupin or kingsley and they somehow managed to get captured and their minds were probed or they were forced to drink veritaserum they may reveal this information directly or indirectly to voldemort. Dumbledore just didn't want to take that risk as well as the fact you never fully know who you can trust.

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[–] Bernnard_Black 7 years ago

I always got the sense that it was down to two things.

First, as Aberforth pointed out, Albus was all about secrets and lies. He may have had reason, but he played things a little to close to the chest at times.

Second, Harry is flawed and makes mistakes. Not telling others was his mistake. This is pointed out to him in the book near the end, when Neville basically tells him that he needs to trust them more, and that he isn't doing this alone. Harry does relent to a point by telling them what he's looking for and asking them to kill the snake; he just doesn't tell them exactly why.

Lastly, Harry hates asking others to help him because he worries they'll be hurt or killed if they do. I mean, he even tried to leave Ron and Hermione behind. So it's in his nature not to tell others what he's doing because he wants to protect them. Given what happened to damn near everyone who ever DID help him, I don't blame him.

Whores will have their trinkets.

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