Red John

You're correct, the topic has been covered many times, but I'm always willing to discuss "The Mentalist".

After the reveal episode aired, many on this message board referred to it simply as "The Debacle". Merriam-Webster defines "debacle" as 'a great disaster' or 'complete failure'. Take your pick; the reveal episode was either and both.

Mind you, prior to the reveal, there was no more enthusiastic lover of the show than I. I watched most episodes AT LEAST twice on the night of original air and usually once again prior to the subsequent week's episode. So it's not as if I am venting as a "pure hater". I LOVED the show. But the reveal episode changed everything for me. I will probably never watch another episode, nor will I ever watch any other Bruno Heller series in the future (yes, Gotham, I'm talking about you).

Further, I watched the show BECAUSE of the Red John arc. The Red John storyline is what drew me into the show, and it is what kept me watching week after week. It is for this reason "The Debacle" was such a game-changer for me and others of my ilk. I understand the opinion of those who watched each week for the 'procedural' aspect of the show (i.e., the 'case-of-the-week', as some on this board have called the non-Red John episodes). I understand they may have simply treated the reveal episode as 'just another episode' or 'something that had to be done to get on with the re-boot of the series'. Their opinion is "Meh. So what if the clues didn't match up? So what if we never hear about Red John ever again? So what if there were unanswered questions? Meh. Let's move on to his career in Texas with the FBI."

Again, I understand that.

However, those of us who staked their claims on the Red John arc were severely damaged by the incredibly bad reveal episode. Where do I begin?

a. You (and others) have said it felt rushed. My comeback to that has always been: Regardless of what the actual truth may be about CBS execs ordering Bruno Heller to wrap it up and re-boot, he still had the first eight episodes to finish the story. 8 COMPLETE HOURS!! It was a much, much longer time than the show had devoted to the Red John arc in the previous five seasons combined!

b. Unanswered questions. I have posted lists of questions Jane could have asked Red John in the chapel scene after Red John says, "You probably have a lot of questions for me, huh?" I could re-post it, but suffice it to say there were LOADS of uncovered issues they failed to wrap up in "The Debacle" or any of the follow-up episodes.

c. Red John being so "regular". I know Bruno explained it away by saying most serial killers, once discovered and captured, are quite bland and boring people. However, Red John was different. This guy was always two or three steps ahead of his pursuers... and this was over a 25 year period. He wouldn't even leave a single clue! Now, all of a sudden, he's going to reveal his entire plan like a bad guy in a Batman television episode? He's going to get within arms reach of the one man who dedicated every fiber of his soul to seeking revenge against him? He's going to enter the church with no getaway vehicle? His only backup plan is a small woman yielding a small knife?

Side note: It's a very bad thing when a "fake" Red John in Season 3 is tremendously more interesting, compelling, and dynamic than the real Red John revealed 2½ years later.

d. Revelations by the show's creator: Bruno Heller admitted choosing the identity of Red John "a year or so" prior to the reveal. There is persuasive evidence indicating the choice was probably made much more recently than that. But even if we assume Heller was telling the truth, it's no wonder the Red John clues didn't always match the ending... the writers were writing the first 5 seasons with either someone different in mind to play the role... or with no one in particular in mind to play the role... or with three or four different possibilities in mind to play the role. Take your pick. Any would be devastating.

I'll wrap up for now, as this has already gone on far too long. I will leave you with this: Although you stated you weren't overly impressed, I did like the manner in which Jane killed Red John. I thought it was true to Jane's series-long promise(s), it offered a one-on-one confrontation, and Jane was able to get what he wanted to get from Red John -- an 'admission' of guilt and a begging for mercy, all the while squeezing the literal life out of his long-time nemesis. Now, did the episode have to include the seemingly endless, extended chase scene prior to the confrontation? Certainly not! But the actual confrontation was satisfying to me.

'
Hey Apenthe . 

(and get to you in minute my errr, ty)


Yep, LOTTA Story and Stuff in all that Red John Stuff . 

Ars Poetical as Ancient Tale from Hellenic Republic . 

(wink ... )

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Now ... You 'Head' You

(insert 'bro-hug' here ;-)


Thanks for your chime-in, good read, tyvm

Some excellent nails, in time hang some hats

( ... wink)

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[deleted]

I think Xander Berkeley is an extremely fine actor and was totally on board with MacAllister being Red John when they focused on him in the wedding episode of season 6. I could even say his lackluster appearance back in season 1 was all an act.

Ideally, however, I thought that the best Red John suspect was Ray Haffner. Visualize connection. Was part of both FBI and CBI. Experience in wiretapping and surveillance. Was in two episodes prior to season six. We saw Jane shake hands with him. He totally made sense to me. Some might say Haffner wasn't charismatic enough, but I could totally see RJ downplay that part of him to not seem suspicious around Jane, Lisbon, and the rest of the CBI team.

I also thought it would have been an interesting twist if immediately after Patrick Jane is found not guilty from killing the fake Red John and he tells Lisbon that Carter wasn't Red John, Patrick Jane, having no idea, meets the actual Red John and actually works with him. That would have been awesome.

My biggest problem with the Red John storyline, however, wasn't so much the reveal or who they decided it was going to be (at the very last minute). Rather, it was how drastically they changed the character of Red John.

I was a huge fan of the RJ storyline until about season 6, episode 4. I was totally on board with Red John being a highly-skilled, extremely brilliant, charismatic, cult-like individual who was able to get a fairly small number of people (around 15 or 20 or so) so enamored with him that they were willing to die and kill for him. I could totally accept him as being so smart that he was able to hack into law enforcement database and stay ahead of Patrick Jane and the rest of law enforcement. Completely realistic? Not really. But in the TV world of Patrick Jane? Sure.

And then all of a sudden, they completely turned the script on me with the whole Blake Association/ huge secret law enforcement conspiracy, matching tattoos, secret code word. I was seriously all...WTF? I mean was he a cult-like figure that had such deep personal connection with his followers that they were willing to do ANYTHING for him, or was he the secret head of a criminal organization and nobody knew who he was and only did anything due to blackmail? And can you imagine Red John branding himself in the same fashion as his followers?

Anyway, based on how they portrayed Red John for the first five (and some in season 6) seasons, the turn they made starting in season 6, episode 4 made absolutely no sense to me. And then it just went down hill from there.