MovieChat Forums > The Lincoln Lawyer (2011) Discussion > what happened to rouleteSPOILERS?

what happened to rouleteSPOILERS?


So, MAJOR SPOILERS Roulete was beat up and then what? They got his parking ticket in front of the apartment, and then his mom did all the killing? Who is going to prison?

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Roulet's mom attempted to kill Haller with the same gun that will prove to have killed his friend and PI, Frank Levin. BUT, Louis stole the gun and gave it to his mother with the express purpose of killing Frank, so he's a co-conspirator and by US law as guilty of the crime as his mother. He's going to jail, and will no doubt be convicted of 1st degree murder even if they can't get him for the earlier murder of the woman Jesus Martinez was wrongfully in jail for killing.

"I'd never ask you to trust me. It's the cry of a guilty soul."

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Thanks aguiltysoul, but i wish it was clear in the movie that he went to prison for sure.
They tried to relieve our souls by not telling us that martinez contracted HIV in prison, but the end felt kind of loose.

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Given Roulet's complicity in Frank's murder and the evidence we know has been put "on the D.A.'s desk," there's really no doubt in the movie that he's going down, probably to the death penalty.


"The value of an idea has nothing to do with the honesty of the man expressing it."--Oscar Wilde

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Yeah? Tell that parking ticket problem to David Berkowitz, I'm sure he would disagree with you.

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What do you mean?

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Good point, Son of Sam was caught because of a parking ticket...but the ticket has to lead to other evidence. Anyway, in the book Haller says that in the end the police link Roulet to an even earlier murder once they start investigating him. I think a murderer can certainly get away with their crime if it is random, i.e. there's no personal link and no reason to tag the murderer. Getting the parking ticket connection turned the eye of the law onto Roulet for whatever they will find, like him being at still another crime scene and using the same knife to kill his victim.

I just needed to reread the book.


"I'd never ask you to trust me. It's the cry of a guilty soul."

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I thought it was pretty obvious myself. They are both going to prison. Roulete is going to prison for the murder, assault and attempted rape. The scene when he gets out of the hospital explains it. He keeps saying he got martinez free, which implies martinez will finally admit that Roulete was the other guy involved in his case. This will reassure the fact that Roulete was the attacker in both of those cases, especially bc they were done the same way. The parking ticket just further proves he was involved in the murder, and attempted to recreate the murder again. He might even get accessory to attempted murder bc he stole the gun. Matthew had him beat up, and specifically says to only hospitalize him, so that he knows that his family is safe for the time being, until the rest of the movie comes to light in the judicial system. His mother is also going to jail, bc not only did she shoot matthew, she had the gun that was used to kill the PI. Just before she shoots matthew, she admits to being the one that killed him. So she will also go to jail for murder and attempted murder.

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Hey folks,

I think Doyel24 missed on one point where he says, "Roulete is going to prison for the murder, assault and attempted rape." If I recall correctly, all of the charges for which Louis Roulet was on trial were dismissed with prejudice after the defense lawyer, Mick Haller, ripped the prosecution's case apart via what was essentially false evidence (testimony) he manufactured and orchestrated. When criminal charges are dismissed "with prejudice," that means the defendant can never be recharged for those particular crimes under double jeopardy protection.

Essentially, what Mick Haller did was to get Roulet permanently cleared of the assault and rape charges for which Haller was paid some really big bucks up front from Roulet's wealthy family. At the same time, Haller set the stage to have Roulet charged with the murder of a girl some years earlier where one of Haller's former client (Jesus Martinez) was persuaded by Haller to plead guilty to a reduced charge to avoid receiving the death penalty.

Roulet was actually guilty of the earlier murder as well as the current assault and rape charges. By getting Roulet freed of the current assault and rape charge and having him charged with the earlier murder, Haller was able to get his former client, Jesus Martinez, freed of his conviction and released from prison. Haller's actions (along with a big meltdown by Roulet's mother) also resulted in having Roulet's mother discovered as the actual murderer of Haller's investigator. At that point, it was possible to show that Roulet stole Haller's target pistol and had his mother kill the investigator.

Thus, Roulet would likely be found guilty of the assault, rape, and murder of the girl years earlier as well as murder of Haller's investigator even though it was his mother who did the actual shooting. Also, the innocent Jesus Martinez was cleard of the girl's murder and set free.

I may have made it sound a lot more complicated than it really was, but I thought it was a good book and a good film.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

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Very well put, Dave. You cleared up a few confusing parts for me.

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Dave Wile! you have class! also a great post, thank you.

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Add me to the list of the grateful, Dave Wile. I stopped caring about who or why half way through the movie. It was just too slow and vague for me to stay interested and you cleared it all up for me in a few words. Luckily it was a free offer from my VOD provider, so at least not a waste of money.

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OK, I just finished watching this DVD [from Netflix]. In this "version," there was no scene with Roulet getting out of the hospital nor anything indicating Martinez got HIV in prison. Confused. Help me out, here...


"Seems most IMDb users believe their own opinions are fact and all others' are wrong." ~Me

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"Seems most IMDb users believe their own opinions are fact and all others' are wrong.":

love yr tagline @jukaswo, so true!!!!

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I think they're referring to the book, jukaswo.. Those parts weren't in the film.

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Thank you! :)

"Seems most IMDb users believe their own opinions are fact and all others' are wrong." ~Me

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by davidwile

all of the charges for which Louis Roulet was on trial were dismissed with prejudice after the defense lawyer, Mick Haller, ripped the prosecution's case apart via what was essentially false evidence (testimony) he (the prison informant) manufactured and orchestrated.


From what I understand, the prison informant had a history of testifying against fellow inmates in order to have his sentence reduced or quashed. The one that was used to prove his unreliability was the case in Arizona, where a man had confessed to him in a cell that he raped and/or killed a young girl. Even though later, DNA evidence had ruled that man to be innocent. Now, if the man had confessed to the informant for whatever reason that he was guilty, the prison informant wasn't necessarily lying. Wasn't that wrongfully convicted guy mentally disturbed or something anyway? So I'm confused how it proves the informant to be unreliable.

One question about Roulet's mother. Even though it isn't stated I thought it might be implied in the film. That his mother lied about the rape and assault story just to explain why Roulet carried a knife. Is that correct?


When criminal charges are dismissed "with prejudice," that means the defendant can never be recharged for those particular crimes under double jeopardy protection.


So essentially he has immunity from prosecution of rape and assault? That can't be right. I'm familiar with the old double jeopardy rule where one couldn't be convicted of the same murder twice. Which I don't agree with. Thankfully, in the UK they've got rid of that absurd law. As forensic science improves, so does the amount of evidence that can be retrieved. It only makes sense to leave open the possibility for a second charge to be levelled. You have to remember, in a case where someone was murdered. If the accused is found not guilty, that doesn't mean they're innocent. It simply means the evidence was insufficient to convince the jury to deliver a guilty verdict. The only way someone can be found innocent is if another person has been convicted of the crime.

If impersonating a Police Officer is an offence, shouldn't actors be imprisoned?

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Hey Proprietor,

This posting will attempt to be responsive to the two "subjects" for which you have quoted me and provided your comments on same. I must admit, however, that I am not quite sure what you are asking in your comments on my first quoted passage. In any case, I will attempt to respond to yours with my thoughts that I hope will make some sense.

1. First item based on the following portion of my earlier post: "...all of the charges for which Louis Roulet was on trial were dismissed with prejudice after the defense lawyer, Mick Haller, ripped the prosecution's case apart via what was essentially false evidence (testimony) he (the prison informant) manufactured and orchestrated."

Your comments in response to the above: "From what I understand, the prison informant had a history of testifying against fellow inmates in order to have his sentence reduced or quashed. The one that was used to prove his unreliability was the case in Arizona, where a man had confessed to him in a cell that he raped and/or killed a young girl. Even though later, DNA evidence had ruled that man to be innocent. Now, if the man had confessed to the informant for whatever reason that he was guilty, the prison informant wasn't necessarily lying. Wasn't that wrongfully convicted guy mentally disturbed or something anyway? So I'm confused how it proves the informant to be unreliable."

"One question about Roulet's mother. Even though it isn't stated I thought it might be implied in the film. That his mother lied about the rape and assault story just to explain why Roulet carried a knife. Is that correct?"


First let me point out the jailhouse informant's testimony was totally false. The false testimony was fabricated and solicited by Haller when he had a girlfriend or sister or someone visit the inmate and tell him what to do and say in court. It really did not matter that the snitch frequently gave false testimony - all that mattered was that his testimony worked in this particular case to get the charges dismissed against Roulet. Yes, I think you are correct that Roulet's mother gave false testimony to give a credible reason for her son to have a knife in his possession.


2. Second item concerning "Double Jeopardy" protection as noted in my earlier post: "When criminal charges are dismissed "with prejudice," that means the defendant can never be recharged for those particular crimes under double jeopardy protection."

Your comments in response to the above: "So essentially he has immunity from prosecution of rape and assault? That can't be right. I'm familiar with the old double jeopardy rule where one couldn't be convicted of the same murder twice. Which I don't agree with. Thankfully, in the UK they've got rid of that absurd law. As forensic science improves, so does the amount of evidence that can be retrieved. It only makes sense to leave open the possibility for a second charge to be levelled. You have to remember, in a case where someone was murdered. If the accused is found not guilty, that doesn't mean they're innocent. It simply means the evidence was insufficient to convince the jury to deliver a guilty verdict. The only way someone can be found innocent is if another person has been convicted of the crime."


Yes, after the assault and rape charges against Roulet were dismissed with prejudice, that does mean Roulet would never again have to face charges for assault and rape against that particular victim for that particular crime. While I am not a lawyer, here in the United States our laws basically follow Common Law inherited from England. Our laws, however, are also bound by our Constitution which goes to great lengths to protect citizens via the first ten amendments more commonly referred to as our Bill of Rights. Double jeopardy as well as a person’s protection against self incrimination are specified in the Fifth Amendment where it states, “...nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself....

While you have every right to disagree with the concept of double jeopardy, I have a bit of a problem with your describing the concept as an “absurd law.” Here in the United States, most of us take our Bill of Rights very seriously and consider those ten amendments as the very essential keystone of our Constitution upon which our basic human freedoms are ensured and protected. We try to uphold the concept that a person is innocent until proven guilty, and the concept that it is better to have ten guilty persons go free rather than have one innocent person be found guilty.

The whole idea of double jeopardy is to protect a person from having the government abuse its power by refiling criminal charges against a citizen after the government has already held a trial and the defendant was found not guilty. If a citizen has been found not guilty by a jury trial, we do not give the government a second bite of the apple by recharging that person with the same crime. We also have statutes of limitation on most criminal charges other than homicide. Some cultures may consider us a bit different in our approach to legal rights, but we consider it essential to our appreciation of human freedoms.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

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Wow. I know I'm late to this discussion, but I find it disturbing that you can't see underlying justice that the double jeopardy rule provides. It is a simple fairness issue. Should the State be able to keep trying you for the same crime every time they find a new piece of evidence? Imagine how disruptive that would be to your life. A responsible prosecutor waits until he has enough to prove the charges before he files.

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Interesting. We don't have this rule in my country, but it is not a problem at all. In my country, while the State could indeed theoretically try to start the trial again and again every time they find a new piece of evidence, in practice this is not happening. I think it is because it is actually rather rare to find some new substantial evidence later after the trial and the state attorneys would not want to make fools of themselves by starting something they are not likely to win, plus they have enough work on their hands as it is. So the possibility to try someone again is seldom used and I never heard anybody suggesting that we should implement that rule you have in US.

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Most countries have SOME FORM of double jeopardy protection.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_jeopardy

In some countries, including Canada, Mexico and the United States, the guarantee against being "twice put in jeopardy" is a constitutional right. In other countries, the protection is afforded by statute law.[3]

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One final thought on the US double jeopardy law. It does indeed prevent the State from continually refiling the same charges against you, even after a jury has found you not guilty. The prosecutors wouldn't even need new "evidence" to do so -- just a compliant grand jury, which most district attorneys are expert at assembling. Sometimes the State will try to evade the double jeopardy ban by filing a related charge after someone is found not guilty -- charging the defendant with perjury is one such ploy. That's what Jim Garrison did after he clearly failed to prove that Clay Shaw was involved in the JFK assassination. It was harassment on Garrison's part, plain and simple.

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Quick comment: the title of this thread is itself a spoiler as it gives away that we don't know conclusively what happened at the end. I have read the book and seen the film, so no harm for me but there's a reason I don't check boards before watching - too many people post spoiler titles. A better subject would be "A question about Roulet's fate". Just a shame I can't get info to find out whether a movie is worth watching thanks to spoiler posts.

BTW, not claiming it's a big spoiler or anywhere near the worst offence I have seen of this but the point stands...

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Spoilers are pretty inherent in specific movie message boards anyway. You can't really avoid all spoilers unless you just see the movie first before coming here. Easy.

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