MovieChat Forums > La piel que habito (2011) Discussion > That was 100%, absolutely NOT RAPE

That was 100%, absolutely NOT RAPE

posted 12 years ago by g6kim
83 replies | jump to latest

If you think otherwise you're very out of touch from reality or just plain stupid. Very stupid.

Imagine this. I'm a man. I go to a party. I smile, laugh, and flirt with a cute girl. We start talking. We hold hands and leave the party together. Meanwhile, I still smile, laugh, and flirt with her. We start making out. I continue to smile and kiss her back. We start to have sex. I continue to smile, laugh, and flirt. Then, all of a sudden, out of absolutely nowhere, mid-thrust I start screaming my lungs out, because of a song that brings back memories of my dead mom. Not just a scream, but a eyes wide, I'm-a-crazy-psychotic-freak scream. She, of course, is scared out of her mind. For all she knows, I could be some crazy serial killer. She instinctively covers my mouth. At that point i bite down on her hand as hard as i possibly could. She reacts as any normal person would. No she doesn't tickle me, no she doesn't politely say "please stop biting me". She hits me to try and get me to stop as soon as possible, and she knocks me out. Did she rape me? Um.. no. She didn't rape me in any way, shape or form. If anything SHE was the victim of some crazy man.

Vicente was a victim in every way. A victim of a bad situation. A victim of a random crazy girl at a party. And of course, a victim of roberto.

[–] filmfancy 12 years ago

No need for name calling. We can all try to be civil.

Norma started biting Vicente because he was hurting her (I assumed she was a virgin). And yes he did rape her because he didn't stop when she was crying "No." She was a sheltered girl on medication; he was a pill-popping reckless guy. He didn't really care about her.

I agree he later became a victim at the hands of her father, but first he was a victimizer.

"And all the pieces matter"

[–] OutForAWalkB-tch 12 years ago

He stopped as soon as she started freaking out. There was no more thrusting after he became aware of her spazzing out.

I hear the drizzle of the rain. Like a memory it falls.

[–] g6kim 12 years ago

Watch the scene again, and this time please try to pay attention. I will spell it out for you and walk you through it.

At the 59:45 mark is the first time she says "No". Not "oh" or "ah", but "No". He stops thrusting at the 59:47 mark. That's TWO SECONDS. In the incredibly confusing, crazy situation he was put in by this psychotic girl, it took him 2 seconds from the first time she said "No" to him stopping. 2 seconds. So, what's your opinion on the cut off time of rape and not rape? 1.75 seconds? 1.55 seconds? Please tell me b/c I'm genuinely curious. It's not a rhetorical question, feel free to answer.

[–] elleveutlecoq 12 years ago

It was a two second rape.

[–] colour-me-kubrick 11 years ago

Yup not rape by any stretch. But at wrong place at wrong time.

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[–] Strazdamonas 12 years ago

She was not a virgin. We see her having sex at least two times before the occurance (one being the tiger rape).

---------------------------------------------
Applied Science? All science is applied. Eventually.

[–] tigerbos 12 years ago

What are you talking about? You have the characters confused. The tiger didn't rape the surgeon's daughter, he raped the man he did surgery on.
I think she's the saddest girl ever to hold a martini.

[–] Redux006 11 years ago

Give me a break. They were right in the middle of having sex, no guy, and I mean no guy stops the SECOND a girl says no. It takes a couple seconds to switch gears, to hear what they are saying, and then to realize they are being serious. Like OP said, imagine a girl is riding a guy, he starts saying no, the second he says no does she leap off him? Of course not, she is into what she is doing and it will take her a few seconds to process what the guy is saying and realize he's being serious.

Also, Vincent was at a party with rich elite people, and having sex with a rich elite daughter. If she is laying there screaming with her panties down and him on top of her, everyone is going to rush out and naturally assume this low-class guy who had no business at the party was raping her. So he tried to get her to be quiet, at which point she violently assaulted him. After being assaulted, he hit her back, instantly regretted it, and fled. He wasn't a bad guy, just irresponsible, as was she.

[–] ethermusic1981 10 years ago

Exactly, Ringo111.

[–] Korios 10 years ago

She never cried "No", that was the point, she only started screaming. And Vincente stopped almost immediately.

Fanboy : a person who does not think while watching.

[–] subliminalglory-1 12 years ago

I do not consider it to be rape, and I don't think that Almodovar wanted it to seem as rape. Vicente had no way of knowing she was not there mentally, he did not know what the pills were that she said she was taking he assumed that they were recreational. She said she wanted to get naked, she did not protest until after the intercourse had been going for a little bit. It was an unfortunate situation, and Robert had no way of knowing how it went down either. There is no reason for him to not have thought it was rape, and his getting of revenge is also justifiable, but he should have gone to the police and obviously went too far with his revenge.

[–] ZaZeus 12 years ago

Regardless, Vincente was a creep and pill abuser who, while not raping girls, certainly seemed to take advantage and be very pushy. I bet if she didn't scream
bloody murder and just kind of said no and tried to push away a bit, he would have kept going.

[–] Latcher 12 years ago

He didn't have her consent. She became very uncomfortable very quickly, but he was so out of it, he didn't even notice.

[–] pawnstar3 12 years ago

It wasn't rape and even if it was, he certainly didn't deserve what happened to him.

[–] ashtontylo 12 years ago

Absolutely!..Lots of creeps out there but not this one.

[–] uhhmike 12 years ago

he didnt have her consent? they started having sex and she didnt object. i guess if you sleep with someone for the first time, you should make sure to say "is this okay with you? i just want to know im not forcing you to do this."

thats ridiculous - she was into it until she the song-trauma stuff started to kick in. he didnt force her to take her clothes off and didnt force her into the woods - it wasnt rape in my opinion. plus, when she did freak out, he did stop - it just took him two seconds to figure out what was going on.

if he wanted to rape her, he could have done it while she was knocked out after he hit her (which ill admit was wrong) - when she was knocked out, he did not continue to have sex with her.

[–] meikido 10 years ago

So if a girl stops speaking, gets wide eyes, squirms, doesn't make any noises that indicate pleasure, does not touch you in any sensual way you would not ask "Is this ok with you?"?

That's kind of odd to me personally. If my partner would not engage in any way in sexual actions that I instigate and would show no signs of pleasure I would definitely make sure if they are ok with it. I would probably be majorly turned off too.

[–] Arien_78 10 years ago

Exactly. She wasn't enjoying it at all. Just kinda laid there, disconnected, and he just pretty much forced himself on her.

http://www.facebook.com/ainoakeolakauilani

[–] Korios 10 years ago

She did not say "NO" or "Stop!", so he effectively had her silent consent. If you think about it when making out with intention to progress further, it would be super lame to ask all the time "May I do this? May I do that?" It is the same with the first kiss, you do not ask for it, you steal it. And if the other party does not consent s/he can always just say "NO!"

Fanboy : a person who does not think while watching.

[–] meikido 10 years ago

Silent consent? Really?
I get that it's not always neccessary to verbally ask 'Is it ok if I do this and that?' but that's in cases when your partner actively engages in sexual actions with you. If they don't then you should absolutely ask 'Is this ok for you?'.

With your line of reasoning it'd be alright to engage in sexual actions with a sleeping or unconscious person.

[–] clashie705 12 years ago

"Regardless, Vincente was a creep and pill abuser who, while not raping girls, certainly seemed to take advantage and be very pushy. I bet if she didn't scream
bloody murder and just kind of said no and tried to push away a bit, he would have kept going."

Why people like you think they have valuable things to say is beyond me. Stop posting on message boards, you sound like a *beep* idiot. Honestly, you might just want to stop talking altogether.

[–] ZaZeus 12 years ago

Why people like you think they should act like a twat when they disagree with what someone says is beyond me. Stop posting on message boards, you sound like a prick. Honestly, you might just want to give up on yourself altogether.

[–] clashie705 12 years ago

"Why people like you think they should act like a twat when they disagree with what someone says is beyond me. Stop posting on message boards, you sound like a prick. Honestly, you might just want to give up on yourself altogether."

When you assume you make an ass out of yourself. Learn from that.

[–] ZaZeus 12 years ago

When you take something on an Internet message board so seriously that you are a complete dick to a total stranger, you have a lot to learn.

[–] clashie705 12 years ago

Everyone on these message boards is a total stranger to me, you just happened to have said something retarded.

It's kind of like this scene; when you do/say something, people can only perceive what is being shown to them. Regardless of whether or not you were being sarcastic, I saw you say something terribly assumptious and called you out dood look at these parallels im drawin

[–] ZaZeus 12 years ago

An opinion on a fictional character, based on things he does and the way he acts, is not "retarded" or "terribly assumptious." However, freaking out at someone because of a comment made about a fictional character, as well as using the word "retarded," is incredibly immature and embarrassing. A site like this is for discussing films, making comments about them, and yes, sometimes even making presumptions about what we might think would have or could have happened in them if things were laid out differently. No one made any "terribly assumptious" comments about real people that may have been crude, mean, or slanderous, so please get over yourself, grow up, and try to be a nicer person.

[–] ethermusic1981 10 years ago

Lol yep.

[–] shining_starz 12 years ago

It wasn't rape util she started saying "No" and he told her to shut up and continued

[–] g6kim 12 years ago

"she started saying "No" and he told her to shut up and continued"

what movie were you watching? I definitely did not see him "continue" when she said "No". You must've been hallucinating.

[–] shining_starz 12 years ago

Well he put his hand over her mouth and told her to shut up, so yeah, it that sense he continued (or at least tried to) to have sex with her. That is why she then bit him.

-She's with Gideon now
-Aww,maybe it's because he's better than you

[–] g6kim 12 years ago

No he didn't continue. Watch it again. Pay attention. As soon as he realizes that she's screaming HE STOPS HAVING SEX WITH HER. Seriously, what movie were you watching?

[–] okusandman 12 years ago

It seems everyone decided to skip the part where Norma was hospitalized afterwards and hid in the closet when her father came to visit her.

The doctor came in and explained that since "the attack" she identified with her father as if he were "her rapist" - because her father was the first person she saw after she regained consciousness after the rape.

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] tigerbos 12 years ago

Duh. I think that's one of the points of the film. The Tiger dude was the one who deserved what the other dude got as far as I'm concerned. In the end, everybody 'loses'.

I think she's the saddest girl ever to hold a martini.

[–] subase 12 years ago

Not really he thought it was his ex-lover and vera played along, she consented.

[–] tigerbos 12 years ago

No she didn't 'play along'. I don't know where you got that...It's funny how some dudes can think a woman is playing along with them after some man jumps their ass and rapes them as if the woman really wanted it.

I think she's the saddest girl ever to hold a martini.

[–] TheManInOil 12 years ago

It's really scary that there are people who think like you. You're a danger to society if you think what he did was okay.

"I'll book you. I'll book you on something. I'll find something in the book to book you on."

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] Lizard51867 12 years ago

I agree with you. I consider myself a feminist, and I couldn't call this rape. There is no way that Vicente could have understood Norma's problems, especially considering he was out of it on drugs. His state of mind is his own fault, but even sober, he couldn't know that she is a disturbed, psychologically fragile, heavily medicated young woman with no social skills. It's not his fault for not recognizing that she doesn't know common slang; how was he supposed to deduce from her idiosyncrasies that she's been institutionalized for years? She doesn't realize that the nieces are all planning to have a midnight romp in the garden, but he does, and he thinks she does, too; he even takes her further away so they can have privacy. He offers to undress her, she doesn't refuse. He kisses her, and she doesn't refuse. He starts having sex with her, and she tries in no way to stop him. Then, suddenly, she screams and SCREAMS. He doesn't know why she is screaming. He thought she was on board with him, two stoned kids having fun, and she was to an extent. I wouldn't say she was enjoying it, but she seemed at least curious; it was more like she was trying to be normal, or had decided to go with the flow until the song in the background pulled her crazy trigger.

There are two scenarios for the slap being so effective, for lack of a better word. It could have made her pass out because she was hysterical or psychotic or dissociative. Any way you slice it, at that moment she has a lot of neuro-chemicals or whatever reacting in a very small span of time; it's possible a slap is just an overload to the system. More practically, it's also possible that when he slapped her, he knocked her head into the trunk of the tree she was lying on, and that knocked her out for a few minutes.

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Arien_78 10 years ago

He was not out of it as he tried to make like nothing happened to her.

http://www.facebook.com/ainoakeolakauilani

[–] They_Call_Me_Emily 12 years ago

OP, I absolutely agree with you.
I'm a female (obviously), if that helps.
Even if she randomly decided (in the middle of the "session") she didn't want to do it, screaming your lungs off is not the way to go. This is before even asking him to stop, etc. Obviously, the guy got frightened as someone in the vicinity, hearing her screams, could easily misconstrue it as rape and he'd get in trouble ... for, er, heeding her apparent advances or, at the very least, hints.
I felt awful for him throughout the movie. He didn't do anything! The girl was just damaged from the moment she saw her mother jump out the window.
At the same time, I was actually relieved about the sex change. Truth be told, I was expecting Roberto to skin him. I nearly turned off the movie at that point. I mean, that'd be too much to stomach, and the guy is totally innocent, as well.
And him being really ... cute didn't help, lol.