I read nothing about the movie before going to see it, so it took me up until Vincente was kidnapped to get it, but not all the way to the surgery. I should have figured it out when he was applying the strips of cloth to the mannequin.
"Man, you shoulda seen 'em, kicking Edgar Allen Poe."
I must be a bit slow, but I didn't figure it out until Vincente was on the operating table and Ledgard was about to do the sex change. It was a surprise to me on the same level as the ending of the "The Sixth Sense". I absolutely love when that happens!
shareI do love movies where they dangle the hints in front of you the whole way, and when you look back, you get to go "OOOOOOHHHHH!"
"Man, you shoulda seen 'em, kicking Edgar Allen Poe."
Me, too. I've only seen it once, but I'd like to watch it again on DVD and pick up on all the clues I missed at the cinema. I think that'll be almost as much fun as the surprise.
shareI got it as soon as he said they were doing a vagioplasty. I'm not Spanish so perhaps some of the clues along the way weren't properly translated into English, however when I watch a film I try not to be constantly predicting the plot end as this takes your attention away from the beauty of the film. I just let the film tell me the story and then I come here afterwards to read the bizarre theories some of the screwballs come up with lol.
shareI'm slower. I read no reviews, so the first half of the movie was confusing. I had several theories early on. Enumerated below in sequence as to when I first thought of it:
1) Vera was an artificial woman grown from the DNA of his dead wife (reason: blood sample, pig serum)
2) Vera was Robert's wife who secretly survived and lost her memory (reason: why else would he be replacing her skin)
3) Vera was Robert's mistress who caused the accident that killed his wife (reason: Robert obviously does not love her)
4) Vera was Norma (reason: Gal was definitely dead. Incest is an icky thought, but not impossible)
5) Vera was a random girl kidnapped by Robert because she looked like Norma (reason: Marilia confirmed that Gal AND Norma were both dead)
At that point, I was running of out ideas and was starting to get bored with a seemingly random insertion of a young man who rapes Vera (at least I thought that was Vera). Then events unfolded quickly but still very confusingly. And finally everything fell into place with a loud KERTHUNK when Robert told Vicente that he just gave him a vaginoplasty.
I remember staring stupidly at the screen for a minute before finally going WHOA! WHOA!
Beautifully executed twist.
I was expecting them to turn Vincente into Norma, since he killed her, it would do justice to take her place himself. And that Vera is transformed from someone that gives an even bigger plot twist.
My over active imagination also lead me to suspect Vera to be some mutant pig transgenesis creation.
Marilia referred to Vera as "this one", so I also expected there are many Veras before this one.
...a little fantastic, and fleeting, and out of reach.
Maybe I'm fast, but I figured out the twist right when they showed Vera sleeping, and she started to have the flashback. She wasn't in her flashbacks, and they showed a close up of Vincente's face at the wedding dance, fading with her sleeping face in the present. This made me think right away, that Vera was Vincente, cause she is not in her own flasbkacks. I found that the twist was poorly hidden as a result.
shareWhen Fox News gave it away in an article when the film debuted at Cannes.
Had I not known going into the theater, it'd probably be the shot of Vera asleep in the bed with the flash of Vicente turning at the wedding party.
I have a message for Germany...
Wow, dude that really sucks. Did you still enjoy the movie even though the surprise was spoiled for you?
"Man, you shoulda seen 'em, kicking Edgar Allen Poe."
I think I would have figured it out beforehand anyway because of the similarities between Elena Anaya and Jan Cornet, but I still enjoyed it a good deal.
I have a message for Germany...
I doubt you would have.
You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, Darling!share
Years later, I can't say I'm inclined to agree. Having watched the film a number of times, there are a lot of subtle and not so subtle clues to suggest what happened to Vicente long before he's properly introduced (i.e. the flashes of him looking at Norma at the party and his fleeing the scene of the crime) and how it ultimately ties into Vera.
"KatTS" / "KoC" / "DP" / "SAM" / "K"
I started to suspect something but as soon as Vincente was laying on the table it all clicked. I just saw the movie with two friends (that are twins), one figured it out when Vincente was kidnapped, the other didn't until after the movie ended and we had to tell him multiple times until he got it.
I got a pocket full of Hawthornes! My p-p-pocket full of Hawthornes!
haha, he just didn't want to admit she was him
"Man, you shoulda seen 'em, kicking Edgar Allen Poe."
The clues were planted there....and even the dialogue would playfully hint at it... I guess since it's Almdovar you'd suspect something crazy like that, but still daring when you see that he actually pulled it off.
(spoilers)
Don't know about you guys but when Vincent asked what had been done to him and Antonio Banderas said "Vaginoplasty" that got a huge laugh.... and the aisle was roaring in horror and delight when Antonio started telling him that his lips will stick together if he doesn't loosen them up and started putting out the array of dildos...
By the way, Vera was so beautiful that you kind of forget that she was supposed to be a man...and get sucked into Antonio Bandera's character's world where he's strangely attracted to this woman who looks and acts like a Bond girl.
**Spoilers from another movie **
Anyone who saw The CG (not gonna spell it not to ruin the experience), has this kind of twist in his mind for the rest of his life.
lol
And this was a rather soft twist comparing to being introduced to the real *thing* in close up.
I must be slower than all of you because I didn't realize the twist until right after the surgery when the camera pans down to Vera's post-surgery face (the image on the movie poster). And I never suspected it either, and I'm glad. The storytelling is so interesting that I got wrapped up in the two plotlines without even wondering how they'd come together.
shareAgreed.
(spoiler)
Yeah, movies like the Crying game have forever made me suspicious. Including other foreign films that like to play with this type of theme. But, this movie was so well made I didn't care if I guessed it or not... it was just really well told....and Pedro was able to masterfully pull it off.
Was it really considered a Twist? I didn't see it as much of a twist, it was just a part of the film to me.
shareI would consider it a twist, because it's meant to surprise the audience. It's just in the middle of the movie instead of at the end.
Or, if you don't like "twist", it is most definitely a "U turn".
To me it just felt like it was explaining the characters more. We were introduced to these strangers and then the flash back merely filled in the blanks. It just didn't feel like a game changer; more like a game explainer. I'm not trying to be argumentative just that is how I saw it.
shareYes but the story is told in such a way that you are being set up for a surprise. There are two seemingly separate stories that unite in a really strange way. It's not like you knew from the beginning that Vera used to be a man!
shareI only figured out what happened to Vicente after Norma commited suicide. Up until that point I was convinced SHE was Vera...
shareYes that's what we were arguing here, does Norma somehow become Vera? But that would have been an even stranger twist than the one we got. Dr. Ledgard was a mad scientist and not a very sympathetic character, but having him sleep with his own daughter would have run the movie off of a cliff.
Anyway, "Vera" and "Vicente" are too similar.
I'm reminded a bit of "Vertigo" too.
- - -
"...and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped."share
I just saw the film last night, but I'd read the twist here on imdb before the film was even released here, so I've semi-known about it since then. At the time I read it I half suspected it was speculation from somebody having watched the trailer, or somebody's guess after reading a review. I didn't take it as fact that that was definitely the twist. But watching the film, knowing in the back of my mind that that could be the twist, it was clear that that's the way the film was going as soon as I saw that Vincent and Vera were of similar height, build, and had vaguely similar facial features.
shareit was clear that that's the way the film was going as soon as I saw that Vincent and Vera were of similar height, build, and had vaguely similar facial features.
Don't try to cash in love, that check will always bounce.share
I hate this movie because of torture. But it doesn't take away the quality of the movie just because I can't digest the story.
It was quite a suspense for me because I left all the clues until very very late. It prepared me up with the biggest ohhhhhh than all of you. I had to stop the movie and think, all the clues were already in front of my eyes.
I know I was kind of dumb, but I enjoyed it the most. Even if I hate it for having such a storyline.
You're way ahead of me. I didn't know anything about this movie too before seeing it, so I didn't figure out the twist until it was revealed (Vera's post-surgery face). My first thought when that happened was: "OMG! He just had sex with a man who raped his daughter! That's so f-ked up!"
Did I adequately answer your condescending question?
"OMG! He just had sex with a man who raped his daughter! That's so f-ked up!"
Yes he did. She started saying no the point of having to fight him to get him off her, yet he fights back and even knocks her out before finishing himself off and running away. Just because they had started to have sex doesn't mean she suddenly can't be raped.
share[deleted]
This is completely OT from your point but you lost me at the last paragraphs, I'm pretty sure Vicente wasn't Marilia's son (nor Robert and Zeca's brother).I think you confused that part unless there was a scene where they clarify that but I don't recall it. I'm pretty sure Vicente was supposed to be unrelated to all that family.
I wish I could eat you so I could vomit you
It was so crazy I felt like I could see it coming. When you've seen enough Almodovar films you kind of expect the weirdest scenario...
shareWhoa whoa whoa...
With that last paragraph, I can tell you're confused. Vicente and Robert did NOT share the same mother. The two ladies looked alike but they weren't the same. Robert and Zeca were family. Vicente was from a different family.
Vicente is not the brother. Marilia is not his mother. Vicente/Vera kills Marilia before escaping, and then goes to the dress shop to find his mother and sister who he hasn't seen since 2006. His mother wouldn't be at the shop alive, when she was shot back at the mansion, if they were the same person. They do look similar, so maybe you just thought it was the same person.
shareImaPoopHead:"Maybe you should stop listening to the media and get a real education. I don't understand how people make so many mistakes like this when watching a movie or tv show""
I feel really bad for Marilia because in almost a day's work, she lost all 3 of her sons. She unknowingly lost Vincente to the plastic surgery, and Zeca was the middle son who raped the youngest son (lol) and then Robert killed Zeca (although I don't feel too bad about that) and now Robert's dead without knowing that Marilia was his mother, or knew what he's done and vice versa. I feel bad for Vincente for not doing anything terrible that would justify his 6 years of torture going through that sex change, and being raped by his brother while also having sex with his oldest brother while remaining as a woman forever AND killing his own mother (probably didn't even realize it was his mother either) all for a misunderstanding due to him being drugged up and not being able to explain his situation.
I actually had the theory that it was Vincente before I saw the movie. I read the plot summary on IMDB and then looked up other reviews, and I remember one mentioned that he kidnaps the man who raped his daughter and the idea just popped into my head, "What if it's that guy?" I think it was also because every review emphasized he was a "brilliant" plastic surgeon, and because I thought that the mask Vera wears on the cover was just a regular mask to hide her/his identity.
shareI started suspecting when Vincente was shot with a dart, and not a bullet. When he was chained to a wall, I realized the twist.
Before that, I thought Vera was Norma. Which made it look so perverted - the uncle fk her, then dad screwed her... LOL
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