MovieChat Forums > 3 Idiots (2009) Discussion > Bollywood films are ruining the Imdb top...

Bollywood films are ruining the Imdb top 250


For the last couple of years, the top 250 has seen ever more Asian and Bollywood films entering the list. At the risk of being branded that tediously ubiquitous word that begins with “R” and ends with “ist”, I'll say my piece. Because I think this Asian invasion is a very, very bad thing for Imdb.

Some of the films being elevated to lofty positions are PK (2014), Gangs Of Wasseypur (2012), Lagaan: Once Upon A Time In India (2011), Dil Chahta Hai (2001), Rang De Basanti (2006), A Wednesday (2008) 3 Idiots (2009), Like Stars On Earth (2007) and The Bandit (2006).

Cut to the chase: these films are poor. At first I watched a couple of them, thinking that it was good and right to expand my cultural knowledge. I'd never heard of these films before – perhaps they WERE classics that had been ignored by the Western media. Sadly, no: Three Idiots is a broad, hellishly overlong comedy (most Bollywood films seem to be of absurd length) with sickly sentiment and a weird mix of the juvenile and the serious (there are a few bright song and dance numbers though); Like Stars On Earth is a syrupy, sickly drama, hopelessly unsubtle and – of course - hellishly overlong (again, with a few bright moments).

These films do not stand up to objective analysis. This is hypothetical, but if they were made by Hollywood they would not get favourable critical notices or sell many tickets. A delve into what Imdb deigns to tell us about voters reveals that on the films listed above, ALL have a very low score from “Top 1000 voters”, ie voters who regularly vote on the Imdb's best films. We can conclude from this that people who actually know about films and have decent taste are giving these Bollywood films very low scores. But they are washed away by a tsunami of less critically astute viewers on the site.

Democracy can suck sometimes, huh? But I wouldn't even call this “democracy”, because there is no demos, ie the common populace of a democracy as a unit. Just as sovereignty cannot be pooled, democracy cannot be extended to very different common populaces and be expected to function in the same way. Those steeped in Hollywood tend not to be steeped in Bollywood.

Every week now, it seems, the top 250, once a reasonably reliable measure of quality, is being contaminated by more of these movies. This is partly because when films cross the 25,000-vote mark they become eligible for the top 250. Why is this happening? My guess would be that there are now more and more English speakers who have a cultural affinity with Eastern culture. Europe has more Asian people within its limits than ever before; more Asians in their home countries speak English, and then they go on websites like Imdb.

I can only see the situation getting worse. And I don't see any easy way to fix it – a few more years from now who's to say that around half of the top 250 won't consist of Asian films? Possible solutions will likely be beyond the pale of what is considered acceptable at a big, consumer-friendly website like Imdb. In this woebegone age of cultural relativity it will be said that to act against these films and their fans, and, say, give them their own, separate list would be tantamount to cultural apartheid and even promote the idea that the white person's ideas are superior to the non-white person's ideas.

Something has to be done, though, or the top 250 will slide into irrelevance, slain by political correctness (as much else that is good has been). By all means allow everyone to keep voting for films they like, but don't have one list purporting to be the “ultimate” list when it is really a miserable melting pot that pleases nobody, an apologetic rota designed to pretend that we all think the same way and want to think the same way.

And don't say something like “but it's their culture, you don't understand” or dish out any of that “white imperialism” garbage, because that's exactly what it is, garbage. Do that and you're stepping behind the wannabe impregnable defensive shield of political correctness given to you by people who hate their history and culture; you're indulging in the last refuge of a scoundrel.

While, say, Indian cuisine or Japanese architecture can be said to have high worth in their respective fields, Bollywood films do not have high worth in cinema. Not a single one has ever come close to getting within a sniff of an Academy Award for instance. Roger Ebert or Leonard Maltin or Leslie Halliwell or Pauline Kael didn't laud any of them. Why would great film writers write about great films from around the world, from Russia, from Italy, from France, from Japan, and NOT talk about Bollywood films? Answer: because they're rubbish! They're not worth mentioning. It has nothing to do with prejudice, it's to do with sober critical assessment, and those rating Bollywood films 10/10 do not have these critical faculties.

As a film-lover I consider it a minor tragedy that this is happening to the top 250. It's no longer a proper list of great films. Truly excellent films are being pushed out of the list because of these low quality interlopers that happen to have a small band of vociferous supporters who probably haven't ever even seen a Hitchcock, a Kubrick, an Allen or perhaps even a Satyajit Ray.

I'm aware that the top 250 will never be a 100% reliable guide to what to watch, and that its voting system is sometimes caught up in a tangled web of vicious, petty geekery, but its value is being massively eroded further by what is now happening, and that's a crying shame.

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[deleted]

There should be an English language IMDB Top 250 and also a foreign language 250. That way the current lowest English movie 'The Hustler' currently at No 248 would be No 187 and we would have another 60 English speaking movies in the IMDB Top 250 and give English speaking people a better chance of completing the Top 250 list.
There is an abundance of good movies all rated 8.0 and above with 25,000 votes (so no dilution in quality) and it would certainly kerb all these conflicts on every single Indian movie message board in the current IMDB 250.

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There's actually some merit in that idea of different top250's, but the absolute top250 is just what it is, an absolute, and unless IMDb has a rule that says 'No Indians' or 'No Foreigners', then we assume that the top250 has to respect the views of everyone in the world regardless of where they are from or what they like.

But - I do like the idea of being able to apply filters to the top250, so for instance if I didn't like Bollywood (or if I did like it for that matter) I could filter to exclude, or only see, Bollywood results. The same could apply to films in a non-English language, or other categories that people don't like (musicals for me, really irritating). To be able to see a list that excluded the stuff you don't like, no matter what the category is, makes a lot of sense.

It could be turned around too, so that if I wanted to find out what the top250 Spansih films are for example, apply that filter, and Bingo! I culd find out a lot more about areas of cinema I am interested in, as well as avoiding those that turn me off.

IMDb does risk being a bit of a White Fanboy dominion at times, and I actually think that the undoubted strength of the Bollywood industry is healthy for the site, even though I like many others don't really get or enjoy it. Diversity is good, but so too is the ability to get what you want from it be it Bollywood or Hollywood.

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There's a movie about the grown ass man dressed like a bat that lives in a cave and fights deranged clown on the fourth place of the best movies in the history of cinema and you are bitching about how Bollywood movies are ruining IMDB's top 250?

If you love Jesus Lizard and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make it your signature!

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Thank you Lukas. For reminding me there are actual intelligent people and not simply robots marching around.

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Hah, good point! But I guess my shortest answer would be: two wrongs don't make a right.

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The best reply on IMDb I've ever seen.

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Even the Top 1000 voters rated that cheesy superhero movie very highly... That only goes to show that the Top 1000 voters have no credibility.

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[deleted]

What about a 40+ year old man playing a teen?

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I think these situations always will tend to sort themselves out. As films get higher on the list and higher acclaim on this site, more voting people will watch them and the high ratings will get balanced out.

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Yes! I agree.

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First of all, I'd like to point out that the correct length of a movie is a very subjective thing which changes from culture to culture. As such, I think it is unreasonable to complain about the length of an Indian movie when Indian movies are generally longer than western movies. I'm sure Indians would criticize 12 Angry Men or Citizen Kane for being too short. This is also why I'm hesitant to accept the votes of the IMDB top 1000 voters, as they will probably be mostly western film-goers with western tastes.

Also, some of the schmaltz and cheesiness from the movies you mentioned may have come from poor translations.

Finally, I heavily recommend you watch Lagaan: Once Upon a Time in India. Despite some Bollywood tropes, it is generally less cheesy than most of the other films you mentioned and does have a sense of dignity. I think it was well deserving of its Oscar nomination for Best Foreign Language Film, and a rating of 8.2 seems fitting.




But.



Despite having said all that, I still agree that Indian film standards are generally lower than western film standards. So while I think films 3 Idiots and Like Stars on Earth are some of the best Bollywood films out there, they still don't hold up against other films on the IMDB top 250. They definitely don't deserve ratings as high as 8.0 - let alone 8.5.

To be honest, I think the best way to alter the IMDB top 250 is just to add some filters. That way, people can not only remove Indian films from the list, but also see top 250s for their favorite genres (or even see the top 250 Indian films).

However, I think the regular top 250 should be kept the way it is. As an "absolute" list, it needs to allow any vote on any film from any person of any nationality - and splitting it into several different lists of different cultures would kinda defeat the point.

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You make some interesting points.

What does seem to be happening, though, is that Bollywood films ARE slipping out of the list (at time of writing). I'm guessing it's because their enthusiasts haven't maintained the drive to keep 'regularly voting', which seems to be a big factor in deciding what makes up the 250.

So hooray for democracy!

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[deleted]

It's a toss between Bollywood and Nolan, really.



---
"Don't just DO something, STAND there!"
Pastor Charlie Bing

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Hey man, I rated 3 Idiots and Like Stars On Earth a 10/10. So I think those movies deserve top250.

If u can say those movies are ruining top250, so I can say Godfather, Pulp Fiction, Fight Club, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, The Usual Suspects, The Departed, The Great Dictator, The Shining, Paths of Glory, etc... are ruining IMDb top250 according to me. All those movies I rated not more than 8/10, so they dont deserve top250.

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[deleted]

If you think this film is actually better than Paths Of Glory, Godfather I&II, The Great Dictator or even films which it's somehow ahead of on this list such as The Treasure Of The Sierra Madre, The Third Man, Heat, The Battle of Algiers, Pan Labyrinth, Tokyo Story, Raging Bull, Chinatown, Dial M For Murder, then you're opinion is absolute worthless trash. If you think that utter utter trash like this should be in a list of the top 250 greatest films ever then you shouldn't be allowed to vote. With art you have to be a complete fascist, it's not a democracy. People like you are the reason Crazy Frog sells 1 million records. You don't know art and thus you're opinion on it is void.

I mean, Paths Of Glory!!! Seriously???

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Can't take you seriously with a list like this.
http://www.imdb.com/list/ls004183963/

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This was a movie made for Asian audiences, not Western audiences. If you haven't experienced an Asian education system, or haven't experienced the enormous pressure associated with education in a third-world society, then you're going to have a hard time relating to the film's themes.

Also, this movie has something that most Hollywood movies in the IMDb Top 250 lack: cultural relevance. Most of the Hollywood movies on the IMDb Top 250 only serve as mere throwaway entertainment, with little to no cultural relevance beyond the silver screen. In comparison, 3 Idiots is a culturally relevant film that has served as a force for social and cultural change, for students in India and other Asian countries with similar education systems. That's far more than can be said for most of the Hollywood movies in the IMDb Top 250.

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