MovieChat Forums > Le silence de Lorna (2008) Discussion > Question (spoilers)

Question (spoilers)

posted 16 years ago by Hoboboy
18 replies | jump to latest

I could just be nit-picking here, but if the Russian wanted Belgian citizenship why not marry a Belgian. It seemed like a needlessly complicated plan to pay a Belgian druggie and an Albanian to marry so they can murder the druggie after the Albanian has got Belgian citizenship allowing her to marry the Russian.

My question here is why not just pay a Belgian woman to marry the Russian? No need to murder anyone, would only have to pay one person not two and no need to wait so long, also looks a lot more convincing to the authorities

[–] ursa-4 15 years ago

Hahahaha, nice one... never thought of that.

[–] evenfiel 15 years ago

I guess that marrying just for the sake of getting a citizenship is probably illegal. Killing the druggie is a good thing, cause he was the sole belgian who could denounce Lorna. Lorna wouldn't denounce anyone, because she also got into a scheme to get her citizenship.

A regular belgian woman would probably be a lot more expensive, difficult to find and give more trouble in the future.

[–] Hoboboy 15 years ago

the issue of a Belgian woman marrying the russian for citizenship being legal is of no consequence for two main reasons. Firstly they are already breaking the law by having the druggie marry Lorna for citizenship and secondly when she obtains citizenship Lorna becomes Belgian and so its illegal for her to marry the russian as well.

Also the idea of a regular Belgian woman being more expensive doesnt work for me either because they got a regular belgian man to marry Lorna. Why not get the Russian to marry a female Belgian druggie? If she is more expensive then then it doesnt matter because they are paying one person not two, and if she is a problem then they kill her as easily as they killed the druggie in the film

[–] ppeerrssoonnaa 15 years ago

i guess is a mcguffin!!!. not to think about it too much... the film is ok as it is. apart from the jump on the story where claudy is alive in one scene and all of a sudden is dead.

[–] ryankent1984 15 years ago

I'm sure the Dardenne's thought of this when writing the script. They are not stupid.

I don't know anything about the rules and regulations about gaining citizenship in Belgium because I'm English, but I'm pretty sure they researched the story before writing and wouldn't have missed out such a seemingly obvious flaw. It did win best screenplay at Cannes after all.

[–] ryankent1984 15 years ago

Thinking about it, I believe Lorna wanted to come to Belgium from Albania to start a better life and open a shop. She did this with the help of Fabio, who arranged for her to marry Claudy. Then Fabio made an arrangement with the Russian to marry Lorna when she gained citizenship.

I assume one of the conditions she gets a citizenship by marrying Claudy was to help the Russian do the same. Fabio doubles his money and he doesn't have to mess about finding a seperate Belgian woman to marry the Russian. Claudy was a junkie after all, he was expendable according to Fabio.

[–] Hoboboy 15 years ago

I am not implying that the Dardenne Brothers are stupid. Perhaps i did not make it clear but my initial question was hoping for some hard examples of such incidents happening. Plus you may have missed this in the film but Lorna does not pay, she is actually the one being paid by Fabio to marry the Russian (thus the subplot of her looking at cafes to buy after she receives the money). It is also worth noting that they promise to play Claudy.

Lornas motives are irrelevant to me as they are clear. She wants citizenship, and if she is being paid to do so then so much for the better. It is Fabio's motives I question. As I've said before just hiring a female druggie from Belgium to marry the Russian would be the simplest option, no need to wait for her to get citizenship in turn, and it means one less person to pay.

But look if there is actually an active business in this in Europe fair enough. I would still like to know what causes the added complications.

[–] ryankent1984 15 years ago

I'd have to watch the film again to see if I can spot anything that will help understand it better. I don't think it would be over-complicated for no reason. Will have to wait for the DVD I guess.

[–] psdhart 12 years ago

Exactly

Lorna wanted to set up that snack shop and to this end Fabio organises what is called a "Mariage blanc" (when an immigrant marries a local)
Lorna was then supposed to marry the russian

It was 2 jobs in one

[–] jmai-2 15 years ago

How about this answer. It is a better scheme to have a female junkie that can be killed off later, granted (maybe). But the film is not about a guy who is a criminal genius. It's about a guy in a realistic situation, a beginner, who has what he has to work with. So working through Lorna may not be the most efficient, but it is certainly perfectly reasonable given the situation on the ground where he is. And nothing says that the band won't be found out by the police anyway, they aren't the smartest people on earth.

Secondly, one can imagine how it is less dangerous to use Lorna than another junkie. Right now, nothing proves that Claudy was murdered, or induced to overdose. But if another junkie cum spouse where to die in like manner, you'd begin to see a pattern. Perhaps it could be proved that Lorna married the Russian for citizenship. But between a mariage scam and murder, I'd choose the first sentence.

On a final note, Claudy's story was actually inspired by a very real story told by a friend of the D's. Lorna's, however, is an invention. I think for you not to be annoyed by this point, it is important to see the film as about realistic people, not ideal criminals.

[–] Hoboboy 15 years ago

Jmai-2 thank you for the type of sensible and thought out answer I was looking for. Though I dont think I was thinking of ideal criminals, after all Im a real person and would have done it my way. However a lot of what you say makes sense

[–] biaxident79 15 years ago

I guess it's easy to miss because it's just a line in the very first scene, where Lorna is at the bank. She says that she is going to become Belgian and therefore can apply for a loan now.

Don't forget that Fabio probably arranged for Lorna to marry the Belgian druggie, which implies that Lorna owes Fabio something, maybe money or some other kind of arrangement like agreeing to marry the Russian. Also Fabio tells Lorna he will pay her 10,000 once she marries the Russian but there is no proof that Fabio will not get way more from the Russian or that Fabio will even pay Lorna at all. After all, he managed to get rid of the druggie without paying him...

[–] TemporaryOne-1 15 years ago

I read in an interview that the Brothers Dardenne based part of the plot on a real situation that happened to a brother of their friend (he was a Belgium drug addict who was asked by the Albanian mafia to marry an Albanian prostitute to secure her citizenship. He ultimately refused). According to the interview, the Brothers were strongly focused on Lorna's guilt/transformation issue, and they had not researched Belgium's criminal laws pertaining to illegal immigration or migrant marriages.

I would say they intentionally enhanced (dramatic licence) the scenario in order to bring credence to Lorna's transformation. They needed the protagonist to suffer in a manner that would bring about a full-circle transformation. If the marriage scenario was simple, her plight would have been diminished, we would not even have a film.

[–] jm10701 14 years ago

That's the best answer to the original question. It's a drama after all, not a documentary.

[–] peacecreep 14 years ago

I got the feeling that Mobster was an acquaintance of Lorna and was going to help her out by doing business with her. That's why he used her. An indication that they have known each other is when she said to him that she just wants the money and he said "that's the Lorna I know." If she hadn't wigged out all would have turned out fine for her.

[–] Filmmakermom 13 years ago

You have to be familiar with the reality of illegal immigrants to get this... An Albanian women who gets her citizenship thorugh a illegal scheme is more vulnerable and continues to be "property" of the mob who set it up.

[–] infinity8 11 years ago

Agreed. The mob gave Lorna her start and she is beholden to them (both in the sense that she owes them and in the sense that they can kill her or expose her marriage as a sham at any point). Since she and her boyfriend were going to start a snack bar, the mob may have been able to get involved in that business, too, or use it as a front for laundering money or something.

There are a few other perks of using Lorna to marry the Russian, too:
1) The mobsters trust her to some degree.
2) Lorna has proved that she can pull off a faux marriage. Since she made it through her relationship with Claudy without the Beligian authorities being the wiser, she could probably do it again.
3) As a non-native of Belgium, Lorna knew less about ways to get help from authorities or turn in the mobsters. She has few connections in Belgium outside of mobsters, so she has few places to turn for help.
4) The mob also has few connections with Belgian women. They might be able to scare up a junkie, but they can't use an MO of killing addicts all over Belgium in order to secure citizenship for hundreds of people. It would start to look too suspicious.
5) The Russian has a lot of money to pay and can demand what he wants. He may well feel more comfortable marrying a girl like Lorna who can be trusted to keep her mouth shut to an unpredictable addict, and he probably feels better securing his citizenship in a way that doesn't involve murder. That way, no one can pin a murder on him. (Perhaps he would object to Lorna if he knew more about Claudy, but wisely, no one tells him about Claudy's murder.)

[–] PoppyTransfusion 8 years ago

A Belgian woman born and bred would not have the vulnerability of a woman who obtained her citizenship via a sham marriage.

I'm scared of the middle place between light and nowhere