MovieChat Forums > Vals Im Bashir (2008) Discussion > Arab/Persian movie recommendations?

Arab/Persian movie recommendations?

posted 14 years ago by rlippman-2
16 replies | jump to latest

Paradise Now is next on my movie que and it will make a nice bookend to this film, once I get done watching all the special features on the "Bashir" disk.
As I understand it, Paradise Now shows second thoughts of would be suicide bombers missing their loved ones, hurting their families by their deaths, missing out on their futures. But I'm not sure if it deals with the larger question, which is really this:

When you first set off to air your grievances by deliberately attacking noncombatants, you set a mechanism in motion that leads to more and more innocents dying, including your own people. Moreover, creating an atmosphere of anarchy and political instability in Lebanon (so that Hezbollah or Palestinian commandos can operate freely and attack across the boarder) means sooner or later massacres like Sabra/Shatila are inevitable, whether by Israelis, Philangists, rival Palestinian factions or friendly fire, and maybe that's not the best we can strive for.

My question is whether, in mainstream Palestinian film, or Arab film, or Persian film, (or literature, or other art form) there is a recognition that regardless of the legitimacy of any original grievance, a cycle of violence takes two to perpetuate and suicide bombings (or lobbing mortars and rockets over the boarder or taking hostages, etc.) may actually be taking the Palestinians further from the supposed goal of having a peaceful, prosperous and stable homeland of their own.*

If there is a movie in the Arab world that addresses this question, I'd love to watch it and would gladly promote it to friends and family. I say that without any venom or sarcasm intended. I really would love to have hope.

*I recognize that according to Hamas and Hezbollah, the goal is actually the destruction of Israel and murdering/pushing every last Jew into the Sea. To this I say, each side has it's extremists and their positions are well known and beside the point. What I'm looking for is evidence of any movement in Arabic/Persian art that takes issue with that position and advocates for coexistence.

[–] tFighterPilot 14 years ago

Let me be blunt and say that no, they don't have any self criticism. And no because they don't have free speech, but because that's what they've been taught all their lives.

[–] ClockworkPomegranate 8 years ago

Kind of like a lot (and I do mean a lot) of Israelis. The "chosen people" thing is only literally believed by the super religious but it is shocking how ignorant and entitled Israelis act. They are taught that stuff from birth. Jewish lives are worth more than Palestinian Muslim lives, Muslims are savages and Jews civilized truly sad what they believe. Not to mention the lies about how the Jews were willing to "share" the land but the Arabs attacked poor defenseless Israel instead.

Consider Israel's history (Palestinian land colonized by the British who gave it to the European Zionists, even though it wasn't theirs to give away, who massacred and drove out the rightful inhabitants and called it Israel)and the policy of the Israeli government/IDF today (slow motion genocide of Palestinian Muslims)...and it is no wonder it is the violent *beep* up place that it is. It's not a normal country any more than apartheid South Africa was normal. It's sad to think that despite the genocide inflicted on the Jews by the German Nazis the lessons of "never again" only seem to apply to Jews, i.e. if it happens "again" to gentiles, that's okay.

I also will be "brutally" honest: Israel under the rotten Bibi and his gang of Jewish supremacists has shattered and destroyed the last sliver of morality Israel had left. It is no wonder the Palestinians are demanding their entire country back...look at where "peace negotiations" with insincere Israeli leaderships has brought them. Likud is making it so there is ZERO chance for a one OR two state solution. They are committing genocide. Bringing the kibosh down on genuine peace is deliberate. More Israelis (still not many, but a growing number) realize Zionism with Israel at its core cannot be justified and are moving away to the nations their ancestors came from. Nobody who lives in Israel on stolen Palestinian land can legitimately escape their conscience they say. And for good reason, as they benefit from the spilling of Palestinian blood. Israel has lost whatever legitimacy ir had and it can only blame itself for that.

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If u have a massively long sig, just delete it please.

[–] bztheman 14 years ago

I concur - the answer is No. Watch "Cult of the Suicide Bomber" by former CIA agent Robert Baer.

Moderates in the Middle East are silenced or pushed to the curb.

Hezbollah's goal is not the death of every last Jew or American; it is to remove obstacles to Iran's Shia dominance over the middle east.

[–] massiveattacker 13 years ago

cheers man, very well put.

[–] massiveattacker 13 years ago

try "Occupation 101"

and no.. it is not a one-sided view.

[–] rlippman-2 13 years ago

Thanks, I'll make that next on my Netflix que :)

Edited: Well, strike that...Netflix doesn't have it! Can you give me any further details? Thanks.

Edited AGAIN - Found this website: http://www.occupation101.com/

[–] massiveattacker 13 years ago

Also try to find the 14-part Aljazeeera documentary called "Hikayat Thawra" which translates to "Story of a revolution"

It might be hard to get but try googling it and special-ordering it or something.

It might be the most comprehensive documentary about the Palestinian struggle ever made.. showing multiple view points (England, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, etc) and also showing very rare footage and interviews.

and speaking of waltz with bashir, the documentary shows the norwegian journalist who was first to enter the massacre site that morning. truly truly horrific stuff.

cheers man, thank u for ur interest.

[–] rlippman-2 13 years ago

Thanks again. I watched the clips on the website. Powerful stuff to be sure. I have no dispute with the fact that life for Palestinians in the territories is very hard. But I didn't see where the movie showed Palestinians advocating for coexistence, as per my original question.

I guess my fear is that we are long ago passed any window of opportunity for resolution and it's all just endless victimization, finger pointing and retaliation. I hope history proves me wrong...

[–] massiveattacker 13 years ago

the idea of coexistence in mainstream culture (the non-israeli side) is very recent actually.

remember the real struggle actually started around 50 years ago. not thousands of years ago like they want people to believe.

i say wait a couple of years to find an answer for ur original question..

all the best

[–] massiveattacker 13 years ago

[–] walidb123 12 years ago

I can't give you any recommendations of films directly to related to your query but unlike much of the people intent on slandering the neighbouring countries of israel, there ARE films and documentaries from middle eastern countries which are heavily self-critical. Here are some which I've seen and really enjoyed. All happen to be Iranian Cinema. It's difficult getting the chance to watch films like these outside of the mainstream, but Iranian Cinema is quite popular.

The Cyclist by Mohsen Makhmalbaf
Crimson Gold by Jafar Panahi
The Green Wave by Ali Samadi Ahadi

[–] rlippman-2 12 years ago

Thanks so much! I've added the Cyclist and the Green Wave to my Netflix que and look forward to seeing them. No doubt with the Arab Spring, we're going to be seeing all sorts of new ideas coming out and being kicked around. I remain hopeful of the human potential for good.

[–] rlippman-2 12 years ago

Then sadly, I read this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/12/world/middleeast/irans-leaders-shut-down-independent-film-group.html?_r=1&gwh=CCDA1AC0D5E2605E53DDC8E69EEAF96A

[–] walidb123 12 years ago

That's unfortunate. I'm not sure how significant this is because even with this guild being closed Iranian cinema was still subject to much scrutiny by the government, but the film industry is still growing. The filmmaker Jafar Panahi while under house arrest was able to smuggle a documentary out of Iran called 'This Is Not a Film' about a day in his life as he awaits trial but his is the most severe case I've seen where the government has handed a heavy sentence.

Relating to your link I also found this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-16458859

[–] rlippman-2 12 years ago

Thanks. Sounds like Iran is going through its own version of McCarthyism. Growing pains...but in the end the people will prevail.

_______

A wrench to the head changes everything.

[–] Little_Louis 10 years ago

You should into the Iranian Director "Asghar Farhadi". He makes really interesting stuff.