MovieChat Forums > Vals Im Bashir (2008) Discussion > Not a film for international audiences

Not a film for international audiences


Having just watched "Waltz With Bashir," I think it's pretty obvious the film was made for an Israeli audience, not expecting it to have significant international success. There were just too many cultural and historical references that made no sense to me as an American.

Simply, I often had trouble understanding what I was watching. I did like how it was brought together at the end and yes, I felt like I learned something. But the movie was not "entertainment" in the least bit and I don't think I could recommend it.

It seemed more like a niche film geared primarily towards Israelis and -- more specifically -- IDF veterans. As I am neither of those, I simply didn't identify with the film. I could appreciate its artistic value, however.

6/10




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"not entertainment" "niche film"

What were you expecting when you went into this?? Surely its main point at an international level was to raise awareness and perhaps open the eyes of those who aren't familiar with the events.

Next time for the so-called "American" audience you claimed to be part of, they should dumb down such a film and just make it more entertaining with guns bombs etc should they?

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I guess a lot of people, not just Americans, don't know i.e. who Phalangelists are. So a little more background information wouldn't have hurt. And I don't think it would have 'dumbed' the movie down.

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[deleted]

How come some people think a movie HAS to "entertain"? Of course Waltz with Bashir is not "entertaining". That would almost be an insult.
I pretty much agree with joelski and I also think if you're not to familiar with the actual events of the film you could still see how it shows certain atrocities commited by people during times of war and such wich is something the whole world knows and should start thinking about.

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I actually think 'Waltz With Bashir' was extremely entertaining LinaliLi, I found it fascinating and beautiful. Not only did I learn a lot from this film, and gain an opinion on the events, I thought it was beautifully animated and scored. I would give it a 10/10. But I really enjoyed it. Does this mean i'm insulting it? On a primary level all movies have to entertain. Awesome film and I think extremely important for international audiences to raise awareness.

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Couldn't agree more. It think it's a beautifully made film, and yet, a very strong one. And hey, I didn't know what phalangists were either, but as soon as got home from the movie i looked it up on the internet and now i know (which was, i believe, the point of the film. It is clearly a denounciation film)

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it´s hard for american´s to watch movies with subtitles, wright?
I think the movie has a huge international audience. I´m from Argentina and it was a very popular movie in the last film festival.
What kind of cultural reference didn´t make sense for you?
I can understand americans like you find this boring.. but well, thank god you have Hollywood! And americans do love to remake every good foreign film so may be they´ll do the same with this eventually

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I agree. I'm from Colombia and I didn't know about the massacre before the movie.
But I got who the phalangists were since the very first mention. (Remember the talk about the "slaughter" house?)
Entertaining? Yes.
The animation is awesome and keep you interested the whole time.
You don't need to dig too deep to understand what the movie is about. Is not political, is not trying to explain or justify anybody's actions. It just put all the pieces together and leave the audience to judge by themselves.

10/10

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To the OP.

I believe what you mean to say instead of "Not a film for international audiences" because of that stated reasons being not entertaining and too many cultural and historical references that make no sense to you as an American; you instead mean to say "Not a film for people who don't link learning (either just a different viewpoint or history in general) with entertainment, or those who don't have, or wish to have much historical knowledge on a scale that reaches past their own country's". That seems to be more accurately what you're saying.


How did *I* identify with the film then, you may ask. I thought it was a very interesting portrayal of the effects of war on soldiers/men involved. And bloody well told! As a country, we are at war(s). And as a human, I am a man. Two for two there. I am also interested in stories and other humans, which this film contained.

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Seems you are accustomed to watch only mindless "entertaining" flicks, but you gotta understand that there are films that haven't "only" the purpose to "entertain" YOU but that also tries to make you think about a number of things and to open your eyes about some event in particular.
Movies 'per se' aren't for any audience in particular. Obviously 'certain' groups would feel more attracted by 'certain' kind of movies that are closer to their life-experience and concerns. BUT that doesn't rule out that people (many or just a few ones) outside of that group could find those movies appealing. I am not israelite, yet I found this movie quite interesting, just like millions around the world.

This movie is for anyone who could be interested on human behavior during war-time. On why such things like massacres happens. What starts them. How irrational they are. Why those who could stop them usually does nothing to do it. It makes you think about the level of responsibility of the people involved in such despicable acts: Who's more to blame, those who pulled the trigger? the ones who ordered to pull the triggers? those who could have stopped the massacre but didn't move a finger to stop it? Who? Why? How?

Well, my friend keep watching only "entertaining" films (Whatever that means to you) but stop generalizing, please. Perhaps this film wasn't YOUR cup of tea, but that's all u can say about it.

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too funny..

everytime someone doesn't like an 'international' film, they are IMMEDIATELY (in this case, the literal next post was insulting) bashed for it..

ha! what's even funnier to me, is that every 'hollywood' film viewed outside of america IS, by definition, an international film...i understand however, that as with most things america, it gets it's own designation - in this case, AMERICAN...as it should be...

in this case, the OP was not only justified in his CRITIQUE, but makes a good point...philangists? yeah, no shame in doing a google search for that one...did i know who they were? sure..but i'm me - brilliant and a student of the world while most of you simply whine and criticize...in the case of the palestinians and their conflict, it's not uncommon to be unaware of the intricacies of their plight for the simple reason that no one cares..if they were killing innocents for decades we still wouldn't care...

and before all the europeans, and other non-americans start opening their pie holes by my use of the word 'WE' just now, keep in mind, that the WHOLE WORLD doesn't give a damn about the palestinians...how many arab nations took in their displace palestinian brotherin after they lost their lands (twice by the way, in two wars STARTED by arabs)? ...wait for it....ZERO..not a one....the palestinians are obviosuly surrounded by other arab countries and they are given nothing but empty rhetoric for supports, they live in squalor......so waaaa to all of you that criticize anyone, american or ottherwise, for not knowing the minutiae of either the war in lebanon (yup, another fine example of middleeasterns playing nice with each other)




it is better to have a gun and not need it, than to need a gun and not have it

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Actually the Palis in the West Bank live better and have more rights than most of the Arabs in Arab countries.

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You may have had trouble relating, but you're just a civilian, arent you?
For myself and a handful of Iraq War Veterans, it was often like going back in time.

It really gave us alot of insight into how we had changed when we were there , and when we got back. For example, the combat and RPG scenes were very real to us (granted we placed more emphasis on well placed shots than the Israelis in 1982), as were the hallucination scenes. ( recall seeing the female form of death smiling at me, walking past us before our vehicle was blown up) All those things are very very very real. You see stuff like that, especially after periods of time. You know the tank scene , where they are singing? I was never in a tank, but i definitely remember the singing. Going home on leave, feeling completely alienated. Felt that one big time. What hit me the hardest was the little girl with the curly hair. I had somehow forgotten an incident where I came across a similar little girl who was the victim of an insurgent rocket attack. I remember after watching the film, how I had felt. Maybe for an international audience of civilians, it would be hard to understand. Hell, I cannot relate to people back home anymore. They have no idea what I am talking about or how I feel, regardless of how articulate I am. I think this one was although intended to be some anti-war Bulls***, came out as a "for the soldiers, by the soldiers" film that has definitely reached out and touched alot of troops of all nationalities.

This film I began to recommend to my Wounded Warrior Unit and Social Workers as a healing device. They have accepted a copy of it with open arms. It also gave my own family a little insight into the sense of war, from a young man's view. My mother no longer has to ask questions. She has a pretty good idea.

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It's not hard for civilians to understand this at all. The film rang extremely true to me, and I am most definitely not a soldier. Some people will get it, others will not, regardless of nationality and occupation.

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This movie came out in several countries, of course it had an international appeal.

I'd love to know what you mean by a 'film for international audiences'; I presume you mean superficial movies that have stereotyped depictions of events, and that are neutral in their intentions, so they don't offend anyone, so as many possible people will watch them and get nothing new out of them.

This world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel.

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Not a film for international audiences?

I'm from New Zealand. A long, long way from any of this.

I had tears in my eyes at the end of this film.

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I think what the OP is trying to say is that Waltz with Bashir is not a conventional “entertainment” movie. By conventional, I mean with a few heroes, plot twists, love interests...stuff everyone likes to see in a traditional entertaining movie.

I have to agree; I think this movie paints a picture rather than tells a story, if that makes any sense. Kind of like Faulkner’s "The Sound and the Fury." An artistic (and tragic) portrayal of a certain event, but not necessarily an entertaining read. While it can still be entertaining for some who are particularly interested in the sort of history, it's definitely not a Friday night thriller.

And yeah, I feel like I missed a few cultural references too. Still, I'd recommend it

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Perhaps you just have a limited conception of entertainment. Not everyone's idea of entertainment follows the same tenets that govern Hollywood screenwriters' cliched journey to success.

This world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel.

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I'm just saying "entertaining" isn't the word I'd use for this movie. Educating, enlightening, moving, but not my idea of entertaining. Mind you, "not entertaining" does not mean "boring."

It's kind of hard to put what I'm trying to say into words. To me, the word entertainment means cheap thrills. It's not even really a positive term. It's as if someone came out of a concert after hearing Beethoven's 6th Symphony and called it "entertaining."

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I don't think you're having difficulty putting things into words. I think you're just letting others decide for you the meaning of words. Entertaining is anything you do which is enjoyable, pleasant and worth your time. So yes, Mozart is entertaining too.

The problem is that you've let people convince you that entertainment is associated with vulgarity and low standars of quality. But Transformers could never entertain me as much Waltz with Bashir did.

This world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel.

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