We in Israel know it very well. This is the 8th time an israeli movie was nominated, and not a single win yet, despite the fact that 3 of the films won the golden globe.
The reason is simple - most of the members of the academy are jews, and they don't want to show their sympathy for Israel.
[deleted]
Know your history, the USA didn't help Israel until 1973. In any case, what does it have to do with the Oscar?
share[deleted]
"Who would want to set up a hostile enclave amidst a billion people and start upsetting them?"
Maybe someone who was just escaping from a continent that was MASS MURDERING their people in death camps. I think you're the one that needs a wider understanding of history.
[deleted]
Oh - so I guess in 1945 after having 6 million Jews murdered, my grandparents should have been like "Ok guys, lets give this living in Europe thing another shot!" No, I think anyone SANE would understand the need for a homeland that allows Jews the right to self-determination and self-defense like any other people in the world would want. And especially after having been the victims of one of the largest scale genocides in human history. Unless of course you think that Jews are somehow less deserving of the right to freedom and self-determination?
And furthermore, your anti-semitic conflation of me with other Jews as "constantly referring to the Holocaust" is beyond absurd. I mentioned the Holocaust because it was a direct answer to a question you asked, which was why did Jews suddenly decide to found a country in the middle of a billion hostile neighbors? You make it sound as if it was decided on a whim to invade a defenseless area and plunder it. The actual reality is that refugees from persecution all over Europe and Russia (the Holocaust was not the only time that Jews were persecuted), like my grandparents, had nowhere else to go. And the idea of founding a Jewish State to stand up for their rights and protect them from mass murder at the hands of their Christian neighbors, sounded like a pretty damn good idea given the alternatives (or lack thereof).
And you know what? Given the choice between: (i) being dead vs. (ii) surviving and being critcized by hostile bystanders like yourself, I choose the latter. And I think that anyone in their right mind would choose that as well.
[deleted]
Informative still also a fun read :-) *All thumbs up for Gina!*
share[deleted]
27,000,000 Russians died in WW2 along with 12,000,000 Chinese........if it is a numbers thing with you?
I understand that people from all over the world have gone through terrible tragedies and that World War II claimed victims of many different nationalities and ethnic backgrounds. However, the Jewish situation is different in that, after having been murdered systematically in concentration camps, it became very difficult for them to feel safe again in Europe. They had a long history of escaping oppression and felt at this point that they needed to make their place of origin their own at last.
In the end, despite the many deaths and terrible suffering that the Russians and the Chinese had to endure during the war, they remained in their respective countries among their people. They weren't a minority threatened by prejudice and genocide.
One may agree or not with the manner in which the Israeli state was created and one may condemn its politics and violence. But one cannot simply ignore this part of the equation.
It's not just a matter of numbers, as you put it.
[deleted]
First of all, I'm not Jewish. However, my grandfather did spend years in a concentration camp, so I can relate to a certain extent.
I never said that Jews are superior to you, to me, to non-Jewish Russians, to the Chinese or to anyone else. As I wrote in my previous post, I understand that people from other nationalities and ethnicities died in the war and have gone through terrible tragedies and suffering, too. I never said that those tragedies are any less sad or important. My grandfather's sister was killed by a bomb, and it must have been devastating for the whole family. It didn't matter whether she was Jewish or not.
I also never said that I support all of Israel's policies, especially the current violence. I think it's brutal and way out of proportion. Plus, it's counterproductive. That on itself is another topic.
What I meant is that the Jewish situation was indeed unique during the war in that they were the target of genocide and were exterminated systematically as a minority group. They were the object of very high levels of cruelty, singled out for scientific experimentation in labs. As you can imagine, that can cause an extremely acute fear of persecution.
I understand that a lot of them didn't want to stay in Europe to see what would happen next. You say the mass murdering ended in 1945. Who knew back then whether it would restart or not after some time. It's easy now, six decades later, to look back and see that it didn't.
Many immigrated to other countries. Others returned to their place of origin and founded their own nation, hoping to be safer there.
Did they have the right to occupy a land where others lived, even if that's where they came from? They were forced to run away from persecution in the past. Do they still by right belong there? It is a very complicated topic.
Now, this doesn't mean that I don't sympathize with the Palestinians. A very large number has been killed in recent months. And yes, each death is a tragedy. They have lost their houses, their neighborhoods. I understand that a lot of the fertile land in the region is in control of the Jewish and that settlements continue to expand. Palestinians want power and freedom, too. They don't even have an army with which to protect themselves.
I'm personally hoping that it can end in two separate states. But that's not what I was addressing in my previous post. All I was saying is that it's not just a matter of numbers. Theirs was a very particular situation and they felt they absolutely had to escape.
[deleted]
There is truth in what you're saying: the Nazis killed people from many different backgrounds (political, sexual, ethnic), and their focus was not only on exterminating Jews as a people, but also gypsies.
Indeed, there's been oppression and genocide at different places and times in history, and it continues to be the case. If we want to evolve and change for the better, we need to have sympathy for each and every case — including the Jews, which you don't seem to be able to bring yourself to do. Or maybe I'm wrong and I'm being unfair... It's just kind of scary how you talk about people who were cruelly brutalized and murdered as if they were only little numbers in a calculator, or perhaps just ants.
So if I may, let me ask you a simple yes or no question: do you have any sympathy for the Jews who died in concentration camps during the war, as you might for the other victims of the past and present that you mention (the Scottish, for example)? Or to word it differently, is there room in your heart for those Jews too?
[deleted]
[deleted]
ginafonyo, once again, I agree with some of what you say: having suffered from genocide doesn't give anyone the right to act inhumanely. Like you and many others, I believe that the Holocaust doesn't excuse the recent killings in Palestine. Again, each casualty is a tragedy.
However, I think that to a certain extent you contradict yourself. You reproach the Jewish for turning the Holocaust into abstract numbers, and yet you proceed to do the same. The way that you refer to the Holocaust and all its victims is too abstract and cold.
Even though you have made some valid points, there is arrogance in your words. Keep in mind that self-righteousness is dangerous and is a form of elitism, too: it's the smug belief that one is morally above the rest. In your mind, this belief seems to allow you trample over fresh wounds. It allows you to speak of the Jews with contempt, like you're automatically above them for not being one of them. When you say that "you cannot buy love off even a fellow Jew", it's hateful and offensive. When you state that "we have to make the world a safe house for all the children", I would start by paying attention to the words that you spit out. Those can be hurtful, too. Sorry, but you're not as high up there as you pretend to be.
The goal of remembering the Holocaust as a special episode in history is not to demand special treatment. It is about showing solidarity to the victims, dead and alive, and about making an effort to avoid similar tragedies in the future. Yes, what you say is true: it is ironic that the Holocaust should be used by some as an excuse to further commit atrocities, which is inexcusable. But not all who were affected by it have behaved that way. And while it is true that there are other examples of genocide in history, even in the present, every case is beyond special and should be respected.
I think you're mixing too many things together. You can be against the killings in Palestine and against capitalism, and still refer to the Holocaust with the solemnity that any such tragedy deserves. In my view, if you let abstract ideas distance your head from your heart, you end up doing the same thing that you condemn.
And by the way, I don't think the movie's aim is to excuse the killings commited by Israel. Precisely, the main message is that war dehumanizes and that murder and destruction are terrible, no matter who commits them and no matter who the victims are.
And I leave it at this, for I'm starting to feel too like I'm trampling over the dead.
[deleted]
Many of your comments are also interesting -- but it's important to be critical without being or even sounding hateful. Otherwise, instead of being part of the solution, one becomes part of the problem.
Anyway, thanks for reading my posts with an open mind.
didn't Operation Thunderbolt win?
BUTTON 08
''No, I think anyone SANE would understand the need for a homeland that allows Jews the right to self-determination and self-defense like any other people in the world would want. And especially after having been the victims of one of the largest scale genocides in human history. Unless of course you think that Jews are somehow less deserving of the right to freedom and self-determination?''
Hmmm, yes, because genocides really justify taking countries from indigenous people.
Sorry, if your people moved to Palestine to be part of that country (and some actually did...most Orthodox Jews in Israel did for a start) then it'd be easier for your point to hold water. But the fact that the Israelis created a racist apartheid state negates the point you were making. Genocides do not justify genocides or racism.
And yes, you should have stayed in Europe because, well, the NAZIs were overthrown by the Soviets and the Western Allies. In fact I have more respect for the Jews of the Autonomous Oblast who actually got an area of land that didn't belong to another.
If you hate Jesus Christ and are 100% proud of it copy this and make it your signature!
The reason is simple - most of the members of the academy are jews, and they don't want to show their sympathy for Israel.
That makes little sense. Hollywood has never been known for its subtlety or impartiality. When they support someone or something, they show it at the awards.
A more likely reason is that Hollywood is a community of artists, most of which are lef-wing, and they don't like Israel very much for the stubborn way it deals with Palestine.
I don't think this should affect the way they award movies, but that's life.
This world is a comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel.
well, also, this is a category where the academy is known for playing it safe... and departures seems like a pleasant (and really, pretty good, but I haven't seen it yet), safe choice.
some people said paradise now didn't win in 2005 'cuz hollywood wouldn't award a palestinian film, but I don't think it's so much a matter of nationality as it is one of avoiding controversy.
Thanks for reading, bye!
goodness! so now even the jews are paranoid about some jewish conspiracy. let it go, people. if you enjoy the movie, just recommend to others so they can watch it too. what does it matter if the movie wins an oscar or not.
shareseriously, settle down...settle down...you got three g.g. nominations...good for you, be thankful for that...don't complain about not winning an oscar for any reason other than cinematic...
this is a good movie..a very good one in fact...but it's definitely not oscar worthy...
it is better to have a gun and not need it, than to need a gun and not have it
[deleted]
While the movie was captivating and informative, I am not sure it was actually worthy of winning an Oscar. The decision may have simply been objective.
share