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GERTY's existence destroys the plausibility

posted 6 years ago by [deleted]
4 replies | jump to latest

So they can create something that can cut hair and perform very complex tasks, including health care, psychology and conversations.

But they can't create an AUTOMATED process for extracting the stuff from moon?

If you think about it, the whole movie becomes silly. A corporation with tech level high enough to create a GERTY, would certainly be able to automate the whole extraction process. Heck, it's already halfway (or further) there! The big extraction machines work automatically.

What is Sam really needed for? Which is cheaper, easier and more streamlined;

1) Develop automated machines to handle the -whole- extraction process, and basically do Sam's work. Surely GERTY-level tech could do everything that Sam is there for. His work doesn't seem that complicated. He basically takes a tube, brings it from place A to place B, then loads it into a pod/ship and punches a code to launch it. Why wouldn't a robot / automated base be able to do it? Combine GERTY with the already automated extraction machine and you have the solution.

*SIDENOTE* (any CODE to be punched in to launch the ship/pod/whatever that transports the minerals to Earth - if there's only ONE worker in the whole base (or the whole moon), why would there be a need for a code?)

*SPOILERS* (But it's your own fault for reading this anyway)

2) Create an enormous amount of clones that require certain temperature to stay alive, nourishment, all kinds of 'fakery', lights, oxygen, clothes, hobbies, sleep, communication, laundry, utensils, furniture, etc. etc. etc. that robots or an automated base wouldn't need. Then do this whole VERY complicated 'wake-a-clone-every-3-years'-routine to keep it all going.

Plus all the supposed 'ethical issues' (entity without a soul does not require any ethical thought, because only soul can feel pain, misery, suffering, joy, etc. - without a soul, a body doesn't feel anything. There would only be issues, if there's incarnation every time you 'wake up' a clone, but then every clone would be an individual, instead of 'Sam's personality'.

Just how much money goes to sheer maintenance, must be mind-boggling, compared to how streamlined the process could be if everything possible would be automated (I can't see a reason why Sam's job couldn't be easily replaced by automation).

Out of these two options, as a corporation that has GERTY-level tech, plus automated extraction machines, which option would you pick?

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago

To clarify; everything Sam is shown to do as his job, looks possible for a robot + retrieval car-combination.

Let's say they enhance GERTY mechanically a little bit, by creating more 'hands' and other handling devices, specifically designed to handle the tubes. That means they can do anything to the tubes that Sam can.

Then let's say they create an automated 'car unit' or whatever 'moon buggy' thing you would call it. It would do exactly what Sam does - clearly this tech is already in use, because the automated extraction machines already navigate the surface purposefully and intelligently, without problems (unless something crashes into them).

So the extraction machine would be designed to eject and push the tubes directly into the 'moon buggy retrieval unit', that would then receive the tubes (or they could be bigger containers that a human couldn't even lift, because the automated process would surely be able to handle heavier and clunkier loads this way) and drive automatically back to base, then eject the tubes and push them into some sort of easy-to-imagine retrieval system (a simple conveyor belt would be enough).

This system would be designed to move the containers/tubes into the pod/ship loading area, and load them into the pod/ship, and launch it, and then the whole process would start over again.

Why would there be need for a clone or a human with all this high-level technology? I wouldn't call it a plot hole, but I am saying the existence of high-level tech in this movie (GERTY and the automated extractor machines) render the whole, messy clone-idea completely silly and thus the whole story falls apart.

No corporation would ever choose the more expensive, complicated, controversial and 'unethical' process, when they could choose a cheap, streamlined, completely uncontroversial and ethical, easy and simple solution.

Once you get the system running, it could run automatically until it breaks apart (automated maintenance would of course help).

[–] Sacredpony (20) 5 years ago

Well, of course this is a movie and things happen and are, bc they are written so. Us trying to justify things after the fact is of course a fun sport.

Soooo. Let's postulate that clones are waaaay cheap. And these are movie clones and not real clones. There are animals and plants that can reproduce by essentially cloning themselves. Parthenogenesis is the word for animals. Ok. So they found a dead cheap process to grow some clones. Plus, they found a way to copy memories from a living person.

Who knows, maybe they grow the clones onsite on the moon in those cabinets. We only see one opened and that was the next one. So maybe only 2-3 clones are always ready for emergencies to wake up. Of course they use the receclyed material from the old clones for that ;-)

With that, I can buy, that they would use clones, instead of new people from earth, bc it is very expensive to shoot something to the moon, but cheap to only shoot the minerals back to earth.

But why not use robots like gerty or even better, several remote controlled automatons. This is not mars, the delay is very small and every improvisation you can attribute to human only, you can convey this way.

So a human on site would only be a good choice for the special cases where remote control is not possible due to damage and improvisation is needed. That the human could improvise when needed they showcased with him leaving base by tricking the robot.

I think it boils down to this: it was cheaper. The clones are not getting paid. A remote control operator would have to be paid and in an emergency, they might not always have a ship ready to detour there in time to save valuable corporate estate. Humans are very versatile and surprisingly low cost energywise. He obiously does not do "real" work, that is done by those harvesters. He is there as a failsafe. They might even be testing out long time moon habitats as a side show.

[–] chrisjdel (2714) 5 years ago

Most of the tasks they have Sam do strike me as simply a way to keep him occupied. So he isn't doing other things like trying to fix the live feed (don't want him realizing how much time has passed!). You're absolutely right: the clone's only real function is to be a failsafe. To repair software and hardware issues when they arise. Why not have a machine do it? Well, what happens when you run a self-diagnostic using the compromised system itself? Exactly. If there's a software glitch your mining equipment could start digging huge holes in the ground for no reason or driving across the lunar surface in random directions until they run out of power. You need at least one flesh and blood on site who won't be blind to what's happening and report back to the company that everything's A-OK.

Gerty was clearly designed as an expert system to dispense medical treatment and see to the psychological health of their disposable workers. And of course to execute any company procedures they can't let Sam know about. The fact that he seems to have become conscious was never part of the plan. At least he is smart enough to "play dumb" for the bean counters, while he sabotages their morally bankrupt little operation.

[–] ATG6 (3000) 2 years ago

Gertie is a mid-level AI, but his mechanical abilities are limited. He's okay rolling around in the lab, but would not have the agility or adaptability of a human if something went wrong.