Can we admit he's overrated?


I have all his albums, because for a while I bought into the hype. But if you listen to two of them you've heard all his jokes. And just like every other 'underground' comedian that gets full of himself, his rants started becoming more obnoxious and self-centered than funny.

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What hype?What jokes?There was never jokes.Or hype.Or a 5'th Fenrir.Daylight's coming,better get back under yonder bridge.

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No.

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No, but those of us who live in the real world can admit that he's UNDERrated.

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When even Baz Lurhman (as himself) takes inspiration from Bill Hicks (just watch his stand up act in the extras of "Romeo & Juliet" when Lurhman tells the story of when he first met the producer) it is hard to say that Hicks was overrated. His influence is everywhere.

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I think hes far from overrated. The vast majority of people have NO IDEA who Bill Hicks was, its generally only hardcore standup comedy fans that admire him. And i think he is underrated. And you have to give Hicks a break because his recorded material was only for a span of 5 years 1989-1994 so youre not going to have tons of material like other comedians whove been releasing cds for 15-20 years.

And his message is still relevant to this day. He wasnt concerned about being overly friendly or trying hard to make the audience chuckle, he said what was on his mind.

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You hit the nail on the head, a bit, with that.

Why is he called a comedian?

He started out as a comedian, in that he wrote and told jokes. But as he got more bitter and stuck up his own ass, he became more of a ranter. As you say he stopped being friendly or trying to make the audience laugh. He just said things.

I find that with all the 'comedians' who do this - Carlin, Bruce, Hicks, etc - there is a bizarre reaction of over-praising the abandonment of comedy for 'social commentary' which is generally pretty shallow and juvenile. But worse, they're still called 'comedians' even though nobody is laughing.

That's how I feel about Hicks. He had some funny lines. He was able to mix that with making you think. But as time went by, he stopped writing jokes and spent more time yelling and complaining about whatever bugged him, and as with most comedians of his type, what really seemed to bug him was not succeeding. It was this bizarre mix of projection and self-hatred for not being a success while trying to pretend that he doesn't care about success.

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But as time went by, he stopped writing jokes and spent more time yelling and complaining about whatever bugged him...

Which made me laugh my a** off!

I liked him better as a yeller and complainer (vs. standing up on stage telling jokes) because he said what I was thinking. For those of you who didn't like or appreciate it? Maybe that's because you couldn't connect with what he was saying. That's wasn't Bill's fault as a comedian or mine as a fan. To come to the conclusion that he was overrated because YOU didn't appreciate his commentary is pretty shallow and weak.

Get over yourself and start hanging out at the Dane Cook boards.




Oh, the usual. I bowl. Drive around. The occasional acid flashback.

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Yeah i liked him better as a ranter/complainer too. George Carlin was the same way, started out as a normal clean cut comedian, got a little bit wilder and ruder, but as his career progressed (especially in his last 10 years) he was more and more bitter and didnt hide his outrage. And personally, i think thats Georges best material.

It all boils down to you like him or you don't. Personally i think hes brilliant, Rant in E Minor is one of my favorite cds that i own.

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fenrir doesn't know what the *beep* he/she is talking about. where would hicks and carlin be without their 'angry' material? dolt

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You hit the nail on the head, a bit, with that.

Why is he called a comedian?

He started out as a comedian, in that he wrote and told jokes. But as he got more bitter and stuck up his own ass, he became more of a ranter. As you say he stopped being friendly or trying to make the audience laugh. He just said things.

I find that with all the 'comedians' who do this - Carlin, Bruce, Hicks, etc - there is a bizarre reaction of over-praising the abandonment of comedy for 'social commentary' which is generally pretty shallow and juvenile. But worse, they're still called 'comedians' even though nobody is laughing.

That's how I feel about Hicks. He had some funny lines. He was able to mix that with making you think. But as time went by, he stopped writing jokes and spent more time yelling and complaining about whatever bugged him, and as with most comedians of his type, what really seemed to bug him was not succeeding. It was this bizarre mix of projection and self-hatred for not being a success while trying to pretend that he doesn't care about success.


Bill Hicks's last album, Rant in E Minor was hilarious, all new and actually relied more on humour and wasnt as preachy. The part about the Easter Bunny was funny as hell.

Kind of sad because it sounded like he found a second wind.

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also, watching videos of him is a TOTALLY different experience that listening to the CDs over and over... Also, most stand-ups have their "act" that they repeat, then they make another "act" eventually, etc...

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People need to get over this "Bill Hicks just repeats himself over and over" thing. A vast majority of the recordings we have of Bill's act come from a period of FOUR YEARS. Of course we're gonna hear the same bits in a lot of those recordings. Comparing him to comics who recorded their performances for DECADES, of course it's gonna seem like he didn't have as much material. And if you listen to the five compiled albums (not the official or bootleg recordings that documents entire shows), there is no repetition. It just so happens that with Bill, there are more bootlegs than proper albums because he died so young, and didn't have a chance to continue touring and coming up with new bits. He couldn't release album after album of fresh new material. Because he died.

Comics work the road, and don't come up with a whole new set every night. They have their bits, and they perform those bits at every show. They improvise, and they evolve those bits, but they DO use the same material, more or less, in every show on a given tour. I still think it's interesting to hear Bill say something as a brief throwaway, then to hear it expanded as a four or five-minute bit on a later recording. But yeah, when you're listening to whole shows, you're gonna hear variations on material you've already heard before, because his albums are essentially compilations of his funniest stuff. And you're still gonna hear some bits that never made it onto the albums, so that makes it doubly worthwhile. You get to hear different versions of familiar routine, often with different punchlines, and also, you get to hear some things you've never heard before.

When I saw George Carlin live in 2001, he performed a whole slew of material that I'd never heard before. When I watched his subsequent HBO special, 90% of its content was comprised of bits that he'd done when I saw him live. Do I begrudge him this? No...because I understand how stand-up works. Carlin toured and honed his act, tweaked the bits as he went along, found out what worked and what didn't, and got the set refined to its best possible form, so that his HBO show would be as strong as it possibly could be. That's what comics do...they evolve their act. They don't perform a completely different set every time the get on stage.

If Hicks had lived on, and continued recording his performances for the next fifteen years, this would not be a point of discussion. He would have continued to write and perform new material, and there would be a lot more variety in his available performances. That just didn't happen because he died at 32.

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Overrated? Half the time I mention Bill Hicks, I get a "Who's that?" And yet, everyone on the fuc|<in' planet knows who Denis Leary is.

No, Hicks is the opposite of overrated.

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I got into Hicks on the wave of unending praise I heard about him. To say I was underwhelmed is an understatement. It's second-rate social commentary, third-rate 'philosophy' and utterly unfunny 'comedy' - to me, anyway.

Not surprised that someone's made the Dane Cook jibe at you. Such is the reaction of many Hicks acolytes when you dare blaspheme his name.

Obnoxious and self-important define him. But, to each their own.

the world would become a slightly better place with each dead lib - baelon

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"Not surprised that someone's made the Dane Cook jibe at you. Such is the reaction of many Hicks acolytes when you dare blaspheme his name."

WTF do you expect when someone comes on a BILL HICKS board and states that he is overrated??? You expect there NOT to be jibes??? You'd have to be a self absorbed, obnoxious *uc* to think otherwise.



Oh, the usual. I bowl. Drive around. The occasional acid flashback.

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WTF do you expect when someone comes on a BILL HICKS board and states that he is overrated???
A thoughtful, polite response, if you disagree with the notion. This isn't a fan board, it's a discussion board, and people are more than within their right to express either positive or negative feedback about movies, actors, performers, etc.
You expect there NOT to be jibes???
No. As I've said before, that's exactly what I expect of Hicks' fans when someone says anything half-critical. It's quite bizarre, really.

the world would become a slightly better place with each dead lib - baelon

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No. As I've said before, that's exactly what I expect of Hicks' fans when someone says anything half-critical. It's quite bizarre, really.

Okay, go to some Dane Cook "discussion" board like Good Luck Chuck and start a thread saying Dane Cook is overrated.

Then go to a board that discusses his co-star in Employee of the Month, Jessica Simpson, and start a thread saying she has no talent.

The examples are endless but my point is you will get jabs. Would you consider those to be bizarre as well?

I feel you're stretching a little bit to slam Hicks' fans. Just as people are "within their rights" (I didn't know this was a rights issue) to express either positive or negative feedback others are within their rights to disagree with that feedback. I don't find that bizarre at all, in fact I expect it, that's why I usually don't participate in discussions about movies or actors I don't like.



Oh, the usual. I bowl. Drive around. The occasional acid flashback.

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Would you consider those to be bizarre as well?
Frankly, yes. Why anyone gets worked up over entertainers they don't know seems an odd human quirk to me.

Though fans of Cook and Jessica Simpson generally don't see themselves as especially enlightened indivuduals, which isn't the case with many Hicks fans. Nor do Cook or Simpson fans promote those people as prophets or messiahs, to the best of my knowledge.

If the OP had mindlessly denigrated Hicks, then I'd not have a problem with mindless ripostes. As it was, it was a thoughtful post (and one I happe to agree with). It at least deserves disagreement to it to be equally thoughtful. Such is rarely the case on this website, however.

the world would become a slightly better place with each dead lib - baelon

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If the OP had mindlessly denigrated Hicks, then I'd not have a problem with mindless ripostes. As it was, it was a thoughtful post

Really? Saying "But as he got more bitter and stuck up his own ass, he became more of a ranter." was thoughtful?

How about: "...what really seemed to bug him was not succeeding. It was this bizarre mix of projection and self-hatred for not being a success while trying to pretend that he doesn't care about success."

Bill wasn't a success? Quite a thoughful statment. How does the OP define success? Staring in movies with Jessica Simpson? How about doing voice-overs for Ford Truck commercials?

You think his posts were thoughtful? It came across as opinionated garbage from someone who didn't find Hicks' work entertaining. Opinionated garbage dished out deserves opinionated garbage received.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree....




Oh, the usual. I bowl. Drive around. The occasional acid flashback.

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In regard to the OP; I don't understand how someone can say they were into something so engrossing, honest and ethereal as Mr. Hicks' comedy and artistic expressionism only to immediately backtrack and chalk up said interest to "hype". Now maybe I'm over-analyzing things a bit, but that sounds just slightly contradictory to my ears.

If you listened to anything that Bill had to say within the catalog of albums you claim to own and once enjoy and gleaned anything whatsoever of the message he was clearly conveying it would be impossible to characterize his popularity as hype. Either your statement is false and you're only qualifying your post in hopes of partially insulating yourself from ridicule, or you're simply trying to start a fire in the wrong backyard. Whatever the case, feel free to take a step or two back and reassess your motives. Maybe find a quiet corner in your own world and see what a little magic does for you.

Happy Trails fellow traveler.

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"He started out as a comedian, in that he wrote and told jokes. But as he got more bitter and stuck up his own ass, he became more of a ranter. As you say he stopped being friendly or trying to make the audience laugh. He just said things.

I find that with all the 'comedians' who do this - Carlin, Bruce, Hicks, etc - there is a bizarre reaction of over-praising the abandonment of comedy for 'social commentary' which is generally pretty shallow and juvenile. But worse, they're still called 'comedians' even though nobody is laughing.

That's how I feel about Hicks. He had some funny lines. He was able to mix that with making you think. But as time went by, he stopped writing jokes and spent more time yelling and complaining about whatever bugged him, and as with most comedians of his type, what really seemed to bug him was not succeeding. It was this bizarre mix of projection and self-hatred for not being a success while trying to pretend that he doesn't care about success."


I cannot name a comedian that does not base their comedy on their own individual socialization, generally in the form of critiquing. Usually, this is the recurring punchlines of their acts. It makes me laugh, but I know a lot of people that don't like it (not don't get it, just don't like it). That being said, what specific social commentary of Hicks would you consider shallow, juvenile, obnoxious, or self centered? I have my own opinions regarding his humor but have a hard time relating your opinions based on any of his bits I can think of at the moment.



"WTF do you expect when someone comes on a BILL HICKS board and states that he is overrated???"
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"A thoughtful, polite response, if you disagree with the notion. This isn't a fan board, it's a discussion board, and people are more than within their right to express either positive or negative feedback about movies, actors, performers, etc."

Your thoughtful and polite response;

"Obnoxious and self-important define him."

Kind of the pot calling the kettle black eh?



"I promise to start growin' dope again and get my life back on track."

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"Obnoxious and self-important define him."

Kind of the pot calling the kettle black eh?
Perhaps, if you can point out where I've been obnoxious and/or self-important. I feel I'm usually a quite reasonable poster who respects other people and their opinions, unless they're unreasonable to me and mine.

And I'll help you with the latter proposition: I'm not important at all.

"Can't help but feel for the guy, actually." - hariseldon99 on the Norwegian child-killer

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I did not infer you were obnoxious or self important. Your expectancy of a thoughtful and polite response seems insincere when you neglected to originally heed your own advice.

"I promise to start growin' dope again and get my life back on track."

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