Mistakes and anachronisms


At the very beginning, the Zac Ephron character shows that he can play a double-stroke roll on the snare drum. However, like most very young people today, he uses a matched grip, which would have been unthinkable for any drummer in 1937. The first time the matched grip came into general use (apart from tom-tom solos like Gene Krupa's on Sing, Sing, Sing) was when Ringo Starr (who is naturally left-handed but plays right-handed) used it. Certainly, it would have looked exceedingly odd to any musician in 1937.

Also, when everyone is waiting for Orson to show up, one of the stagehands responds to the question "Is Orson on his way," with the comment, "Hopefully, he is." No one would have misused the word "hopefully" like that in 1937 -- that kind of stupidity had to wait for the 90s.

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I'll take your word about the drum roll -- while I took drum lessons for a few years as a kid in the '60s I have no appreciation for the history of grips, as, I imagine, most viewers of the film wouldn't.

On the colloquial use of "hopefully" I think you may be presumptuous. I'd be willing to bet the word was used this way in the '70s (possibly by me), but that still gets us only halfway back to 1937. But I take your point. The movie doesn't work hard to use period language, though I believe Zac Efron does say "Swell" when he first meets Zoe Kazan (Greta Adler) in the music store. Anyone who has seen enough Hollywood movies from the early/mid '30s has heard this word used often -- and rarely delivered with anything resembling authenticity. (In a movie or not, did anyone ever say, "Gee, you're swell!" and not sound like a nitwit?)

The only mistake I noticed in the movie was probably made deliberately. When McKay and Efron take Welles's hired ambulance to the CBS radio studios you would imagine that if Welles really did do such a thing -- and he claims he did -- he would make sure the ambulance had its siren blaring all the way ... otherwise, what's the point of hiring an ambulance in the first place? (No ambulance is going to run red lights without a siren!) But, of course, there is no siren in this ambulance-interior scene because it would have interfered with the dialog and been a huge distraction. I'm sure Linklater hoped the audience wouldn't notice.

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(Spoiler to follow): If I were Welles, I might have fired the kid too, but only for doing such a lousy acting job onstage. Of course, it was partly Welles' own fault for not directing him properly. In the play, the boy Lucius is supposed to be half asleep in the lute scene--that's why Brutus keeps apologizing for making him stay up. In fact the kid falls asleep halfway through, in time for Brutus to see Caesar's ghost by himself. Fortunately, some of the real stage actors portrayed here were better, and in fact Welles continued to use a number of them in plays and movies in the following years (e.g., Cotten and Coulouris, both of whom were in "Citizen Kane").

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But Gene Krupa is exactly who the kid sarcastically says he is when asked. And Sing, Sing, Sing was used in the movie.

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[deleted]

Yes, Gene Krupa is the drummer the kid referred to, and "Sing, Sing, Sing" was played on the soundtrack; however, the tom-tom work Krupa did in that tune, using the matched grip, was a specialty. During normal playing, for instance doing a roll on a snare drum, as the kid and Norman Lloyd were shown doing, he and all drummers of that time always used the traditional grip with the left hand different from the right. The common use of the matched grip is a modern phenomenon and these guys would not have used it in 1937. As someone commented, most viewers of the movie don't know that; nevertheless, it is a fact and, in this film, an anachronism.

As for the misuse of "hopefully," I distinctly remember hearing it just as often in the 1960s as today. Linguistic stupidity is undoubtedly more common now than it was in the 1930s, but I'm afraid this particular one probably goes back at least that far.

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Biggest mistake and anachronism- casting Zac Ephron

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Jeez...I don't think his casting was too bad. I mean, I'm not a fan of his, but they could've done worse...

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[deleted]

According to Merriam-Webster, "hopefully" became popular in its "misused" state in the 1930's. And a kid cutting school and bored with English class was probably as likely as any to "misuse" it.

Regardless, I would hardly call it a misuse. It seems entirely common and has for a while - again, Merriam-Webster points to the 18th century.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hopefully

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If those two anachronisms--which are both pretty petty and obscure, by the way--are the worst you can find in this film, then I would have to say that Linkletter and his crew did a pretty damn good job of research. I think it's OK when a writer sacrifices a little anachronism in exchange for plot meaning or continuity (although I too hate it when a stupid one slips into a film because the director and the writers were lazy and obviously didn't care, like having a 1980's Cadillac parked on the the 1955 streets in Back to the Future). Fortunately, there's nothing as glaring in this film as showing the lefty Joe Jackson throw right-handed in "Field of Dreams", which incidentally got a 7.7 rating from IMDB despite being full of anachronisms. (Obviously the public doesn't care about this subject nearly as much as the pedantic members of the IMDB!) I mean even Shakespeare put a chiming clock in Julius Caesar, so if a drum grip was a little different in 1937, I would give these guys a break. And you have to say that Linkletter learned his lesson from Dazed and Confused, which is full of anachronistic cars, Coke signs, trash dumpsters, and whatnot.

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The drum thing is correct. Old school drummers would not have done a traditional drum roll that way. Even modern drums use the classic teqnique for that type of drum roll, as it produces the best effect that type of long, tight, drum roll. A a musician and former drummer, I caught that right away, it really stood out. But whoever said on here that most people would not have a clue about it, is correct.

As for the "hopefully" thing. Please, get out more often.

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Nobody spotted the modern thermos coffee container that's right in the middle of a kitchen to disappear a second later in the next shot?
Not to mention that 90% of all men have modern hairstyles.
And all women wore either no stockings or stockings without seams, both pretty unusual back then.

Does it matter?
Does it make the story or the acting of any less quality?
Maybe not but it does mean someone on this production didn't do their job properly and that is a shame.
To anyone with any knowledge of that period these are just a few more little things that break up the illusion of watching the past.
Every little mistake stands between a movie being a good movie or a masterpiece.
It what makes a movie age quickly and be dated in a few years or be timeless.

Complaining is almost as bad as complaining about complaining.

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[deleted]

Get into the house more. That's my advice.

Complaining about mistakes is almost as bad as complaining about complaining about mistakes.

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[deleted]

Such a civilised, gentlemanly reply.

To some, though clearly not you, creating a convincing authentic historical backdrop to a story is important.
Maybe you don't care about details or perfectionism, other people do.
You do not decide what is or is not a valid criticism.
It is just something I spotted and mention on a discussion board, not whining at all.

Authenticity IS important, it is part of creating a atmosphere for a movie, setting a period.
That is why a lot of time and money was spend on it in this movie and in other movies.
An authenticity mistake is just as valid as camera, light, sound or costume mistakes.

As for spotting continuity mistakes, lots of people do that and find it fun to share them.
You don't care, that is fine, I'm sure you have lots of things I don't care about.

Complaining about mistakes is almost as bad as complaining about complaining about mistakes.

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It is not a hobby of mine, I am just very observant and when I stumble upon a topic where people discuss such mistakes but miss one, I enjoy adding it to the list.
I work in the movie industry, there is a lot I pay attention to when I watch a movie.
I do not just look for mistakes, I just notice them unlike the average viewer perhaps.
Although the one I mention is pretty hard to miss...

As for authenticity mistakes, yes I do think that it is very important to get at least the atmosphere correct.
People like you may perhaps enjoy watching 1970s war movies with Nazi officers running around with long hippie hairstyles driving 1950s cars, till the 1980s we didn't mind medical shows where technical terms made no sense or were just made up, today we do better.
Other peoples are a bit more critical then you perhaps.

The mistakes I mentioned are pretty glaring, unless you know nothing about the 1930s.
When I spot such mistakes it does not make me satisfied and proud, it makes me disappointed.

Either way, mistakes in a movie means that someone didn't do their job correctly.
If you are in the movie business, this is important.

And I know a few critics, who do notice the mistakes but usually don't describe the exact details.
They just mention the atmosphere lacking or mention it when the historical authenticity is actually rather high.

Either way, it interests me and it interests countless others.
It does not interest you, so what.
Everyone I know cares about such things and most of those people are in the film/tv business.

You do not decide what is irrelevant.

Complaining about mistakes is almost as bad as complaining about complaining about mistakes.

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[deleted]

The historical mistakes in this movie are also not mere oversights.
Some of the hairstyles here were straight from the 1960s.

The critics describe the result the mistakes have on the overall movie, but they do notice and mind them.
And some critics do describe them, especially with historical drama, mistakes are often mentioned.

Yes, plot, characters and acting is more important and if they are really good, you don't care about the mistakes or don't even notice them.
But the movie would be even better without them.
Errors are errors.
There are lots of movies I like, many of those have mistakes.
Yet I don't pretend I don't see them and don't mind discussing them.

Complaining about mistakes is almost as bad as complaining about complaining about mistakes.

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[deleted]

"No one cares."

No, you don't care.
Big difference.

Complaining about mistakes is almost as bad as complaining about complaining about mistakes.

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[deleted]

And I don't care about people who are rude and who don't care about details, perfectionism and trying to make movies as good as possible.

Complaining about mistakes is almost as bad as complaining about complaining about mistakes.

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[deleted]

No you are actually rude.
And yes, of course the movie would be better if the haircuts were 1930s, I don't know anyone (besides you) who does not care about things that make movies more authentic.

Complaining about mistakes is almost as bad as complaining about complaining about mistakes.

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[deleted]

I disagree with both those statements.

Complaining about mistakes is almost as bad as complaining about complaining about mistakes.

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[deleted]

So are you.

Complaining about mistakes is almost as bad as complaining about complaining about mistakes.

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[deleted]

You should get out more.

Complaining about mistakes is almost as bad as complaining about complaining about mistakes.

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[deleted]

Just keep reading what you want to read.

Complaining about mistakes is almost as bad as complaining about complaining about mistakes.

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[deleted]

I can, but I have to get out more.

Complaining about mistakes is almost as bad as complaining about complaining about mistakes.

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[deleted]

Gee, when I saw this thread was 4 pages long, I was hoping for that many pages full of mistakes an anachronisms. I found about a half a page (if that) and the rest drivel. What a gyp.

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[deleted]

The most glaring of all: "...this whole business is based on BS" - Sonja during the poster marking scene at a bench outside

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