which president was worse than George W.? - W. (2008) Discussion

Carter and Obama

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Obama hasn't been in office for a full 2 months yet! how can you say he's a horrible president when he's barely done anything?

Impulse: I want a lawyer.
Lex: And I want a ponytail! Disappointment abounds.

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[–] OneFilmLover 15 years ago

I won't say Obama's dumb but the man is damn overrated.

He hasn't done anything and already every good thing that has happened in the past 2 months is credited to him.

(I got a great veggie sandwich today, OBAMA MADE IT SO!)

There. It's on the Internet. Thus it's official

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] mail-924 8 years ago

Obama was widely considered the greatest president since Bill Clinton in terms of how he helped the US economy and repaired the US's global reputation. He started a healthcare program, kept the US safe from terrorism, and repaired the broken US economy and helped get unemployment under control.

Cardboard Box is the Future.

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[–] munky_funky 14 years ago

Well, now Obama has been in office for almost a year, and he still has barely done anything. Now I am not saying Obama is worse than Bush, but I am saying that he isn't all that much different either. We are still in two wars, are government is still giving corporations huge amounts of money so that the executives can still receive huge bonuses even though they have lost money, and universal health care is the same pipe dream that it was under ole W. One year later and its like George never left. Next time, we should evict both parties from the white house.

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[–] MtnMan13 11 years ago

Now that we've suffered under almost 5-years of Obama in the White House (with three more to go, God help us), I think we can say without question that not only is Obama a worse president than Bush but he could possibly be the worst president in the history of the US.

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[–] dailyshampoo48 9 years ago

what a stupid and unnecessarily hyperbolic statement.

I haven't been around that long, but compared the last guy, obama stacks up pretty well.

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[–] Duke-56 10 years ago

from your comment in 2009 to now....now what do you think....are you getting your doctor, and cheaper insurance....or are you milking our government on the ACA or Food Stamps program.?

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[–] TheSolarSailor 15 years ago

People who say "Obama" in response to this thread are ignorant of history and don't really know what to say, yet still wish to participate in the thread!

* * * *
If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?

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[–] munky_funky 12 years ago

Personally, I still think GWB maybe the worst president of our current time. I still think that he's modifications to the SEC's powers have helped propel us in the current situation. But at the same time, to see Obama as being immune to these same problems is naive. Obama's first focus should have been on fixing our economy, not health care reform. He *beep* all of his goodwill on a platform that nearly killed Clinton in his first term. He should have repealed all GWB's initiatives that took away from the SEC's powers to monitor our corporate overlords. Now, he faces a corporate overlord that will even further weaken our standing before them. That is the only reason that I will vote for Obama this coming election. He may no longer be the candidate of hope, but at least he doesn't represent the candidate of corporate take over. At least not in one sweep. We really need new candidate for both parties.

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[–] Kariann1964 10 years ago

Personally, I still think GWB maybe the worst president of our current time.

Indeed, although his oil buddies and banking friends might disagree. Bush got us into an unnecessary war, causing millions of lives lost and horrific injuries. Our economy flopped during the end of his presidency. I have asked people who think he wasn't so bad to name 10 GOOD things he did in his presidency. No one has been able to get past three.

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[–] munky_funky 10 years ago

They were actually able to name three? I can't even think of one between him and Obama.

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[–] chiaro_di_luna 10 years ago

Thanks for a rarity in politics discussions: a thought-out post that is pragmatic, instead of dripping with partisan fervor.

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[–] goodthingsjohn 15 years ago

"Carter and Obama"
Here, here! Once the honeymoon is over, maybe people will realize.

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[–] sONOMArEturns (1253) 4 years ago

This is so telling of the time period. People calling Obama one of the worst presidents in history after just 40 days in office. I'm screenshotting this.

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[–] MSchlaf 15 years ago

Let's see:

James Buchanan: did next to nothing when the country was on the brink of the Civil War.

Andrew Johnson: derailed Reconstruction and was ultimately impeached due to some of his other deeds.

Grant: Johnson's successor, wasn't much better and his administration was rife with corruption and nepotism.

Warren Harding: his administration was mired down in corruption and scandals and had a Cabinet member go to prison for involvement in the Teapot Dome scandal. While not directly implicated in it, he wasn't looked upon too favorably by the public

Richard Nixon: Watergate. 'nuff said.

Yes, Bush 43 wasn't the best president we've had, and the man made a fair number of errors in judgement while in office, but he's far from the worst.

Just because you can do something doesn't always mean you should.

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[–] OneFilmLover 15 years ago

Nixon may have had Watergate but the man did a lot of great things for the country too. He pulled out of Vietnam (a JFK caused problem- now there's a candidate for most OVER-RATED president), he started many social advances, he entered talks with Russia and China, etc etc.

Nixon was a tough and effective President who just screwed himself over from his own plans.

There. It's on the Internet. Thus it's official

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] muzak_man 15 years ago

"Historians?" Who are they exactly?

American Enterprise magazine, 2002 study: Historians overwhelmingly belong to a "party of the left" (Democratic, Green or Working Families parties) versus a "party of the right" (Republican or Libertarian parties). Take Brown University's history department. Seventeen professors belonged to parties on the left, zero on the right. Cornell University's history department? Twenty-nine on the left, zero on the right. Denver College: nine history professors left, zero right. San Diego State University: 19 left, four right. Stanford University: 22 left, two right. UCLA: 53 left, three right. University of Texas at Austin: 12 left, two right. (1)

So what is Obama doing?

The current economic crisis was not caused by the Bush administration. Even Obama's treasury secretary realizes that. The crisis is caused primarily by too much debt -- both on the part of the private sector and the public sector.

What's Obama's answer?

Doubling the national debt, in addition to policies designed to keep people in homes they can't afford. This may make people "feel good" initially, but in the long run it spells disaster.

Since you are so interested in history in this thread, ask yourself this:

Obama wants to double the national debt, then claims he will cut it in half after two years.

When in the history of this country has any president ever been able to decrease government spending like that?

Even under Reagan when people moaned about cuts in government, all that Congress was able to accomplish was limiting the growth to the rate of inflation. Not a decrease! Of course the press called everything "massive cuts." They were simply cuts in growth.

Yet Obama is fooling people into thinking he's going to cut the deficit by half?

The truth is he just wants to redistribute wealth and create government programs that, once created, will never go away, and he is using the economic crisis to do this.

According to a recent poll (not of Historians, thankfully) people in Iraq now by a wide margin are in favor of having a democracy. And normalcy has returned to that country. People in large numbers are enjoying going to soccer games, shopping in the streets, and eating ice cream.(2)

Who gets the credit for that one?

sources:
1. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?pageId=64964
2. http://abcnews.go.com/PollingUnit/story?id=7058272

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] muzak_man 15 years ago

I can but your lack of specifics in any of your questions renders the exercise pretty pointless.

George Bush didn't force you into a home you couldn't afford or cause you to charge too much on your credit card.

If there is no price to be paid for bad behavior (ie. too many risks cause your business to go under or buying a home you can't afford results in you losing that home) then there is no incentive for people to make responsible decisions.

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[–] goodthingsjohn 15 years ago

Hitting the nail on the head, muzak man! Obama is a fraud and the American people are blinded by lust for him to realize what horrible decisions he has made and plans to make.

I'd also like to point out the circumstances of which Bush had to deal with. I'm not saying he was the smartest guy, but only one other president has had to deal with getting attacked on your home turf. What would Gore have done after 9/11? What would have Obama done? We don't know, but we can't be sure they wouldn't have acted the same way Bush did. BTW, the world is a better place without Saddam running around Iraq.

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[–] mark-1589 15 years ago

"What would Gore have done after 9/11?"

What an idiotic comment. Are you suggesting perhaps that Gore would have hidden under his bed or begged Osama to accept our surrender? Get real already.

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[–] running_blind5784 15 years ago

George Washington. Cherry tree choppin son a bitch.

it's a pornography store. i was buying pornography.

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[–] munky_funky 11 years ago

Your right. Obama is a fraud. He ran as the progressive candidate. Instead what has he done? He has carried on the policies of his predecessor. He has sided with the financial sector every time. Who do you think funds his campaigns? His health care is a joke. The only ones that benefit are the insurance and pharmaceutical companies. But at the same time, I would like to remind everyone of one of my favorite quotes of the Great Ronald Reagan. Asked about the increasing deficit he responded "I think its big enough to take care of itself." We need hardcore changes, and neither party is equipped to make them. We need to remove both of them from office.

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[–] dailyshampoo48 9 years ago

I have my own beefs with obama, but I don't think it was politically possible for him to have done any better.
I think the conservativism is less to do with personal values and more to do with a distaste for right-wing maniacs calling hiim a commie. or hitler. or whatever the *beep* it is these days.
prolly it doesn't matter what he does, he's already black. but one senses that at some level he needs to feel liked.

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[–] munky_funky 9 years ago

Thats were you are wrong. Instead of focusing his fight of Heath Care in his first term, he could have focused on improving the economy. No matter what his campaign said, the two were not tied together. Just like Clinton, he lost the battle on health care and weakened his stance in the election of congress. Just like Hitler not learning from the defeat of Napolean in Russia, Obama did not learn from Hillary's defeat over health care. He should have known better. He should have waited until his second term to address health care. If he would have, then we would probably have what we need (socialized medical care). Instead, we have some kind of watered down *beep* that only benefits the insurance industry.

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[–] dailyshampoo48 9 years ago

then there is no incentive for people to make responsible decisions
individuals have plenty of responsibility. too-big-to-fail banks with friends in congress, less so.

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[–] hanfuzzy 13 years ago

I think your statistical exerpt proves that Republicans don't study history, they just make up whatever they want to support their arguments. Which is only fair, because reality has a known liberal bias.

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[–] 9 years ago

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[–] weenjive227 15 years ago

People need to stop bashing James Buchanan, he was the only Secretary of State to become president, and like most Americans, he hated mormons. Now me personally I don't hate mormons, my aunt is a mormon. Also if he was a better president then Abe might not of won the 1860 election, and if that happend I dare ask you WHO WOULD BE ON THE PENNY??? It could be almost anyone... even Jimmy Carter, and who would want to see his face every day?

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[–] muzak_man 15 years ago

Why do you say most Americans hate mormons?

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[–] MysteryReaderReturns 15 years ago

They were a small polygamous cult at the time, of course they weren't popular. Now, they're just an annoying quasi-Christian cult that knocks on doors. We hate them when they knock.

http://dearsuicide.blogspot.com/ Where DEATH is still celebrated

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[–] muzak_man 15 years ago

Interesting. Of course "cult" is a matter of opinion I guess, but thanks for the response.

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[–] dailyshampoo48 9 years ago

personally, I hate them when they engage in statutory rape. but I guess that's a matter of opinion too.

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[–] TheDutchViewer 15 years ago

''People need to stop bashing James Buchanan, he was the only Secretary of State to become president''

Right... Never heard about ???

Thomas Jefferson
James Madison
John Quincy Adams
Martin Van Buren

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[–] alpeaston 15 years ago

Yeah Kennedy was probably as overrated as Reagan was. Yeah the cold war ended during his presidency but he also is the main reason we have the economic nightmare we are now facing. He was also responsible for not handling the HIV epidemic in a timely manor. If he had there might be 1000s of people still alive. So as far as overrated, Regan is on the top of my list.

and I will agree about Kennedy; he is right under him as another idiot who gave us Vietnam and a almost caused a nuclear confrontation with Russia!

As far as the worst president: Bush will win the award hands down.

1) Instigated a war with a sovereign country which had not, in any way, threatening us. (It was the Afghan Gov that shielded Ben Laden.

2) Allowed interrogators to torture people in American custody in Gitmo and other sites around the globe in clear violation of international laws and treaties WE signed.

3) He manipulated (lied) information in order to get agreement for an illegal war.

4) He placed in positions of power people who were not qualified and that directly caused the deaths of many Americans in the devastation of Katrina. (Case in point, considering Harriet Meir for the Supreme Court when she was barely qualified to practice law)!

5) Fired his OWN Federal prosecutors because they were not trying cases based on partisan considerations.

6) Only received his first presidential term through manipulation of the supreme court (with a decided republican advantage there). Oh how I wish gore had been allowed to win, imagine a world without the Iraq nightmare draining our resources, a world where Ben Laden was in Prison awaiting justice, and we were still considered the moral leader of the worlds instead of the biggest JOKE in the world!

7) His insane action caused our staunchest allies to leave us abandoned. The French, which took some very undeserved crap from America and Americans were smart enough to see that removing Sadam would not help the worlds stability but further erode it. These same actions allowed North Korea (which should probably should have provoked some military action from us because of their nuclear program) was allowed to develop rudimentary nuclear bombs which threaten the entire world.

I could go on.. but I will spoil my day by remembering why I hate him so much... His actions helped to flush America down the toilet!

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[–] dailyshampoo48 9 years ago

the kennedies were hugely overrated, and not nearly as liberal as people like to remember, but I suspect they meant well. I can't believe we elected an actor for prez! that pretty much says all you need to know about reagan.

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[–] sonnythefat 9 years ago

I think you Yanks have been brainwashed, It's Lincoln, by a mile, A million people killed, land pirate's Raping and killing, The destruction of the south,
And no whining "He freed the slaves ! If he was any good he could of freed then without violence like the British did, and don't forget the massacre of Irish in New York

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[–] 9 years ago

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[–] TheSolarSailor 15 years ago

John Adams (Our second President) was a paranoid man who planned on passing a law that prevented ANY news publication from printing ANYTHING negative about a President! This was just one aspect of the Alien and Sedition Acts. Thank goodness his Vice President used this against him to great effect and defeated him in the next election!

* * * *
If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?

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[–] zlyoung9 15 years ago

Adams also did everything he could to prevent Jefferson from starting a war with France. Neither of them are particularly wonderful prizes.

But, in terms of actually bad presidents?

Pierce deserves mention after mention, he only gets ignored because he had the good luck to be followed by Buchanan. Most of the presidents of the 20th century have been sleazy as hell in actuality, but the worst offenders are probably Harding, Hoover, Eisenhower (not personally Ike, just his reliance on John Foster Dulles) and Reagan.

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[–] thorisstrong 15 years ago

Both Adams and Jefferson struggled with the newly formed party system. Even through the latter part of Adams' presidency it was not considered political to be for a party, but for the people. Part of the issue with sedition and alien acts was that people that were supposed to be on the same side and fighting for the same cause were undermining him at every turn. Even the beloved Jefferson paid a man named James Callender to fire libelous attacks at Adams through the press. Not to mention the Fact tha Alexander Hamilton undermined him by trying to build a standing army in order to become the American Napoleon. I believe that his paranoia was quite justified in this case. While he was not a great president(nor was the almost sainted Jefferson for that matter) I do not believe him to be a bad president and certainly not the worst. Anyone who could hold office after a giant such as Washington and keep the burgeoning republic together should get the due he is deserved. A great book on the period is "Founding Brothers" by Joseph J. Ellis. It will help some of those whose opinions are less than informed.

"Perseverance and Spirit have done wonders in all ages"-George Washington

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[–] muzak_man 15 years ago

Anyone who mentions Reagan as one of our worst presidents has some explaining to do.

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[–] nigelgtx 15 years ago

The same moron mentions Eisenhower. I mean, come on...

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] muzak_man 15 years ago

Interesting as a liberal that you include Carter.

I'm curious -- in what significant ways would you say Obama is different from Carter and will be able to avoid his mistakes. Is he just smarter than Carter? Better advisors?

Because to me they seem pretty similar philosophically.

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] zlyoung9 15 years ago

I mention Reagan as one of the worst presidents because I believe that his ideological decisions have done America a good deal of harm. I do not expect conservatives to agree with that position.

And on Eisenhower, I'll repeat what I said initially. I don't have all that many criticisms of Ike personally, but John Foster Dulles and his brother were a disaster. Nation-building, at the end of the day, is not worth very much. And as for Eisenhower, it's also worth noting that he began the mobilization in Vietnam.

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] muzak_man 15 years ago

Okay good points, thanks. It will be interesting to see what happens. I definitely think Obama is a much more savvy politician and gifted speaker and from what I can tell his economics team seems pretty good. Time will tell.

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[–] Sheriff_Of_Nottingham 14 years ago

John Adams kept the U.S. from going to war with France.

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[–] heynow123 15 years ago

There isn't a worse president than George W., or at least not in my lifetime.

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[–] muzak_man 15 years ago

That's because you have the incorrect impression that a president doing his (her) job correctly should actually be liked.

If a president actually does his job -- which is to uphold the constitution -- very often he will not be liked, because what the constitution is saying is that you are responsible for your own life, not the government.

The president isn't there to give you things but to keep legislators from taking things.

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[–] mark-1589 15 years ago

Muzak Man wrote: "That's because you have the incorrect impression that a president doing his (her) job correctly should actually be liked.
If a president actually does his job -- which is to uphold the constitution -- very often he will not be liked, because what the constitution is saying is that you are responsible for your own life, not the government.
The president isn't there to give you things but to keep legislators from taking things."

For crying out loud, man, did you skip civics class entirely? Sleep through the whole semester? Your post is just a feeble attempt to restate the deluded opinions of Limbaugh and Palin. Where does the Constitution say you are responsible for your own life? Have you heard of providing for the general welfare and the common defense? That means been solely responsible for your own life.

But what I really love is the nice logic of "if you are hated, it's because you are doing your job right", you know President as hard-ass drill sergeant. You Bushies just create your own reality so that you can manipulate it so as to make Bush appear to have been good and decent, when he was atrocious and heinous.

I agree with you that the President is bound to uphold the Constitution, and it is in this respect that Bush failed most grievously.

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[–] SpiraMirabilis 15 years ago

Probably no one, but he's a great comedian.

The only way to get rid of temptation is to yield to it.
WILDE

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] pcyiu9 15 years ago

William Henry Harrison wins this contest, hands down.

"But he was only president for a month!"

It was his own damn fault he was president only for a month. He gave a 2 hour speech at his inauguration in freezing conditions and refused to wear a coat or a hat. Then he got sick and died.

-----------------------------
"I miss Giles."

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[–] mark-1589 15 years ago

Hey, TOOL, your tool box may be full but you've got a few screws loose. Are you really suggesting Clinton was one of the worst Presidents because of Black Hawk Down (a movie), in other words one bad day in Somalia. By the way, GHW Bush put us in there, just before leaving office, probably as a time-bomb present for Clinton. And 9-11? Perhaps you were on drugs for several years, but 9-11 happened during Bush's presidency. I know little boy Dubya wanted a year or two of on the job training before being held responsible, but it doesn't work that way. Jackasses like yourself are engaging in major historical revisionism - everything in Bush's presidency is the fault of either Clinton or Obama. Clinton caused 9-11 and Obama caused the financial meltdown. Do you really expect rational people to buy such nonsense?

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[–] tubman1 15 years ago

President Harding, in the sense that his presidency was pretty much a giant empty space.

In terms of actively destroying the world though, then yes, I'd agree Bush is probably the worst.

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[–] ichbinsisyphos 15 years ago

The funny thing is that president Pierce of Barbara Bush's family line, too, is on every "worst presidents of the US"-list.

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[–] AYGBADLD 15 years ago

There's never been a worst president than war criminal GWB, not even Nixon. He should be rotting in jail.

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] muzak_man 15 years ago

Why doesn't Truman make your list, Bob?

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] muzak_man 15 years ago

Very good answer. Thanks.

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