MovieChat Forums > The People Speak (2009) Discussion > What is it that's so polarizing about Ho...

What is it that's so polarizing about Howard Zinn?


What drew me in about "A People's History of the United States" was that it was apolitical. Though he never officially joined any party, many consider him left-wing because of his anti-war and civil rights activism (yes, he did march with communists in the 40s), but the narrative of his writings is great because it gives us a perspective of history as experienced by "the people" in a manner that transcends republican, democrat, communist, capitalist, and other camp ideologies. And what's great about "The People Speak" is that he gives a voice to regular people, not politicians and the elite (the big actors reading the lines are just there to bring in more viewers). There really was no other historian like him.


After seeing some of the threads on this board, my question is - what is it about him that sets so many people off? Give me rational responses, not emotional ones please.



"Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery?" -Carlin

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i think that should be fairly obvious... if you have bothered to read zinn and listen to carlin, i would think you must be aware of the general concept of how propaganda and patriotism make people blind (and aggressive - which many are raised to be towards anybody who isn't of their faith or nationality). as to how it works in detail (who does it why, how did it develop, why are people vulnerable to it, etc.), i would recommend reading and/or listening to e.g. noam chomsky and chris hedges.
though i would think zinn himself probably spoke about that...

some aspects aren't covered by them but unfortunately, i can't remember who the authors of various articles on media psychology and sociology i've read were. i'm nowhere near chomsky, who seems to remember everything he's ever read. i only remember the gist. which on this side of the story is that most people aren't raised to question but to follow (which btw also reminds me that you could also check out bill hicks about this for a more "light-hearted" look at it). the media (see chomsky for political connections) takes advantage of that by appealing to their emotions (fact-ridden articles are after all for the "brainiacs" but bill o'reilly "just says it like it is") and sense of self (here you have tendencies among uneducated people - as mentioned before - to mostly identify themselves through religion and nationality). and remember carlin... "what we are, is semi-civilized beasts, with baseball caps and automatic weapons". you just can't expect a lot from most people. or... even a little. no power and gas and the population would be cut in half within weeks.
i am just reminded of a quote by chris hedges that fits in rather nicely... he described a childhood moment with his father, a presbyterian minister - i only paraphrase here, since as i said... memory bad: "i asked my father what the difference between the man with three flags in his car and one with six was. my father replied 'the one with six is an even bigger jerk'". (and though he criticizes patriotism, he still understands and explains why people are drawn to it)

and of course... all of that buildup means that if somebody comes along and asks questions about what they've been told to never question or presents facts that would threaten to destroy that construct, they obviously can't have that. i mean imagine that... you build your whole life around an ideal. and then somebody comes along and questions that. that would mean he would question what you have been doing all your life.
alright... for a critically thinking person, that might not be a big deal. because most of those are rather relaxed when it comes to changing perspectives, admitting mistakes, etc.. but for the average person, that is too complicated, frustrating and confusing (again - brought up to follow).

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i mean just take a look at the links in other threads here...

"Arnove is a member of the Internationalist Socialist Organization, an anti-American, anti-capitalist, Communist organization" (from: http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/pmeister/2009/12/08/chart-the-howard-zinn-players-those-targeting-your-childs-classroom/ )

this is almost too ridiculous to elaborate on.
anti-american: you = american. bad for government/elite = bad for america = bad for you.
anti-capitalist: you want money. capitalism = money. anti-capitalism = no money for you.
socialist/communist: you = american. russia/europe/china not america (=bad). russia/europe/china use socialism/communism. socialism/communism = bad. (and of course socialism equals communism, everybody knows that...)

it is as if they are talking to preschool kids. and that is why the education system is in desperate need of improvement and that is why it is only going to get worse. not that the government (or the corporations who effectively buy it) is necessarily interested in elevating right wing crazies, i'm sure they couldn't care less... it's simply easier to handle people who just follow and fight among each other instead of against the authority.

well at least now i have found another interesting person whose lectures/interviews i can listen to while i work.

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Yeah, it really is fascinating isn't it, how many people seem to place every piece of information they receive as either evidence for against their own pre-conceived beliefs. And they're conditioned to think that way from countless public figures pounding them with the idea that everything can be boiled down to right and wrong, while of course nothing is ever so simple. It's funny how the article you cite seems to suggest that the film-makers (Damon, etc) are trying to re-write history, when the entirety of the program was quotes verbatim from undersung figures throughout history. I guess they're saying America is perfect, and always has been - end of story. Gotta love Breitbart.

"Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery?" -Carlin

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exactly... if the whole public mentality is based on the fact that america is perfect, you cannot ever criticize it. and of course that's a convenient attitude for the ruling elite - whatever they want to do is in the name of america and therefore perfect by definition.

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