MovieChat Forums > Vincere (2009) Discussion > questions about the end

questions about the end


*spoilers*

The last few minutes of the film (after her escape) were rather confusing and left lots of unanswered questions.

1. Why didn't Adelina and Riccardo retrieve the paper from the stuffed chicken and, say, take it abroad to have it published, or at least produce it, or a copy of it, when it was needed? What was the point of the film having them notice the hiding place if not to do something with it? Does Bellocchio have some source suggesting the wedding certificate was hidden away like this, or is it an invention?

2. Had the police been alerted to Ida's escape and descended on Adelina and Riccardo before they could do anything to warn her that she would be recaptured? -- or were A & R in on the plan to recapture her? Their demeanour suggests the latter, but perhaps that's simply because they're too cowed by the authorities to distance themselves from the others there (?).

3. Who was the guy who promised to let her see her son? Was she able to do so? It wasn't clear where she was being taken in the car when she left. We're then shown the young Benito in an asylum, suggesting this is at the same time and therefore he is not in the navy and Ida has been lied to. However, it seems from reading other sources that he *was* in the navy and only later put in an asylum (perhaps this is a timeline an Italian audience would be expected to know). As a side point, the film's portrayal also suggests he was genuinely quite mentally disturbed, whereas other commentary I've heard implies that he was put away for political reasons, like his mother.

4. How did the crowd gathered outside spontaneously know to assemble when she left? It wasn't really clear if their attitude was hostile or sympathetic.

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1 - Just one of the many inconsistencies in the story.

2 - A&R clearly were expecting Ida. Probably the police went to their house and told them they would wait for Ida.

3 - The scene with the policemen is very, very odd. The chief begs for forgiveness to Ida, I don't know why. I also cannot understand how can someone promise her that she would see her son again.
As for the son, probably the answer to your question is in the middle of the two theories you point out.

4 - That's the most stupid scene in the movie. First, there is no way the villagers could have known what was going on, as everything was kept in secret. Second, there is no way the villagers would support Ida against Mussolini. After all, we are often told in the movie that she was alone against the world. And third, a demonstration like that during fascism would be harshly repressed.

Bottom line: the story is full of holes. I wonder how can one say that this is a masterpiece of neo-realism.

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[deleted]

Have you seen GOOD MORNING, NIGHT you need to see that first to get the film-makers concept of cinema then it will be clear.

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SPOILERS

I'll try to answer some of your questions:

1. Why didn't Adelina and Riccardo retrieve the paper from the stuffed chicken and, say, take it abroad to have it published, or at least produce it, or a copy of it, when it was needed? What was the point of the film having them notice the hiding place if not to do something with it? Does Bellocchio have some source suggesting the wedding certificate was hidden away like this, or is it an invention?
Most likely an invention. The wedding certificate is the only element that has never been found.

2. Had the police been alerted to Ida's escape and descended on Adelina and Riccardo before they could do anything to warn her that she would be recaptured? -- or were A & R in on the plan to recapture her? Their demeanour suggests the latter, but perhaps that's simply because they're too cowed by the authorities to distance themselves from the others there (?).
First option.

It wasn't clear where she was being taken in the car when she left.
She was taken back to the asylum. In that last shot of Ida in the car you can also read some writings on the walls in the background: "Il Duce is always right".

We're then shown the young Benito in an asylum, suggesting this is at the same time and therefore he is not in the navy and Ida has been lied to. However, it seems from reading other sources that he *was* in the navy and only later put in an asylum (perhaps this is a timeline an Italian audience would be expected to know). As a side point, the film's portrayal also suggests he was genuinely quite mentally disturbed, whereas other commentary I've heard implies that he was put away for political reasons, like his mother.
This part is quite confusing and misleading, even for the Italian audience, since the story has been discovered only recently and nobody knew about it prior to this film. As I said before, Benito wasn't crazy, he was simply politically inconvenient and this was the only reason he was imprisoned in the first place. It's true, he was in the navy prior to the abduction.

4. How did the crowd gathered outside spontaneously know to assemble when she left? It wasn't really clear if their attitude was hostile or sympathetic.
They probably noticed the police. Nevermind dr-kandimba-1's reply: the crowd actually did gather outside and it looked pretty clear to me that they were sympathetic - one woman even hugs her.

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Thanks Caugusto16 for your input; apologies for the delay in replying.

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Don't worry. My reply wasn't exactly speedy either!

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I reply (to what I can) as an Italian who happens to live in Trent, thus 15 minutes away from Sopramonte.

'2. Had the police been alerted to Ida's escape and descended on Adelina and Riccardo before they could do anything to warn her that she would be recaptured? -- or were A & R in on the plan to recapture her? Their demeanour suggests the latter, but perhaps that's simply because they're too cowed by the authorities to distance themselves from the others there (?).'

Ida escaped on foot, presumably penniless, and without a way to let her family know she was coming, which would have left authorities all the time to communicate by the time she would reach Sopramonte in our Alpine land.

'3. Who was the guy who promised to let her see her son? Was she able to do so? It wasn't clear where she was being taken in the car when she left. We're then shown the young Benito in an asylum, suggesting this is at the same time and therefore he is not in the navy and Ida has been lied to. However, it seems from reading other sources that he *was* in the navy and only later put in an asylum (perhaps this is a timeline an Italian audience would be expected to know). As a side point, the film's portrayal also suggests he was genuinely quite mentally disturbed, whereas other commentary I've heard implies that he was put away for political reasons, like his mother.'

The man who tried to let her see her son was the head of Trento's tribunal. But it wasn't to be, as Bernardi (the head of fascists in Trent, and Benito Albino's tutor at the time) was in too strong a position to be challenged.
The boy was indeed in the navy, and lived free for quite a long time so that one supposes he was at the very least not as vocal as his mother. Eyewitnesses I've heard speak (Ida's son friends) say he was 100% sure he was Mussolini's child.
Oh, it's not to be missed: Benito Albino died after receiving 30 (yes, thirty) inslulin injections. If anyone thinks it was an accident, I have a nice Coliseum to sell...

A point not addressed in Bellocchio's film: only once Mussolini's good soul, his own brother Arnaldo died, things turned really bad for the Dalsers - and Italy, and Europe...

'4. How did the crowd gathered outside spontaneously know to assemble when she left? It wasn't really clear if their attitude was hostile or sympathetic.'

Have you ever lived in a small village? :)
The fact that the Sopramonte villagers used word-by-mouth to be at the scene, and loudly pleaded the fascists to let Dalser go, is a historical event.

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