What do you think is the solution? I always thought kids at an early age haven't realized yet that what others think doesn't matter. Maybe they could see what makes kids in Japan and China get good grades? It's probably that they know their country is messed up and that they're gonna have to struggle, so they bust their ass in school so they'll have to struggle just a little less.
shareThere isn't one universal incentive that will work for everyone.
Looking back at what would've probably motivated me more when I was a ninth grader...well, let's just say that while it would've worked, no supermodels would've gone for it. Incentives work only when the person really wants something. If they don't care, or if it isn't enough, then there is no point.
I think the biggest reason for the high academics in China and Japan have more to do with overall culture and role/influence of parents.
Students with the highest marks are permitted to shove the student(s) with the lowest marks into an industrial sized wood chipper. Hopefully the good students will choose not to exercise that option, but there's gonna be a few psychos that REALLY want to.
shareHow is Japan a messed up country?
I'm not understanding your comparison of China and Japan, Japan is a rich country with a high standard of living and low crime rates, its not a 3rd world or developing country.
Japan has been in a recession for the last 20 years, and China is rising to be a Superpower greater than America. Where have you been lately?
shareWhere would you rather live?
Japan is raked 24th in the world for GDP per capita, where is China? China doesn't even make the list of economic when it comes to economic freedom, Japan is always in the top 20. China has one of the most corrupt governments going and is a developing country, japan is already a 1st world country.
Japan is by no means perfect but out of the 2 I know where i would rather live.
It's a societal problem. In a country that values dumb jocks and gangsters over scientists and teachers, it's not "cool" (or whatever term the kids use today) to display intelligence and a desire to learn. Until young people learn that the toys and gadgets they distract themselves with are built by the nerds who paid attention in school and are now collecting nice paychecks, nothing will change.
shareIt's a societal problem. In a country that values dumb jocks and gangsters over scientists and teachers, it's not "cool" (or whatever term the kids use today) to display intelligence and a desire to learn. Until young people learn that the toys and gadgets they distract themselves with are built by the nerds who paid attention in school and are now collecting nice paychecks, nothing will change.
Agreed 100% Take a look at the study Dan Pink did on what motivates people. Time and time again the people offered the largest "incentives" perform worse than people that aren't offered incentives at all. That is because once the incentive is on the table, the task becomes less important than obtaining the incentive and the individual looses focus. Those kids didn't learn a damn thing the year they were paid for grades. They retained enough to do well on tests and then forgot that rote information right away. It is absolutely infuriating to me to see people continue to offer rewards like this even though they can see it doesn't work. That white kid that made the tattoo gun out of the toothbrush showed innovation and creativity. He proved just by doing that that he is smart. However, once he didn't get that reward the first time, he labeled himself too stupid to reach the goal and gave up.
Brilliant! I agree with what you said the most but also agree that incentives don't work in the long run if there is no inner motivation. Thanks to everyone for such thought provoking answers
shareVery true. It's hard not to notice this if you come from a different country. Teacher would ask a question and if you raise your hand to answer, it's weird, or if you ask a teacher a question or to explain what he/she's talking about it's weird. Basically anything that's normal let's say in Russia, is "weird" here. But in Russia it's not cool to be stupid either, they expect you to be social (popular), athletic, and have all A's as well, that's the ideal "cool kid".
Very true. It's hard not to notice this if you come from a different country. Teacher would ask a question and if you raise your hand to answer, it's weird, or if you ask a teacher a question or to explain what he/she's talking about it's weird. Basically anything that's normal let's say in Russia, is "weird" here. But in Russia it's not cool to be stupid either, they expect you to be social (popular), athletic, and have all A's as well, that's the ideal "cool kid".
Just like the question "Does a raise at work make someone work harder?"
That simple answer: No.
It's either in someone to want to excel, or it's not...incentives don't carry any long term effects.
The best solution is for a parent to be actively involved as a parent, and start at a very young age educating them, and working with them. Teaching them the fundamentals, and showing patience when they are young will payoff in the long run.
Just my opinion!
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Agreed 100% Take a look at the study Dan Pink did on what motivates people. Time and time again the people offered the largest "incentives" perform worse than people that aren't offered incentives at all. That is because once the incentive is on the table, the task becomes less important than obtaining the incentive and the individual looses focus. Those kids didn't learn a damn thing the year they were paid for grades. They retained enough to do well on tests and then forgot that rote information right away. It is absolutely infuriating to me to see people continue to offer rewards like this even though they can see it doesn't work. That white kid that made the tattoo gun out of the toothbrush showed innovation and creativity. He proved just by doing that that he is smart. However, once he didn't get that reward the first time, he labeled himself too stupid to reach the goal and gave up.
shareWell, memorization forgotten weeks later is how the entire education system works. They are far more focused on grades than learning (not the students, the whole system and society in general). That is what school is at this point. This is why in college students are given more books and papers to read than any human could possibly read, and then they are graded not based on any comprehension of the books, but mostly the re-iteration by the students of the exact opinion of the teacher. Leading most students to not even buy the assigned books, but just take notes on the teacher's opinion, memorize a bunch of facts before a test, and then forget it all the next day (recent graduate here).
So in that regard, and in others, if the incentive necessarily requires the person to do what the incentive giver wants them to do, then it's a good incentive.
Remember, not just raises, but any pay at all is a form of incentive. And if you think incentive doesn't work, then nobody on Earth would be working at McDonald's, pouring cement, or driving long hauls. Because those jobs are not rewarding to most people without the pay. Pay works, if it's done right. One very obvious problem with trying to incentivize students with money is the same problem seen internationally with people on welfare. They get it all for free anyway. It's not an incentive if they already have it.