The Canadian Criminal Justice System (SPOILERS)


The Canadian criminal justice system's performance in the Bagby case appears to be pretty dreadful and feckless.

For example, Canadian prosecutors find every reason not to prosecute an alleged child murderer, because the alleged murderer's act was against an individual, and not against "the collective", whatever that's supposed to be.

For us non-Canadians seeing this move, Is that how your system really operates?

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She was accused of murdering Andrew at the time. Things probably would've been different if she'd been accused of killing a child.

In my experience of Canada, visiting family in Alberta, BC, and Vancouver Island, the whole country had the same feeling that's usually only found in small towns here in the States. People are generally friendlier and more trusting and I think a sociopath like Shirley was able to take advantage of this mentality and manipulate everyone along the way. She manipulated the judges into giving her the benefit of the doubt even with the severity of her alleged crime. She manipulated her psychiatrist into putting up bail money for her. She manipulated the child welfare system into both giving her Zachary and creating a situation where Andrew's parents would be forced to talk to her and be around her.

I also wondered if the people in the legal system had enough experience with murderers to competently handle this case. There are only a hand-full of murders in the area each year (literally a number you can count on one hand) and probably few if any of those were perpetrated by a remorseless, calculated sociopath. That one judge you mentioned in particular seemed to think that if she had killed Andrew, it was just a crime of passion so she wasn't a danger to anyone else because she didn't understand what Shirley was and what she was capable of doing.

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The society in question is a sexist one. The victim is the male, the female is always exonerated of all crimes. Examples are mulitude. No need to dig deeper than the case of Karla Homolka. Minority politics help. This applies to all facets of life in Canuckistan.

my vote history:
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What are you talking about? The victims in the Karla Homolka case were women, you do realize.

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I know what I'm talking about, remember that case from a couple of years ago when a woman shot her husband dead because she allegedly thought he was a bear? Well she was set free in no time, probably bullying her new boyfriend now.

my vote history:
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[deleted]

Zenalicious, a yellow belly.

my vote history:
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He's talking about the Justice System in Canada. Karla Homolka - a person who assisted in the drugging, raping, and killing of her own sister - is now free. Her partner in crime, Paul Bernardo, is not.

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I think you are right about part of the issue being the justice system of this particular province being I'll prepared to handle this type of case. She was a woman in a respected field who hadn't committed previous violent offenses. I would imagine (and deduce from the judge's report) that it was assumed that this was a heat of passion murder brought on by specific circumstances and unlikely to be repeated. Unfortunately the judge did not understand that this type of crime is not about a heated moment that pushes a person too far but about a sick person who believes
that they are the only one who matters. On top of that, it hasn't been all that long since law enforcement, small-town or otherwise, began to really understand the danger of stalkers.
Just a horrific tragedy.

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as a victim of an horrific 4 man home invasion on December 2/04 in Barrie Ontario Canada. I can simply answer yes. this is a perfect example of the cold, dead, emotionless, hastily efficient to the point of the inane, Canadian Injustice system. THe victim is further victimized while sympathy and consideration as well as privacy are given to the criminals. One of the 4 were caught. Were I able to see a profile view of him in a mugshot I would have been able to identify him but the "privacy act" forbids profile mugshots. Yet, lucky guy, he got to see me in my underclothes whilst trying to murder my husband and I. Where was my privacy act?
He was sentenced to around 4 years which has automatic good behavior, whether he shows good behavior or not, subtracted and brought it down to about 3 years, maybe less. Police and legal systems treat you like you had it coming no matter what happened to you. I could go on and on and that is not even the only example of my being attacked and treated as the instigator. Even though I am very well known in my community as a volunteer with seniors and children both and have no criminal record, not even a ticket.
I am digressing because the murder in the film you are posting about is worse, of course, because she succeeded in killing two wonderful human beings and my attackers did not. Only because I was successful in fighting back and those poor males were not.

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The Canadian Justice System certainly isn't perfect. Quite frankly, I was embarrassed to watch this film as I am so often debating and harping on the corruption and incompetence of the American Justice System down south, and so it stings when I see the occasional example of such issues here in Canada.

However, let me remind you that it was not the responsibility of the Canadian court to prosecute Shirley for the murder of Andrew Bagby. The legal complications in Canada were centered around:

1) The long, complex extradition process to the United States (where the murder was actually committed),
2) Whether or not Shirley should have been granted bail while the case was playing out in court,
3) Whether or not Shirley should have had custody of Zachary while the case was playing out in court.

Ultimately, there was some very bad judgements concerning the latter two issues.

The horrifying conclusion to this case was likely the result of a number of factors. There was a great degree of small town incompetence and bad judgement in both the court system and within Child Protective Services. Then there was Shirley herself, who was a sly manipulator and was able to fool those around her into thinking she was not a risk to the public or to her child.

The film did a good job highlighting Shirley's nature, illustrating how easily she was able to turn on the charm and manipulate everybody around here. She basically used Zachary as a weapon to inflict pain on the Bagbys, and as a bargaining chip to negotiate from a position of power, all while appearing to be a normal, loving mother and a productive member of society (as a Doctor) in the eyes of the court.

As a Canadian, I wish I could say that our judicial system is immune to these sorts of flaws, but that would be far from the truth. These kinds of issues happen in our country more than we'd like to admit, as they do all over the world. However, I still believe that we have a better grasp on crime and punishment, and much more effective system of criminal justice in Canada than our American neighbors to the south. The rampant cases of injustice and prosecutorial corruption down there are one of the many reasons I feel very lucky to have been born in a country like Canada.



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Sane, measured and reasonable reply gets no response lol. You just can't beat overwrought with rational points, I guess.

I'm Canadian as well and agree 100%.

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