"The delhi massacre was no riot, it was a slaughter"
Ha ha ha ha.You should try to become a script writer.
"You havn't even done the research to back up your defense"
More than history,I am aware of the present.I am aware of the current living conditions of every community.You,sitting all the way in Vancouver,have no clue about India.
Lemme guess,you are a "proud sikh",but you like to be called Jazz instead of jais/jai.Yeah,you are all the same.
"Your distorted view of separatism is obviously deterring you ability to comprehend my argument"
Not my distorted view,but my anti separatist view.And the filth you puke out on these boards,does not deserve to be called "argument".
"and how the british were ready to hand it to the sikhs"
ever heard of a theory called divide and rule.Hell,the british were even handing the nizam of hyderabad separate independance.If it hadnt been for sardar patel,India would have been reduced to nothing.Maybe you should do some research boy.We are all meant to be together.In our diversity lies our progress.Why dont you separatist fools understand this.
"you think i want to divide your country? i just want the sikhs to have what was rightfully theirs""KHALISTAN ZINDABAD "
Is there any way on earth your contradictory remarks can make sense.
Try not to make a fool of yourself.
"The sikhs are living as a subjugated population in india,"
Again,an ignorant remark.I live in Delhi,and Sikhs are not at all "subjugated" around here,to say the least.If you go to Punjab side,you can see them in full glory.
"IM BORN IN JAIPUR MORON. My family moved to canada in 1986 while i was young "
Duh...dude..you dont know India.there is no way you could.
"If I weren't a sikh, i still wouldnt live in india..this country's a mockery of democracy"
I know India has alot of corruption.I know our system is *beep* up.But dude, its mine.This is my country,I was born here and I owe my life to this land.
Even I hate the system here.Bribing each and every govt official to get any job done,rampant corruption,bastrd politicians,communal violence...et all.
But all said and done, even if I get a green card,I will never be an American.
Good or bad,this country is mine,and I can try to be a responsible citizen.
I would rather live in my own filthy land than migrate abroad,call some other country home,and be looked upon as a IMMIGRANT for the rest of my life.
"manmohan singh was appointed PM by sonia gandhi cuz she backed out last minute after she won the seat btw"
Mr.Manmohan singh has always been a respected politician.He is one of the best finance ministers our country had.Our nation respects him for that.Its only while under congress was his stature diminished.But people still talk of amazing budgets he produced for India.
" your the terrorist..you'd kill innocent ppl just to keep your country from losing punjab"
And how did you arrive on that??pray tell.
"why dont you read some books a*shole."
why dont you come here,live here for a while,assess the situation and then open your mouth *beep* face.??
"just imagine you eating dinner with your family, then a hindu mob breaks into your house, sets it on fire, rapes your wife, smashes your childrens heads to bits, then sets you on fire."
Aawww..cry me a river darling.
With all due respect for the dead,I do not wish to turn a blind eye towards the injustice.But get this,Hindus were terrorised too.We all faltered.Both Hindus and Sikhs made mistakes.But there is no point in mulling over it now and carry vengeance.We all have moved on.
I am hindu,i have grown up with sikhs,punjabis,muslims.. and never did we have even an iota of hatred towards each other.Thats the case with most Indians these days.We all coexist,despite the sad mistakes we have made in the past.
Its because of Dumb effin moronic NRIs that this irrelevant issue has been raised.
"I dont wish anyone to die, i respect all religions...but i will fight for justice, and kill whoever needs to be killed"
Again,your statments contradict each other.Funny,even spending most of your life in an english speaking country,you find it difficult to articulate in this language.
Ohh...i know.Your type usually doesnt mingle with the non sikhs.You stay closely together.Most of you "revolutionaries" run small gangs on the streets of vancouver,ruining India's name.
I detest your type,you blathering bigot.
"Colorless green ideas sleep furiously."
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punjabiknight
16 years ago
ok, first of all, none of my statements are contradictory, yours are. Since you're living in India, why is it you're so cold-hearted when I state any info about the delhi massacre. It is because you know of no one who has experienced this. Your cozy life is granted to you because you are a middle class hindu, and i understand that (it makes you invisible to the gov't). "" your the terrorist..you'd kill innocent ppl just to keep your country from losing punjab"
And how did you arrive on that??pray tell", ok i will..by stating that "You all (sikh seperatists) deserve to die", you basically told me to go die to my face, how liberal and harmonious of you. What I can't understand is why you are denying history. And anytime i make a statement, you say i should "write a script"? wtf is wrong with you? And this, spoken like a true hindustani: "More than history,I am aware of the present.", of course you are, how else can your lack of learning from the past be explained. You say if the british had their way India would be reduced to nothing, then u turn around and state the hindustani sarkar is "Bribing each and every govt official to get any job done,rampant corruption,bastrd politicians,communal violence", ahahhah, sounds pretty much a gov't that isn't even functional. And i was not undermining manmohan singh you idiot, i was simply proving that under normal voting circumstances, he would not have been elected..the general hindustani public dosent care for his accomplishments as the finance minister, all they see is religion. When i depicted my accurate details of a hindu mob attack on a sikh residence in '84, you say "cry me a river"...and then state "With all due respect for the dead,I do not wish to turn a blind eye towards the injustice." your statements are so counterproductive that your bias is totally visible to me; saying "cry me river" shows very little respect to the dead- your pretty much a 2 faced person with zero compassion. And how many hindus were killed at the hands of sikhs?? prove the figures to me, i doubt you can; it is impossible to compare hindu-sikh killings to sikh-hindu killings in the same context. ahaha nazim of hyderabad? umm i think the muslims were granted a little country called PAKISTAN by the british. You dont realize the fact that i know sikhs will never be granted a homeland, the time for that was in 1947, and now it is too late. I feel no sensitivity in your words, so i know you have a "pathar dil", and any words of revolution, or freedom fighting wont do any good. A sikh homeland is an idea idiot, a theory..given all the events that have occurred in the past, this would seem the solution, only next to a full scale compensation and affirmative action for sikhs who suffered at the hands of the hindustani gov't - if that happened, i would have very little to say. the 1984 events occurred not very long ago..you make it seem like it was in the last century; the wounds are still fresh..just ask the victims, as you will find many. Another thing, i don't live in vancouver, i don't personally know very many separatists, and i have friends from a more diverse group of faiths than you ever will. And in my eyes, saying khalistan zindabad is equivalent to you saying "jai hind", I am not praising a physical sovereign nation obviously, i am exemplifying the idea of a sikh state..they're just words which carry on the essence of a free state. oh, and i don't call myself jazz you retard, damn..you sure like to state stupid assumptions of indo-canadians that just make u look like more of an illiterate to me.
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punditz
16 years ago
"Since you're living in India, why is it you're so cold-hearted when I state any info about the delhi massacre."
I am not cold hearted.I only think that there is no point in holding grudges even today.Ofcourse you cant forget the past,but to cling on to it, and cloud your judgement in the present is foolish.
"you basically told me to go die to my face, how liberal and harmonious of you."
How does my hatred for militants equal terrorism.I want the militants in kashmir to die too.Does that make me a terrorist?
"What I can't understand is why you are denying history"
Of course I am not denying history.I only wish to let go off it.
"spoken like a true hindustani: "More than history,I am aware of the present.", of course you are, how else can your lack of learning from the past be explained."
How is your statement supposed to help your case?Isnt it relevant to live in the present.??
"hindu mob attack on a sikh residence in '84, you say "cry me a river"...and then state "With all due respect for the dead,I do not wish to turn a blind eye towards the injustice." your statements are so counterproductive "
The cry me a river was only to mock you.You speak of atrocities of 84,you speak of history,but how come you remain quiet on the incidents that led to the 84 riots?How come you remain quiet on the fact that bhindranwale was merely a terrorist who tried to separate the country.How come you remain quiet on the fact,that his death was necessary,the execution at golden temple,although extreme was effective and unavoidable.How come you remain quiet on the fact that many hindus across delhi actually sheltered sikhs during the riots.
Sadly the venom of bhindranwale has seeped into you.Probably you grew up hearing one sided accounts from your family,from idolising bhindranwale..
"i think the muslims were granted a little country called PAKISTAN by the british."
So thats the reason to give sikhs a different countries.Next on the list,marathis will want a new country.Not to forget naxals/maos who want a gorkhaland.We cannot divide india.
"I feel no sensitivity in your words, so i know you have a "pathar dil", and any words of revolution, or freedom fighting wont do any good. "
So be it.Atleast my "pathar dil" nature allows me to see sikhs as humans firsts and sikhs second.Atleast I dont go around judging ppl from their caste and ethinicity.
But now,thanks to you I will probably.I will look at every sikh from now on and wonder if he is a terrorist and wants a separate country.Thanks jais.
"A sikh homeland is an idea idiot, a theory..given all the events that have occurred in the past, this would seem the solution"
No..It isnt the solution.
"And in my eyes, saying khalistan zindabad is equivalent to you saying "jai hind","
Despite all evidence to the contrary.
"I am not praising a physical sovereign nation obviously, i am exemplifying the idea of a sikh state..they're just words which carry on the essence of a free state."
I wish to exemplify the idea of a united nation.How is that??
"Colorless green ideas sleep furiously."
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punjabiknight
16 years ago
well i guess we agree to disagree then. I did make a remark about hindu families hiding sikhs in their homes btw, in my latter posts. And i don't idolize bindranwale, i idoloze master singh tara singh, who first proposed a sikh state in 1947. Bindranwale made a huge mistake fortifying a gurudwara as holy as harminder sahib. He is the reason they attacked; i have always said that he should has held his ground somewhere else. The reason operation bluestar seems so shocking to me is the degree of the attack the hindustani army had on harminder sahib, and how they attacked on a sikh holy day, and how more pilgrims were killed than militants. I never supported any group that supported using brute force to accomplish it's goals..thats should only be reserved for self-defense, but in the case of bindranwale defending himself, he was at the wrong place. And you use the term terrorist so loosely punditz, do you even know its meaning? A terrorist is someone who attacks the public without warning or consequence, to only produce terror. I can name a few terrorists...H.K.L bhagat, jagdish tytler, rajiv gandhi, the R.S.S., nearly 1/4 of the congress party..need I name more? And yes, i acknowledge there are factions within the sikhs who have used terror to accomplish goals, but terrorist to true sikh ratio is so small that almost all sikhs (like me, who follow the sikhism that is outlined in our holybook--in political terms, i am a conservative sikh, not a reactionary) strictly reject hatred or violence against innocent ppl. It is our tenth guru who stated to protect yourself and the innocent against violent genocidal brutes (in his lifetime, the mughals; and in ours, the the hindustani government --but why would you care, you think all sikhs are terrorists, just like the politicians in your government; you are no different from them as i can see). Those who kill innocent people to keep a country together are much more evil then those who fight the government to free their own. But in delhi 84', the government attacked innocent sikhs who didnt even want khalistan or sikhistan to begin with; the 84' massacre only led to a widespread hatred against the hindustani gov't, and thus many sikhs who initially opposed a sikh state began to support it (why dont you try pointing the finger at your own government, they are the ones who instigated the widespread acceptance of khalistan, not bindranwale, after the golden temple attack, and 84' massacre, people began to see the true colours of hindustan) And the sided accounts you speak of of 84', watch a few documentaries (even on youtube), and read a few books before you spill that B.S. to me. Oh and this statement (i'm not sure if your being coldly sarcastic, or just plain evil) "So be it.Atleast my "pathar dil" nature allows me to see sikhs as humans firsts and sikhs second.Atleast I dont go around judging ppl from their caste and ethinicity.
But now,thanks to you I will probably.I will look at every sikh from now on and wonder if he is a terrorist and wants a separate country.Thanks jais." --that has to be the most contradictory statement i've ever seen.
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punditz
16 years ago
"that has to be the most contradictory statement i've ever seen."
There is nothing contradictory in that statement.
Either way,I am done arguing with you, and I guess I will never agree with you.
So I am gonna sign off.
And I only hope,that one day in our lives we are able to erase all the hatred and co exist peacefully.
"Colorless green ideas sleep furiously."
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punjabiknight
16 years ago
I respect your wish for peace, as i too want the same thing. But it is not hatred of religion, caste, or creed that drives my obsession for justice and affirmative action, it is the hatred of the disrespect/disregard of HUMAN LIFE expressed by corrupt politicians and governments; these politicians and governments who poison the delicate framework of culture and religion which is india..they are ones who give me the incentive.
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