I have seen both version , havent read the book though , and the impression i get from this movie is that Eli is manipulating Oskar to make him kill people for her just like the old man did . There is a part where Eli chats with Oskar about that she knows he'd like to kill people .
shareShort version: Yes she loves him.
Long Version (my opinion):
When she meets Oskar she immediately knows that he is a psychopath. He would straight up kill his bullies (and maybe even more) without any regards. She says to him "We can't be friends" because of this and because she can't have normal relationships. She doesn't want him as her caretaker because she rejects killing people (that's why she needs a caretaker in the first place). Eli doesn't want a caretaker who kills mercilessly and without any regards for human life. But when she begin to know Oskar better she sees that he can be good and loving, that he just has some sort of dark side to him. That's why she says to him "Be me for a little while". Eli, despite her vampirism, is by nature a good person. If he follows the "dark side" and one day indeed be a ruthless killer, they can't be together.
Another example is the fact that Oskar always makes the first advances. She is hesitant, even cold (hearted), at first. If she would like to manipulate him, being restrained would be counter intuitive.
Last example: She came back for him and killed the bullies. She didn't drink their blood. She just killed them because they were hurting him.
The Simpsons is the best thing on american television.
-Steven Hawking-
What makes you think that Eli thinks that Oskar is a psychopath?
Like OOOPyrielOOO says, Eli loves Oskar. Not initially, of course, but during their interactions love blossoms.
I'd just like to point out that Eli is actually male in the film (as well as the novel), a prepubescent male. The love that forms between Eli and Oskar is not based on sexuality but one of being right for each other, like soulmates. As in "Let The Right One In" (this works for both of them).
"There is a part where Eli chats with Oskar about that she knows he'd like to kill people" - Igonzalobeas
Initially, Oskar was something that Eli has not had for more than two centuries, a playmate. He/She's a kid, not an ancient vampire hiding in a young body, and having a friend and playmate meant the world to Eli. As the story unfolds, Oskar becomes more than a playmate. When Eli has to flee, he/she assumes he/she can return to living his/her lonely life of mere survival, but Eli returns and saves Oskar. They run away together because they only have each other.
It's an off-beat love story (yay!), but a love story.
I have read the book, but I got all of this from the film on my first viewing.
"We never really grow up. We just learn how to act in public."
As all vampires, Eli is manipulating Oscar to make him his slave.
Vampires are creatures of evil, of the dark. They take lifes instead of giving and preserving lifes.
All vampires are extremely selfish and become cowards when their own immortal existence comes into jeopardy, like sunlight, garlic, holy water etc.
They are 100% egoistic and kill, kill, kill, kill when they are hungry. The exception is Oscar, because she needs him as her new blood dealer.
A vampire would never sacrifice himself for a human's benefit.
Exactly. People who see the manipulative take are filling any blanks in the story with the common knowledge of what a vampire is or how they have been portrayed.
share"Exactly. People who see the manipulative take are filling any blanks in the story with the common knowledge of what a vampire is or how they have been portrayed." - jidici
That's assuming all vampires are exactly the same, which just isn't true. They're not even portrayed as being the same; some only come out at night but others are daywalkers, some are held away by crucifixes or garlic while others are not, some can feel love where others are without feeling. Relying on portrayals of other vampires tells us nothing about Eli.Well Im pretty sure if you took a poll around the world about vampires being more good or evil, evil would come out on top. I mean they are literally metaphors for evil. Its why they exist in mythology in the first place. But there are other clues in the movie too like Eli dropping Hakan like a bad habit after all his service, including self torture, and after having a look of thinking about her next move, flies off to Oskars and jumps into bed with him, naked. Also Oskar is a lonely kid who needs companionship badly, whose hobby is pretending to stab people. Sounds like a young Hakan to me. share
"Well Im pretty sure if you took a poll around the world about vampires being more good or evil, evil would come out on top." - jidici
"But there are other clues in the movie too like Eli dropping Hakan like a bad habit after all his service, including self torture..." - jidici
"...and after having a look of thinking about her next move, flies off to Oskars and jumps into bed with him, naked." - jidici
"Oskar is a lonely kid who needs companionship badly..." - jidici
"...whose hobby is pretending to stab people. Sounds like a young Hakan to me." - jidici
Eli didn't drop Håkan at all, Håkan offered himself as a sacrifice because he could no longer help Eli, and could only possibly endanger him further. This was a scene from the book that was foreshadowed by Håkan's musings about real love being to offer yourself at the feet of another. Plus, you're equating Håkan and Oskar. You're suggesting that because Eli has little to no emotional attachment to Håkan that it follows the he has the same feelings for Oskar, but that view just isn't supported by the film.Yes he did offer himself up as a sacrifice but Eli just let him fall to the ground. Sure you could say it was so he would break his neck and not become a vampire but it certainly didnt look like something someone would do to a love one. She looked caring when she first visited him but after she got her fill she looked about as caring as I do when swatting a fly. Less actually because Im impressed with my aim. Eli looks like shes totally forgot Hakan ever existed a foot into his drop. Not even "what a loser", just...nothing.
Do you think that a prepubescent innocent boy is going to be enslaved by his proximity to what he believes is a prepubescent girl? A boy that doesn't really know what "going steady" means?Not yet. Who knows how long Eli has been around. When I saw it I had no idea about the book so there was no number, just "a long time". So when I saw how she could be manipulating Oskar I was thinking thousands of years. Just some epic story where Eli now is so skilled at getting her bloodgetter that she can show true love in her eyes and not really have a trace of it in her heart. And she knows EXACTLY when to push and pull to get him to stay, which explains Hakans devotion as well as his misery. So Oskar is clueless.
That's not a hobby, that's a release for his anger, a crutch for his self esteem. You're trying to make it sound like stabbing people meant as little to Oskar as collecting stamps would. I too fantasised about killing my tormentors, I managed not to become a Håkan, there is no path of causation there.I did too but its only one clue to be combined with the other clues, not evidence to stand alone. Even the book made a connection between Oskars violent fantasies and Hakans real violence near the beginning. share
"Yes he did offer himself up as a sacrifice but Eli just let him fall to the ground" - jidici
"Sure you could say it was so he would break his neck and not become a vampire but it certainly didnt look like something someone would do to a love one" - jidici
"Not yet. Who knows how long Eli has been around. When I saw it I had no idea about the book so there was no number, just "a long time". So when I saw how she could be manipulating Oskar I was thinking thousands of years. Just some epic story where Eli now is so skilled at getting her bloodgetter that she can show true love in her eyes and not really have a trace of it in her heart. And she knows EXACTLY when to push and pull to get him to stay, which explains Hakans devotion as well as his misery." - jidici
"I did too but its only one clue to be combined with the other clues.." - jidici
"Even the book made a connection between Oskars violent fantasies and Hakans real violence near the beginning." - jidici
Wait, I'm confused. When you said that Eli "dropped Håkan like a bad habit", I didn't think you meant literally dropped him, I thought you meant "dropped" an in "lost interest in".Well I meant both, its both real and metaphorical. You could say she dropped him like a bad habit or LET him drop like a bad habit but thats about how it looked like Eli treated him.
What makes you think Håkan was a "loved one"? It's clear in the film that Eli was using Håkan. Even though Håkan was being used there was still some measure of familiarity or gratefulness that Eli felt towards him.Sure it looked like Eli was using him but without an explanation why. Why would he subject himself to such devotion and hardship and torture without much in return? There was no answer given, so I thought and thought and thats when I made the connection and it all made sense. Eli telling to hit back and Oskar hitting back, to be prepared for future violence. The weight lifting getting ready to lift heavy bodies. The fact that Hakan sticks around for some un-given reason. The fact that Hakan seems almost jealous of Oskar. That as soon as Hakan dies Eli climbs into Oskars bed, naked, and snuggles. That Eli stays the same age and that soon Oskar will start getting older and they wont be the same age couple as is depicted in the end. Kids grow fast, in a couple of years they wont be compatible, just like Hakan is no more compatible.
But that's you imposing your preconceptions on Eli. If Eli was a master manipulator how did he mess up so badly when Oskar went to his flat? He just offered money to Oskar. That's not exactly a smooth ploy from a master in the art of manipulation.Again Im not saying its a foregone conclusion, I still believe Eli is good and true. But the above clue you gave is a drop in the bucket compared with the clues I just gave and you can chalk it up to Eli pretending to be awkward and un-knowing about things of humanity and etiquette, giving Oskar a feeling of superiority, a feeling of being needed. Like Eli saying "Im just a country bumpkin and dont know much about these city ways". Of course like a jerk Oskar totally used it for emotional leverage. share
Sure it looked like Eli was using him (Håkan) but without an explanation why.That was quite obvious, Håkan got Eli a place to live close to the food (a 12 years old boy cannot rent an apartment just like that), Håkan carried all the boxes, and Håkan was supposed to do the killing (which he turned out incompetent to). A clear employer/employee relation.
Why would he subject himself to such devotion and hardship and torture without much in return? There was no answer given...Håkan was in love with Eli, that's clear enough, and he was jealous of Oskar. The film also showed that Håkan fancied young boys, and Eli was a young boy, so I guess that's the reason for the one-way love.
That Eli stays the same age and that soon Oskar will start getting older and they wont be the same age couple as is depicted in the end.Try telling that to a 12 years old. Oskar and Eli did what felt right there and then, 12 y olds don't plan ahead like you do.
Hakan sticks around in such devoted misery and is dropped like a bad habit, both real and metaphorically, because he was where Oskar is nowThat is not part of the film. Håkan is shown as a totally incompetent killer, he cannot have been doing this for long. Which also is supported by the conversation between Eli and Håkan, that Håkan is a relatively new acquaintance to Eli. Not to mention the hints of Håkan being a paedophile..
She (Eli) was giving him the cold shoulder before that thoughEli was giving him "the cold shoulder" from the first moment, like any employee. The only time he didn't was when Håkan went to his doom, he had *beep* up so badly before, so Eli had started to worry..
That was quite obvious, Håkan got Eli a place to live close to the food (a 12 years old boy cannot rent an apartment just like that), Håkan carried all the boxes, and Håkan was supposed to do the killing (which he turned out incompetent to). A clear employer/employee relation.Yes I know, I saw a guy pour acid on his face today at work. So common.
Håkan was in love with Eli, that's clear enough, and he was jealous of Oskar. The film also showed that Håkan fancied young boys, and Eli was a young boy, so I guess that's the reason for the one-way love.Thats only clear in the book. I know thats how you feel but thats not what this conversation is about.
Try telling that to a 12 years old. Oskar and Eli did what felt right there and then, 12 y olds don't plan ahead like you do.Eli is older than 12.
That is not part of the film. Håkan is shown as a totally incompetent killer, he cannot have been doing this for long. Which also is supported by the conversation between Eli and Håkan, that Håkan is a relatively new acquaintance to Eli. Not to mention the hints of Håkan being a paedophile..Incompetent because he is getting old and doesnt have his heart into it anymore. And yes it looks like Hakan is new when Eli asks what happened to the blood but considering the manipulative angle, thats part of the terrible sadness that Hakan and eventually Oskar will be in too deep and lose his self respect and almost become a slave
Eli was giving him "the cold shoulder" from the first moment, like any employee. The only time he didn't was when Håkan went to his doom, he had *beep* up so badly before, so Eli had started to worry..But you arent seeing things through the manipulative angle. Its a complete picture you see all at once that makes total sense. You cant see it by nit picking these little things. None of your answers are convincing either. You need the book as a guide for the movie and that wasnt instructed by the movie makers for the viewer to do. By now as you can see, Im not the only one to see it. share
Yes I know, I saw a guy pour acid on his face today at work. So common.A film with a fabulous being is perhaps not the right place to start if you want something common!
Thats only clear in the book. I know thats how you feel but thats not what this conversation is about.Håkan fancying young boys is spelled out in the book; it's also in the film, but not spelled out.
Eli is older than 12.Eli is shown mentally twelve, sitting all alone playing with his toys and puzzles.
Incompetent because he is getting old and doesnt have his heart into it anymore.Håkan's disposal of Jocke's large and heavy body shows us the opposite, he's not old, and he sure has his heart into it. He just isn't a killer.
But you arent seeing things through the manipulative angle.The mere idea of Eli having to wait six years for Oskar to grow up - not even knowing what he will become of - rules that out.
A film with a fabulous being is perhaps not the right place to start if you want something common!My point is you didnt answer my biggest point which is that he poured acid on his own face without us knowing why. An employee gets paid for his work, I see no payment being offered.
Håkan fancying young boys is spelled out in the book; it's also in the film, but not spelled out.I agree he looks creepy but once realized the manipulative angle and see it is Oskar then Oskar will be creepy. Yes he looked at boys playing b-ball but that can easily be explained as him picking out next victim, which he did.
Eli is shown mentally twelve, sitting all alone playing with his toys and puzzles.Complex, difficult puzzles in which she can solve because of being alive so long. And she does them because of being alone so much. Adults do puzzles too. Not saying youre wrong just that that can be easily looked at as something an adult mind would do if in hiding to ease boredom.
Håkan's disposal of Jocke's large and heavy body shows us the opposite, he's not old, and he sure has his heart into it. He just isn't a killer.Hes got no choice. I didnt say he was completely ineffective, just that its harder and harder to do and thats when slip ups happen.
The mere idea of Eli having to wait six years for Oskar to grow up - not even knowing what he will become of - rules that out.A new Hakan is not going to take care of Oskar anyways so... Are you saying Oskars just going to go back home? Oskar has to take care of himself if theyre going to make it. Eli will have to do the killing but Oskar can move around during the day and find places to stay. Eli needs help for sure but the heavy lifting and blood getting will come later, right now its all about hiding from the sun.
Who are going to take care of Oskar while he is a kid? A new Håkan? Eli clearly cannot.
I see how you desperately want a new caretaker, but it just doesn't ring through.
The last scene on the train, Eli in his trunk, Oskar looking out on the blistering cold winter. The next day he will be out in there in the blistering cold winter all by himself, Eli some place sheltered from the light. He is a kid, and he has left everything behind. How do you see him manage?
Are you saying Oskars just going to go back home?That is one possibility. I see three plausible scenarios: Oskar freezes to death, Oskar gives up and goes home to mum. Or Oskar joins Eli becoming a vampire, that will protect him from the cold, and is the only chance he has to be together with Eli.
Eli will have to do the killing but Oskar can move around during the day and find places to stay.Perhaps for a day or two, before he will be run down and die from the cold, or being forced out in the open and sent home to mum. Or he has joined Eli in the day sleeping.
My point is you didnt answer my biggest point which is that he poured acid on his own face without us knowing why.Of course I did; Håkan was in love. Håkan was a paedophile, and now he had found a beloved one that didn't age. Think about it! When Håkan was so devoted to Eli that he was willing to kill for him, it is not strange that he wanted to protect him by pouring acid in his face.
Complex, difficult puzzles in which she can solve because of being alive so long.Yes, a fantastic idea, a two centuries old child that mentally never ages beyond twelve.
Hes got no choice. I didnt say he was completely ineffective, just that its harder and harder to do and thats when slip ups happen.Rubbish. Håkan was not old. A person that can dispose of a 80-90 kg dead body like that isn't "old" or sloppy. He just wasn't a killer.
I see how you desperately want a new caretaker, but it just doesn't ring through.Peace Drakkar, I know it bugs you that I have this opinion but thats because you had your special moment watching this movie and since we are all universes within ourselves, thats a powerful POV. Ive been guilty of wanting to push my agenda at the expense of keeping the story in a high place where it should be, not to say you have. Its ambiguous, I think we can all agree on that.
The last scene on the train, Eli in his trunk, Oskar looking out on the blistering cold winter. The next day he will be out in there in the blistering cold winter all by himself, Eli some place sheltered from the light. He is a kid, and he has left everything behind. How do you see him manage?Who says theyre going to stay in the cold? For all we know they are on their way to Italy, which is what I was thinking.
Of course I did; Håkan was in love. Håkan was a paedophile, and now he had found a beloved one that didn't age. Think about it! When Håkan was so devoted to Eli that he was willing to kill for him, it is not strange that he wanted to protect him by pouring acid in his face.But the point is is that there are only mild hints at his pedophile-ness. Yes hes creepy, yes its wierd that he seems jealous of Oskar but how am I supposed to make the connection that Hakan is a pedophile who is with Eli because shes endlessly young? Its a stretch to say the least. Now all his behaviour being explained because he used to be where Oskar is now, that makes sense with what is shown on the screen and it takes the story to a whole different place.
Yes, a fantastic idea, a two centuries old child that mentally never ages beyond twelve.Where in the movie does it say Eli is two centuries? This is a debate and you need facts if you want to prove your point in a debate aqnd nowhere does it say shes two centuries.
Rubbish. Håkan was not old. A person that can dispose of a 80-90 kg dead body like that isn't "old" or sloppy. He just wasn't a killer.He is what he is, somewhere between fifty to seventy. But its not just age, its his inability to pretend that all his effort is going to lead to something worthwhile. To me hes been living in denial all this time but the realization of what his life has become is affecting his job. share
Oh it's just me who cannot get my head around the "manipulative" take, when the entire film says, or should I said whispers otherwise.
Oh well, the film is nine years old, it's seven years since I visited Blackeberg, so I guess it's about time to call it a day.
Nice discussing with you, so long and take care!
For the heart life is simple. It beats as long as it can.
Hey jidici
For old times sake, I'm just wondering why no one who thinks that Eli might be evil ever talks about what I consider to be Eli's most maniuplative act:
To writ:
She climbs into Oskar's bed with blood on her mouth and tells him not to look. Why not just wipe her mouth?!
That's just a good old-fashioned power trip. It's like what gods do in myths: give a person a totally arbitrary order as a test of obedience. Don't open that box, don't eat that apple, don't look back. Isn't that exactly what an evil Eli would do to test if Oskar is predisposed to obey her without question? If Oskar had turned around, she would have known that he was dinner, not helper material.
Oh well, I love Eli, just think that scene is interesting.
Thats interesting. I cant remember that she said that but since she did, why else would she say it? To not look at her bloody mouth. Makes sense.
For the non-manipulative take I would say she had a bloody mouth because to me she always seemed disheveled, uncaring about her appearance or really anything. But why ask him not to turn around? Maybe her nudity?
"Sure it looked like Eli was using him but without an explanation why" - jidici
"That as soon as Hakan dies Eli climbs into Oskars bed, naked, and snuggles" - jidici
"you can chalk [Eli trying to give Oskar money] up to Eli pretending to be awkward and un-knowing about things of humanity and etiquette, giving Oskar a feeling of superiority, a feeling of being needed" - jidici
Did that really need an explanation? You mentioned before about other portrayals of vampires, I'm sure more than one have had a Renfield character. That was my assumption from the opening scenes; Eli the vampire, Håkan the Renfield. It became clearer later on that this was indeed the relationship, and that this relationship was completely separate to Eli and Oskar's relationship. The beginnings of Eli's relationship with Håkan are unstated and as such can't possibly be part of a known pattern of behaviour, simply because it's unknown.I thought Hakan was her father, her brother and yes, her Renfield but that all changed when I saw that he is the explanation of who Oskar will become in the open ended ending and that Hakan was once like Oskar is now. Matt Reeves saw what I saw and what Linqvist saw and what Alfredson saw, as well as the actor who played Hakan saw, all these I read in interviews. Reeves invented nothing. I saw what Let Me In hand-holdingly explained when I saw LTROI in 2008 in the theatres. It was pretty disgusting watching Let Me In EXPLAIN in detail what Reeves said he saw in LTROI when he watched it. This is why Ragnar, to me is so infinitely better than Jenkins because Ragnar said what was on his mind through his face and Jenkins just said it out loud like a dolt. No mystery, and no hellish lonliness that Hakan is going through seeing his love and all his sacrifice add up to zero in the end.
There are clues to Håkan's short time as a Renfield which would undermine the idea that he has been with Eli since he was a child; his incompetence, his obvious fear of Eli when he came back empty handed, his lack of personal effects. These are things that Matt Reeves "corrected" in Let Me In in order to make it believable that Thomas had been with Abby since childhood; his incompetence is explained by him being tired of all the killing and maybe wanting to get caught, he argued with Abby and defended his position when he failed to bring back blood for her because he knew her and knew she wouldn't kill him, they arrived in a rental van with lots of room for his stuff.
The point I neglected to make when you mentioned this before was that Eli is alone now, he doesn't have time to groom Oskar, he will need to feed in a few days. Oskar won't be able to fulfil that role for years yet, so what would Eli gain by playing Oskar now? Nothing useful. Also, Eli is suspicious when Oskar asks if he wants to "go steady", if Eli wanted to deepen Oskar's feelings for him he would have jumped at the chance to form a tighter bond, instead he only agrees to it when Oskar convinces him that nothing will change. Again, not the actions of a master manipulator.Its an investment for the future. Eli knows that only a young low self esteemed boy will be sucker enough to do what she wants for a long period. Oskars mind is more pliable and easier to manipulate and brainwash. Its a long slow process to get a slave like Hakan to stick around in obvious misery, never mind the torture. As we can see, Eli doesnt really need to get her blood either.
But Oskar was naturally insulted and suspicious when Eli offered him money, this is obviously a counter productive tactic when trying to manipulate people. Someone who has been around a long time and manipulated many others would know this and would avoid generating any negative emotions like the plague. Which is why I can't see that Eli was playing three dimensional chess with Oskar's feelings.I already explained that. But even more, then what happened? Eli showed up at Oskars door and almost sacrificed herself by bleeding to death and Oskars tough stance melted like butter, checkmate.
"Look I didnt say this is all 100% and as you notice Im not making you prove your points, just having to back up mine. I realize a part of it all was accidental but not sure if or at what part of the process Alfredson saw it and ran with it or only saw it at the end. But he did see it and even said so in the making of... in the DVD. Lets stop this because its obvious we have a personal view of it that we dont want messed with and my goodness I did the hell out of this subject a few years ago and havent convinced anybody, not that I want to. I dont want to change someones view of LTROI if its already a positive one.
And as I said I think Eli is good and true so isnt manipulative. I just think its a possibility and genius *beep*
Ill go one more exchange so as not to say the last word and close the door." - jidici
It's cool that you have a differing opinion, and I'm not trying to change your mind. If anything, these discussions are more about testing my interpretation against opposing ideas, so far no-one has sold me on the evil Eli is manipulating Oskar into becoming his next Renfield theory. Maybe I'm a hopeless romantic.And Im probably hopelessly sarcastic and pessimistic.
I'll miss this place when it's gone.
Hi, Jameron.
I read some of your comments about Lina Leandersson, Låt den rätte komma in and other topics and find it very interesting and wise.
As this message board / forum on Imdb will close down soon, are there any other places that you discuss about Literature, Lina and and movies subjects? Any other place that you can be reached?
I'll miss this place too. I do not post much here, but I read some comments. It's a pity that will be finished at sometime.
I use to read something at the forum " We - The Infected" ( A forum to discuss John Ajvide Lindqvist's novel and films based on it . Are you in that place?
Thanks for your time.
Best regards.
Hej.
Yes, I'm a member of We The Infected, under the same name ... Jameron.
Basically I only really post here and at We The Infected. Sadly there is very little left to discuss about Let The Right One In (2008) that hasn't been covered many times already. Although there is a tv show in the making that might raise some interesting topics, if it gets past the pilot stage.
There is a new board being made at http://imdb2.freeforums.net/ but the owners are in the process of creating another board on a different domain with an idea to replace the first one. Unfortunately it doesn't have the same structure as IMDB and I think discussions will get "lost in the crowd" so to speak.
Once the dust has settled I'll likely make We The Infected aware of a new discussion forum, but I don't think anything is going to quite like IMDB :(
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE
http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story