MovieChat Forums > Blood River (2009) Discussion > Angel or Demon? Anyone notice the cross...

Angel or Demon? Anyone notice the crosses on the women's heads?


I have a few different ideas here. Curious as to what you all think. I was brought up in a very religious household, though I'm not very religious now, it just gave me a different perspective. As I watched this a second time, I paid closer attention to certain scenes.

Ok so my first thought.... if you look at the cross on the first woman's forehead, it looks to be upside down, which is a sign of the devil. Is he marking her as evil, or is he claiming her?

If you look at the mark he left on Summer, it is very hard to make out where the cross line is. At times it looked more like + than a cross. Was it upside down too?

Now as for the woman from the hotel, we don't know what her 'sins' are, other than she appears to be too flirty. But all we actually saw was that she was nothing but friendly. Also, suicide is a sin. So why would an angel encourage someone to take their own life? But I know a demon would. What if her future into heaven was unclear? What is one good way to assure her path to hell?

Next target, the couple. All we can see for sure is that they do love each other and appear to be a sweet couple. What if a demon wanted to insure their path to hell?

Some things I picked up on: Joseph uses the word Hell quite a few times. He also seems to be quite comfortable in the heat!

He lies to Clark when he tells him he'll keep his little secret about the odds of them getting rescued. Also it's the first time we hear about secrets. Maybe that's the first seed of doubt being planted?

As they are sitting around the fire, he offers her the alcohol and says, "Are you sure I can't tempt you?" A clue?

During their campfire conversation, Joseph says he pictures himself as a king and his papa gives a damn about him. The devil lies to his demons, says if he serves him well they will serve as kings by his side?

Also he says what he does has a very definite start and very definite end. Could the end refer to when he gets his marks to commit themselves to hell?

The gun scene when he has Summer pointing the gun at Clark, he says 'Bang! Victim goes down." Maybe I'm reading too much into that?

Clark and Joseph's little road trip, Joseph goes off on a rant about Clark's job, as if Clark is thumbing his nose at the world or something. Then he ended it with "I light the fires in your cities!" Sounds more like a demon statement to me. Then he goes on later about Clark having a nice little house etc as if there is something evil about having a job and a house and a family.

At the car, all the talk about him repenting had me a bit confused at first. As did Clark finding Benny's body in the trunk. Clark seemed genuinely upset over the death.

Then I did have a thought. What if the secret was that Clark knew that something horrible had happened to Benny, but he wasn't the one who did it. Maybe that is why they were going to see her parents. So she had family around when she found out. And Maybe that's why he couldn't say. Why he kept saying he couldn't tell her. Joseph's work with Clark was done when he was sure Clark would continue to lie to Summer. And after all his taunting, he knew Clark would commit himself to hell when he returned by torturing Joseph. Which is why he left all those tempting tools on the table for him.

The record talked all about the devil in many forms, including animal. Did he come from the dog which Summer found dead? Possessed the body he has now?

BTW regarding his judgement...in the Bible judgement day doesn't come until you die.

He continued to goad Joseph so Summer could see Clark do things she didn't agree with. Planting more seeds of doubt.

Also another lie, he said he would get them out of there if he could show them something first. He was never going to get them out of there.

The crosses for graves could just all be part of his ruse. All the righteous and hail Mary talk, sheepskin to cover his wolf parts. Getting Summer to believe that she was supposed to commit murder. Doubting and killing her husband. An angel advocating murder?

We never did know what Clark's secret actually was. Maybe it was a secret protecting her. Joseph knew he would never tell. All he had to do was play on her doubt.

And he stuck to his ruse even to the ending. Trying to convince us that he's a good guy so we'll open our doors to him and play along. Tempting us like the serpent to Eve.

Then again, maybe I'm just playing Devil's advocate and he is really an angel?

I enjoyed that this movie could have me switching sides every 5 minutes. I didn't find it predictable at all, which is something that I've come to find in most movies.

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Also what kind of an angel rapes a married pregnant woman? I know it didn't show a lot of what happened but he had her pinned against the wall and her begging him not to. Him saying that now that he PLANTED HIS SEED that it would be like the baby was his. I haven't saw hardly anyone mention him forcing himself on her! I thought it was pretty obvious myself!

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What makes it even weirder is that I thought it would have been a better film if Joseph's true nature was left ambiguous, but according to the director Joseph is meant to be an angel (or perhaps archangel) and that the film stems from his having been raised religious. I'm paraphrasing but he says that the 'fundamentals are there' and the film is meant to be 'very old testament' or something like that.

I know angels aren't necessarily 'good' as most people think of them but I think the implications of an angel raping a woman are pretty bizarre any way you look at this.

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"It's better not to know so much about what things mean." David Lynch

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what kind of an angel rapes a married pregnant woman?
Man, everyone seems to think he raped her. He didn't! All he did was put his hand on her to claim the baby as his own.

Conform or be cast out

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A case could be made for either. I tend to think he was actually an angel. But for an angel, he certainly wasn't very angelic acting, which could have been intentional to throw off the viewer.

Conform or be cast out

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A good angel wouldn't be seducing women while constantly drinking and smoking, sorry.

They were going across state to tell her parents that they were pregnant and now married.

Jacob seduces the bartender and through his actions she dies.
He is not good.

My problem is how they don't recognize him as the guy they didn't pick up to know his story about a broken down car.

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