Possible Plot Hole (Spoiler) - Duplicity (2009) Discussion

[–] Harvestmoonman13 15 years ago

Perhaps they didn't want to risk another person stealing it? I can see this with julia and clive but yeah Giamatti would have had it checked I bet.

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[–] tuffysmom 15 years ago

Yeah, I agree. While it was an enjoyable movie (I'd watch Clive Owen read the phone book), I immediately thought "wouldn't Giamatti have spent two minutes checking out the formula?"

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[–] guddy 15 years ago

You people take these movies waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to seriously.

Karsten Baumgartl
"Guddy"
Writer and Movie Critic.
http://www.criticalfilmcondition.com

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[–] robthebob2468 15 years ago

I believe the fact that he took the formula and assumed it was authentic speaks more about his character's flaws than a possible plot-hole.

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[–] bas1311-1 15 years ago

It speaks most about lazy writing. Gilroy liked his twist and didn't seem to care if it made sense or take the time to make it work.

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[–] marinequeen 15 years ago

Agreed with the last post, I think they fact that Giamatti begins his speech joking about his impulsiveness was meant to show what a ridiculous man he was, and thus he probably got so wrapped up in all this intrigue that he just wanted to "win" at the meeting.

What I didn't really understand is how Clive Owen was able to walk out of his camp unscathed, with the formula? They just took the crumpled paper from him and said "get out"? That didn't make any sense to me.

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[–] Danusha_Goska 15 years ago

Ditto ditto ditto, and ditto to marinequeen's post above about Clive Owen just being allowed to leave ... don't at all understand any logic for Roberts coming in and "exposing" him ...

So many plot holes in this movie.

Like ... since the guy tied to the blackboard was merely acting, why did he risk his life by struggling against the blackboard, which was certain to fall, given how he was struggling? Since he was just acting, wouldn't he just sit there calmly?

Of course, the scenes of his struggle added to the suspense, but they make no sense in retrospect.

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[–] FreshOne10 15 years ago

Julia Roberts exposing him was all part of the carefully planned exit strategy. Basically, it was that Clive couldn't be trusted and he had to be expulsed. Note that these aren't real bad guys, they were good guys, ex governement and Pentagon guy who are now in private enterprise. So they aren't really going to commit murder. It was basically, "Clive, we can't trust you any more... thanks for your services and helping us get the formula, but now you are out and no pay for you." Among CIA, MI6, Interpol etc, there is a code (of honour/respect/profession) and they just don't go killing off one another. You can see this code in the recent Bond films as well.

They guy tied to the blackboard... ahem... flat screen TV... she taped his eyes, so he didn't really know what she was up to... and he just kept up with his act. What would someone else do in a situation like that? Try to get away... that's what he was doing.

I didn't see many plot holes in the movie... maybe I'm missing something, but try to point out another one and I'll try to reply/explain.

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[–] bas1311-1 15 years ago

The guy tied to the TV was in cahoots with the security guards as well as many of the people in charge. Once Julia left, they could have come into the room and done what he did without him almost dying. That was just to throw us off the track and it was one of the many stupid things in this movie that came from lazy writing.

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[–] david-craig-wilson 15 years ago

I don't view this as a hole. In a good confidence scam, the mark believes the set up so thoroughly that there is no suspicion.

Think of the Madoff scam. Really successful people gave over a big chunk of money with absolutely no due diligence.

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[–] dfenton85 15 years ago

That's a good point regarding Giamatti's character, but it's still unbelivable that Owen and Robert's characters wouldn't have checked the formula. I can appreciate suspention of disbelieve, one the main themes of the movie was nothing is what it seems, and that's spoken by the two characters on numourous occasions. I suppose they didn't want anyone to steal it, but in their fields, I'm sure they had people they could go to and maybe offer a million to keep quite.

All in all, an entertaining movie, but with far too many plot holes, and not what I expected as a loved Michael Clayton. 3 out of 5.

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[–] Tonesta 15 years ago

"That's a good point regarding Giamatti's character, but it's still unbelivable that Owen and Robert's characters wouldn't have checked the formula"

But surely that's the whole point of the movie, and the twist at the end?

You spend two hours watching Owen & Roberts, and trying to work out what their big, clever play is. And then the twist is that they're actually both complete morons who never had a semblance of a workable plan, and who were just being played all along by Wilkinson.....

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[–] bas1311-1 15 years ago

I think this might be tongue-in-cheek, but not sure so I will answer as if you are serious. That most certainly is not the point of the movie. The point of the movie is that Wilkinson duped everyone because he is supposed to be clever and conniving. To explain the poor writing by saying that the main characters, a CIA operative and an MI6 operative, were just morons just doesn't make sense.

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[–] Tonesta 15 years ago

Not really tongue-in-cheek.

Whether Gilroy intended for the characters to be idiots, I have no idea. You may be right, I might be giving him too much credit and in reality it was just poor writing. I like to think it was intentional though as it was a neat ending.

Because the fact remains that their 'plan' was completely inept. All it involved was getting jobs at a madly competetive company (the mole job was just a lucky hit) and then hang around hoping something big would come up that they could take advantage of. If clever old Wilko's lackey hadn't dropped the formula on their lap, they had no means of getting to it. They might have been working there for another decade before finding another opportunity. And then they almost screwed it up anyhow. And then they failed to check the formula before trying to sell it. It was a complete mess of a plan.

And methinks you have a little too much faith in our security services! I'm pretty sure there's plenty of muppets that work there.....

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[–] bas1311-1 15 years ago

I think the fact that they had no plan to get the formula is just another poorly written and directed part of the movie.

The whole scene where the formula is dropped in Julia's lap and she runs around forever trying to find a copier. Why anyone on Duke's team would think this was a good plan(and then not practice the plan in advance since they had the blueprint of the building) is beyond me. That stupidity is even shown to be more stupid by the fact that Julia did take a picture of it and any moron or spy would think of this as the smart option rather than risk running around the building for 10 minutes.

In addition to that, the lackey who dropped the formula in their lap flails like a crazy person, risking his life almost getting a giant TV on the head for his troubles. These actions clearly weren't necessary as the Security Guards who tied him up were in on the ruse and Julia was all the way across the building.

Obviously these two scenes were to increase suspense, conflict and tension as well as keep the twist a secret, but when thought about after the twist is revealed they come off as more examples of incredibly sloppy writing.

If you have a twist that relies on lying to the audience and characters doing incredibly stupid things that they don't need to do, you really only have an idea for a twist and nothing more.

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[–] mhong33 15 years ago

You never know, maybe Giamatti and Clive and Julia DID check out the formula. Remember, all the other members of Giamatti's team were actually working for Wilkinson. So they could have just lied and told everyone that they checked out the formula and it was new.

So that plot hole didn't bother me as much as (i) why Julia made a big deal out of exposing Clive to the team, and (ii) how Clive was able to take a copy of the formula to Switzerland.

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[–] anyajzb 15 years ago

People are smart until they aren't. Milton Friedman is a genius until his theories create a meltdown. Intelligence exports are on top of it until they aren't. Hi tech equipment is brilliant until it fails. That's the point of the film. Giamatti's character is so consumed by screwing over his competitor he becomes blind to things he normally wouldn't have taken for granted. The two main characters (Clive and Julia) are so greedy, jealous and mistrustful of one another they make stupid mistakes. Basically, humanity is one step away from making an ass of itself and messing everything up. 'Amazing' discoveries get tons of hoopla until they're found to be a bust. To me, that's the entire point of the film.

Yes, I agree Clive Owen's character shouldn't have been able to leave the building with the formula or without being seriously mauled. It might be an explanation to this was lost in editing. There are very few suspense films where you can't punch holes in it after the fact... it's entertainment, not national security plans which, btw, are also full of holes and inconsistencies. I loved this film!

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[–] bas1311-1 15 years ago

So the explanation is that they made mistakes? I and half the people on the imdb board thought of checking the formula. Gilroy even thought of checking the formula in the scene with the Swiss buyers. Giamatti or Roberts and Owen not checking the formula is not to prove a point about the character's greed or incompetence. It's lazy writing because the "twist" didn't work any other way.

The leaving the building thing, as you said, made no sense, but the copy machine plan made even less sense. That scene was so incredibly stupid, it was laughable. For the characters to search for a copy machine and to think the other character's would fall for that as opposed to taking a picture is just making suspense for suspense sake and trying to fit the rest of the plot into the script.

The entire plot was poor and that's before we even get to the fact that the "romantic" dialogue was abysmal and there was no chemistry between the main characters. They had way more chemistry in Closer, and by way more I mean some.

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[–] mib6116 15 years ago

HE DIDNT HAVE THE FORMULA!!!!! DUKE STILL HAD IT (IN THE FILING CABINET). PAUL GIAMATTI WAS ALREADY IN CALIFORNIA AND HE SAID SOMETHING ABOUT SEEING IT WHEN HE GOT BACK, HE DIDNT HAVE IT CHECKED OUT BECAUSE HE NEVER SAW IT.
______________________

"People are just bastard coated bastards with bastard filling."

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[–] Wayne_Grabert 15 years ago

The biggest insult to my intelligence:

They are shown at the end of the movie rehearsing what to say to each other because they expect to be bugged out on the street somewhere in a faked chance encounter, yet they don't expect to be bugged in their super-luxurious hotel room that the company rented for one of them.

This is one of the most contrived, illogical movies I've ever seen. The best thing about it was the outstanding musical score.

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[–] sherri_lu 15 years ago

<i>"They are shown at the end of the movie rehearsing what to say to each other because they expect to be bugged out on the street somewhere in a faked chance encounter, yet they don't expect to be bugged in their super-luxurious hotel room that the company rented for one of them."</i>

They weren't in a super-luxurious hotel room, They were in a rundown apartment.

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[–] eopanga 15 years ago

This was just a massive plothole. People can try to explain it away in any number of ways but it really just comes down to some pretty sloppy writing on Tony Gilroy's part. I don't care how impulsive Giamatti's character was, it's absolutely implausible that a CEO engaged in corporate espionage wouldn't test the secret formula he just stole from his competitor before announcing it to the whole world. Especially when you consider that one of the people who helped you steal it just tried to screw you.

How could they possibly have known that it was even the formula they were looking for. Even if they weren't being played there are a whole host of reasons why it wouldn't be the right one. Maybe the person who was supposedly "caught" trying to steal it took the wrong formula, maybe the formula they had wasn't complete, or maybe the damn thing just didn't work in the first place. You telling me that no one bothered to say to themselves, perhaps we should check out whether this thing is legit especially since we didn't develop it ourselves. I think Gilroy just tried to get a little bit too clever with the ending, which is unfortunate because it does ultimately take away from a overall good movie.

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[–] spin-fu 15 years ago

what part of the movie IS believable??? it's a comedy, just go with it, people.

i have a much bigger issue with how clive got out with the formula. i probably just missed it. can someone explain it?

also, julia had a picture of it on her phone? did she not use a COPY MACHINE so that the spy team could tap into it and get it? the COPY MACHINE must have spit out a COPY of it on paper. just take that, julia.

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[–] vbelyshev 15 years ago

well, giamatti's character was actually only several hours away from the meeting, so i don't think he simply had the time to care- rather feast!

Time is Luck. The Luck has ran out.

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