MovieChat Forums > Cold Souls (2010) Discussion > People need to understand the difference...

People need to understand the difference between rip off and inspiration

posted 15 years ago by jew213
28 replies | jump to latest

I've wrote this in two different threads, but their seems to be a million about it:

People need to understand something,

Just because somebody does a movie about some sort of metaphysical event, it doesn't mean they're a copying it.

If someone makes a movie about said metaphysical event and the plot lives with the event, yeah, it would be a rip off of Eternal Sunshine.

If someone makes a movie about some kid coming back to his home town for the first time in a long time, where he meets a girl and goes through a period of person rediscovery, it's a rip-off of Garden State.

But if someone makes a movie that takes place in prison, it's not gonna be a rip-off of the Shawshank Redemption.

Do you hear what I'm saying.

Someone can make another movie about memory loss or some mystical machine that can alter your life, but it doesn't mean it's ripping off Eternal Sunshine.

Everybody in the industry seems afraid to do another movie about a sports agent because they feel it would be called copying Jerry Maguire, yet the angle of the movie can be 100% different.

A movie can be odd, strange, surreal, and a combination of real life with the elements of fantasy, it's not ripping off Charlie Kaufman. It's inspired by Charlie Kaufman, quite a difference.

It's all about the angle the film takes.

Remember, there is a large difference between an inspiration and a rip-off. A ripoff of Eternal would be, if the plot was derived from Giamattis soul or something like that.

We have over 100 years of cinema, at one point it become alright to have the same broad premise of a movie. I doubt Charlie Kaufman watches this trailer and goes, "Way to rip me off"

In Eternal for example, the metaphysical event was the basis of a love story. If another movie does that, it can be sort of a rip off. But if stems an action plot or a mystery or a comedy or a movie with a social message, it's fine.

[–] s-brittany 15 years ago

Actually Etnernal Sunshine is not the movie in question.
Synecdoche, New York is.

[–] Spleen 14 years ago

Really? I would have assumed that Being John Malkovich was the closest Kaufman film. And the fact that this three-way disagreement is possible shows how ridiculous this "rip-off" talk is.

And let's not forget that Barthes's film is better than all three. She's proved herself a better writer than Kaufman and certainly a better director than him (or, for that matter, his two frequent hack collaborators, Spike Jonze and Michel Gondry). Even if she slavishly copied all her material from Kaufman, which is simply an absurd contention, her act is justified by the fact that she, at least, got it right.

[–] Warhol_Superstar_no_5 14 years ago

"And let's not forget that Barthes's film is better than all three. She's proved herself a better writer than Kaufman and certainly a better director than him (or, for that matter, his two frequent hack collaborators, Spike Jonze and Michel Gondry). Even if she slavishly copied all her material from Kaufman, which is simply an absurd contention, her act is justified by the fact that she, at least, got it right."

Yeah, dream on.

[–] Spleen 14 years ago

What exactly are you disagreeing with here? I know that Charlie Kaufman is more famous than Sophie Barthes, which is why my claims might sound odd until you actually think about them - at which point you're bound to realise I'm right. Does Barthes's film have a single scene that falls embarrassingly flat? And does any Kaufman film not have such a scene - many such scenes, in fact? Of course not.

[–] Warhol_Superstar_no_5 14 years ago

Read my post "The reason people compare this to Kaufman" in this message board for a response, Spleen. No one's commented on it yet so you're free to kill two birds with one stone by disagreeing on that thread.

[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] soupisgoodfood 14 years ago

In regards to Kaufman's films, which scenes fall flat?

[–] Mil_Mesetas 14 years ago

Is it you, Sophie?

[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] adamwarlock 15 years ago

I agree.

Everybody in the industry seems afraid to do another movie about a sports agent because they feel it would be called copying Jerry Maguire, yet the angle of the movie can be 100% different.

Arliss did this (a TV show but still).

[–] bobbyhillguy 15 years ago

This is all symantics. Ripping-off, as you call it, and "inspired by" can mean the exact same thing. It's all how one takes it. One person can say, "Oh, I see how that was inspired from another filmmaker!" and another can say, "No, they just ripped him off!" Think on that.......................................

[–] savatose 15 years ago

I agree with you

inspired by movies: snatch, 21 grams, crash, traffic from pulp fiction (intersection characters). Finding Nemo, 50 first date from Memento (short term memory lost thingy). It's not a rip off

[–] Baron_Crumbly 15 years ago

Traffic was not inspired by Pulp Fiction.
.
.
.
(It's a remake of Traffik) >> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096716/

[–] GrigoryGirl 15 years ago

Traffic was a remake of a better, much more complex and ambiguous British miniseries.

Memento was a rip off of Winters Sleepers, a film by Tom Tyker (Run Lola Run). In that film, there's a character who has short term memory loss, and who takes pictures of things so he remembers. It was made 3 years before Memento.

[–] The_Big_Silver_Screen 15 years ago

And everything is a rip-off of Shakespeare ;)

T

[–] BaiNst 15 years ago

Actually, Gene Wolfe's novel SOLDIER OF THE MIST predates both films...but not Shakespeare (see A MIDSUMMER NIGHT'S DREAM). :-p

[–] ccr152 15 years ago

halfway through the trailer i was thinking it sounded like a kaufman movie, but i liked that about it. i didn't get pissed.

[–] antipopltd 15 years ago

People don't need to understand anything. Whether the script is a rip off or not (which..I think it's a blatant rip off) is really not the issue. The issue is that the trailer is obviously made to seem like a Charlie Kauffman movie. It's sad marketing. It's the state of the hollywood machine. The hopes are that people will say "oh man...it's that dude that made that eternal sunshine movie...let's go see it". That means purchased tickets, units in seats, dollars. I mean, because, that's all we are - units. The fact that we're so incensed about the rip off that we're writing messages about it is a good thing. I'm sure there are 2000 *beep* that'll read these messages and go see it...just because.

Frankly, it insults my intelligence. I feel used and abused and silly because I was duped until I read the credit screen in the preview.

http://www.myspace.com/antipopltd

wake up

[–] sundi14 15 years ago

Simply, you are kind of an idiot and I feel bad for you... along with thousands of other morons that post to these threads. Yes, I know the response will be: "why are you posting here?" Haha, lets just get that outta the way now. Truthfully, from time to time, I will read some of these threads to make myself feel smarter. This is the first and probably the last time I will ever write something here. Most of you who write on these threads have no idea what you are talking about. Yeah, it sounds nice with your knowledge of vocabulary and your obscure references but, honestly, you are just a bunch of angry nerds. You have never worked on a movie or been on a tv set (most of you)... all you are good at is criticizing other people's work. Unfortunately, to me, this is one of the negative aspects of the internet (gives people a voice who shouldn't have one). Yes, by the way, I have worked on movies and tv shows for the last 5 years (including going to film school), which leads me to believe that I am qualified to say something here. Now that that's out of the way I just wanted to say that this movie has an interesting and unique concept. Sure, it may have the feel of a Kaufmannesque type of movie... who cares. Kaufmann is brilliant and his work inspires other artist and will for years to come. Newsflash: this has happened since the advent of creative expression, it's never going to change. Get used to it. Truth is, there is no such thing as an original thought anymore. Pretty much everything has been done or said somewhere before you thought of it. As one of the other posters said "it's how you take a similar idea/concept and apply it with an unique angle." If you don't like something don't go see it... vote with your wallet. Also, this movie isn't made for the mass audience. It's not made to make huge profits as you are alluding either. It was made for a couple of million dollars and they hope to get enough of a return to pay their bills and live another day to make another movie. Finally, this movie definitely doesn't deserve the hate you are all giving it. There are many, many worse movies out there that you could waste your time degrading.

[–] fortunate1 15 years ago

Your post is so riven with internal contradictions, sundil, that it reads as satire; that you make no actual mention of your own credits leavens the suspicion, though.

Still, as long as your professional ambitions tend away from editing, I'm sure there's a place for you in the industry.

[–] dominicpearson 14 years ago

Ha ha I loved this reply. From the "I have never posted on the internet but will make an exception now" rubbish to the "Ive been to film school and worked movies and TV shows".

Well done, you spent however many years sitting on your backside watching films whilst others undertook proper study. When I was a univeristy you could always tell the film/media study students. They were the ones whose knuckles were dragging along the floor and signed their names in crayon.

Clearly paragraph structure was not something taught either.

So onto the content - very difficult to decipher an actual point as I dont think one was actually made. Some overused "if you dont like it dont see it" and "theres no such thing as a new idea" (which, by the way, is an exceptionally defeatist attitude and one that shows you clearly have no creativity leading me to question what you do in the industry - tea boy perhaps?)

But this is all for nought as you wont be coming back here because you are so much better than anyone who has ever posted on an internet forum before and obviously far too busy in your fantasy land.

And by the by, I enjoyed the film and saw the similarities with Eternal Sunshine and Being John Malcovich but do not think it was a rip off. It was a completely different type of film so, to some degree, I agree with the OP.

[–] Incredible_sulk 14 years ago

your ignorance is showing. You do realize that there's a difference between getting a liberal arts degree in film studies and going to a real FILM SCHOOL, right? the answer is yes, and one of the options actually teaches you how to make a movie.

[–] soupisgoodfood 14 years ago

The return/enter key is your friend. Please don't neglect your friend. Your friend makes it easier for other people to read a comment they may otherwise have ignored.

[–] vnzbarrera 15 years ago

There absolutely is a difference between inspiration and ripping off. However, just based on the trailer I think it's fair to say that this is at least a little bit of a Kaufman rip-off. It's got a lot of different aspects to it that make it Kaufmanesque, and I don't think it's a ripoff of one specific movie. Cold Souls seems as if it is a compilation of different things from several Kaufman films.

First off, there's the neurotic artist. That's Synecdoche.

Then there's the mystical procedure meant to make life better. (Eternal)

Then there's the screen-version of a real person. (Adaptation and Being John Malkovich)

Now, as I said, I definitely agree that inspiration is different from rip-off. However, I think that this is too much to be considered merely "inspiration." I'd say the gap between Cold Souls and Kaufman's films is decidedly narrower than the gap between "jail" and The Shawshank Redemption.

[–] bestdayever 14 years ago

I'm sorry, but I wasn't aware that Charlie Kaufman copywrited the concept of the "neurotic artist" or "the mystical procedure" or an actor playing "himself."
Those are motifs. Kaufman does not OWN the stock character of the neurotic artist, or the motif of an actor playing himself in the film. Those are concepts or ideas. Unless Cold Souls had the exact same plot line, with the exact same conceit, you can't say it's a rip-off! Using that line of reasoning, then I could easily say that Kaufman's Eternal Sunshine is a ripoff of Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet because it has two lovers who are separated (Do you see how disconnected that cause-and-effect argument is? It makes EVERYTHING a ripoff).

I love Kaufman films, and I was reminded of Eternal Sunshine and Adaptation while watching Cold Souls, but I did not feel the movies were ripped off. Cold Souls has a different tone entirely, it's not as off-the-wall wacky as Kaufman films tend to get, and it explores the concept of the soul, not of memory erasing or orchids or writing a script or trying to document your life through a play within a play within a play.
I didn't love Cold Souls, but I definitely enjoyed it, so it bothers me that people could let their enjoyment of a movie get in the way by feeling ripped off, when in fact Cold Souls has something unique and intruiging to offer. Have an open mind.

[–] eric_harris 14 years ago

Shakespeare has been used a couple times here as the original artist to be ripped off. Take a look into the history of his most famous plays, they are adaptations of older works. Shakespeare "ripped off" people by today's standards since he didn't have to pay for the rights to adapt older works. Examples: 1. Romeo and Juliet was based on an Italian tale that had been translated into a poem in 1562 and later adapted by Shakespeare into the play we know today. 2. Hamlet is based on the legend of Amleth, preserved by Saxo Grammaticus in the 13th century. Yes, my information came from Wikipedia (but only because message board posts don't deserve extensive research), but you can read full length essays about the source for each play in most complete works or in the individual college-level copies of individual plays.

For the record, I love Shakespeare's work and find him very original for his use of language alone. The fact that most of my favorite plays were really adaptations doesn't bother me.

The point of this is even William Shakespeare can be called a rip off artist (and I'm not even talking about the authorship debate). It never ends. So if it's okay for Shakespeare to take story elements from other sources and make it his own with amazing style, then that is fine by me. The way something is presented is pretty much the only way to be original these days, in my opinion.

That said, I see where people could argue that "Cold Souls" is a rip off, but to be honest as I was watching the film I didn't think that. It certainly reminded me of most of the other films already mentioned, but it didn't make me say, "Heyyyyyy, wait a minute..." Though even the style of the film is a bit too close to the other films. Giamatti is great, though, and it has its moments. I didn't think it was anything special, though. It certainly wasn't worthy of such a lengthy message board post. I'll shut up now.

[–] dbh850 14 years ago

Jew213, great post! This film is brilliant and original and fresh and marvelous. I can't understand why anyone would have a problem with it. Giamatti is BRILLIANT.

You know what they say... no one with missing teeth wears an Armani suit.

[–] sehaitt 14 years ago

Having no prior knowledge of this film or even seen a trailer, and after having just finished the movie, I'll say that I don't think this is a 'ripoff' (obviously). There was a bit in the beginning when I thought of 'Being John Malkovitch' but after that, I took it for what it was and enjoyed it as a separate entity. For me it was a comedy and I laughed throughout. I mostly watched it for Giamati though, love that guy. Some of the ending bugged me a bit though (2 souls in 1 body), but whatever. I didn't take this movie to be making some grand statement. It was good for what it was and I'm sure Giamati fans will enjoy it just as much as I have.

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Jesus would back me up on this I think.
"Dually noted." - My boss