japanese - John Rabe (2009) Discussion

[–] AltaireIII 14 years ago

I would not paint every Japanese person from that era with the same brush. But I don't think you are doing that either.

If you read the book "The Rape of Nanking" by Iris Chang, you'll learn much about the inner workings of the Japanese military at the time.

Foreign POW's under Japanese occupation in WWII fared far worse than POW's under German control and Allies control for that matter.

At that time and place, the Japanese military revolved around the overly misguided mindset of it is better to die fighting than surrender or be defeated. Death before dishonor carried to the highest extreme.

When the Japanese conquered a given area, they had no respect for the people they vanquished because they did not die fighting. There was harsh treatment of captured military and civilians because of this overly emphasized credo of death before dishonor.

So if the Chinese in Manchuria and Nanking had put up a fight to the death then yes they would be dead. But the Japanese would have respected them a whole lot more. A lot of good that does you when you are dead and gone eh?

Sadly this tale of woe and horror continues even now. Japan has never faced its past. Their school history books totally whitewash and clean up Japanese invovlement during the WW II. Many of the soldiers and officers in Nanking were never prosecuted as War Criminals either. They went on to live normal lives in post-War Japan. I wonder if any of them ever lost a night of sleep over what they did. I wonder if they are proud of their service? If they do have gargantuan guilt then perhaps a life of that is a far better punishment than any prison or execution squad can provide.

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[–] DonnerParty808 13 years ago

Screw that death before dishonor bull crap. The Japanese were just animals. They raped and pillaged countries for centuries for no darn reason. They would still be doing it if we didn't dismantle their army and reform their country.

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[–] mr-mike883-964-885762 12 years ago

Have you ever been to Japan? It HAS faced it's past. The Japanese government has repeatedly apologized to China among other countries and the majority of history books today do not whitewash their history. (The exception being "The New History Textbook" a book that was shunned by the vast majority of Japan's schools

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[–] AquaExecution 14 years ago

Many of them still are. This film is banned in Japan.

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[–] Snakeprophet 14 years ago

To this day the Japanese still dance the dance of victimization. Apparently nothing in WWII was their fault. Its odd that you don't see this type of attitude in Germany. The German cinema is very open about the civilian's responsibility in war. In turn the Japanese will only put out WWII films that display themselves as victims of an over aggressive world.

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[–] Chops-4 14 years ago

"In turn the Japanese will only put out WWII films that display themselves as victims of an over aggressive world. "

I understand your position, but I think that Japan was maneuvered towards the war by various political and trade interferences by the British, French and Americans. The Allies weren't without complicity in precipitating WW II. We have long believed our own propaganda that the Allies were freedom loving innocents and the Axis powers were sinister aggressors. We've all been deceived by the master manipulators of our societies. Neither side is all black while the opposite is white. Japs were generally much harsher than the other Axis nations, but so were the Russians on the Allied side. Most of us have heard very little of our own (American and British) maltreatment of conquered people. We're all guilty. and that includes the Jews.

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[–] Snakeprophet 14 years ago

I understand your position, but I think that Japan was maneuvered towards the war by various political and trade interferences by the British, French and Americans.

Chops, I can not in good conscience argue that Fascism had some legitimate reason for existing. I understand your point that the allies could perform atrocities as vile as the Axis, case in point for as much tears as the Japanese shed for the fire bombing of Tokyo, the destruction of Dresden was far more complete and horrific if only because Churchill and Eisenhower knew well beforehand what the scale of the devastation would be. But that still does not excuse the aggression of Fascist states during that time.

As for the belief that the Japanese were forced into being the aggressor, again the myth of Victimization at work here. The German people understood perfectly after the war that the silent majority that acquiesced to the military machine should be held just as responsible as the vocal minority that dragged everyone to war. In many ways I feel it was because the German people were forced to be held responsible for all the atrocities of the Nazi regime, whether they deserved it or not.

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] tempestnam 14 years ago

As for the belief that the Japanese were forced into being the aggressor, again the myth of Victimization at work here.

I think it was stated they were maneuvered towards the war. Not that their actions were excused or they were the victim.

Depending on how much you look at the financial control in US interests at the time and consider who was playing what game.

The US populace was vastly opposed to entering the war. And while there was certainly "trade" going on globally, financiers knew they could make a lot more off of the US being in a war than sitting on the sidelines.

War means debt borrowing by the government who must repay it. (To private banks).

Given the US populace was so opposed, the only thing they were going to respond to was being provoked. Thus Pearl Harbor. A real solid argument can be made that the US not only invited the attack, but several people in the military conviniently increased the odds.

That is, the US cut Japan off. Japan was dependent on imports from the US to allow their industry to function. The cutting off of trade meant eventually Japan was going to suffer a pretty complete collapse of their economy.

but I think Germany (over the years) has been penalized a bit too much for what Hitler started

We might add that the Allies themselves allowed this situation to come to fruition and, in fact, pushed the German people to turn to whatever was going to fix the problems.

That is. After WWI (which, there was no "right" side in that war, in fact, one could argue it was the Germans-Austrians who were betrayed [by Italy]), the Allies imposed unreasonable victory conditions.

That Germany admit complete fault in the war, repay war debts beyond what their economy could bear, they divided Prussia from the rest of Germany (In fact, Germany had legitimate claim on Poland, because the people living in areas like Danzig were German).

And that stemmed from British and French envy that Germany had become the power in Europe. After Bismark united the German people their innovation, economic power, diplomacy was above everyone elses in Europe. Thus the triple alliance, triple entente.

Homeland divided, impoverished due to imposed conditions, the German people were looking for any solution. Instead of reaching out to rebuild Europe after WWI, the winners drove wedges between the people.

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[–] kkevinn6 12 years ago

japan has already apologised a hundred times. how many more times do the chinese want?

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