MovieChat Forums > The Ides of March (2011) Discussion > Giamatti's speech at the bar about dems ...

Giamatti's speech at the bar about dems not wallowing in the mud w/

posted 10 years ago by Obi_Bon_Kenjovi
9 replies | jump to latest

Gosling says: "What? That sounds like what the Republicans do." Giamatti says: "That's exactly what the republicans do. I've seen democrats that were qualified but lost because they refused to wallow in the mud with the elephants."
Now, he's referring to the primaries, where one party votes for the worst candidate of the other party so their opponent will be easier to beat. Limbaugh deemed this Operation chaos when he suggested it in 08. This is a fact.

However, the conversation implies that Democrats lose elections often because they refuse to play dirty politics...this is a *beep* joke right? First of all, both parties use dirty tactics, but democrats win the scumbag trophy by a slight margin. These are the guys that constantly accuse Republicans for hating blacks, Jews, gays, the poor, WOMEN!!!? That's my favorite...WOMEN! Guy sits around in college and he starts getting interested in politics and he thinks to himself, "Gee..I sure do hate women...which party hates women? Ok, I'll join them." The Democrats are NOTORIOUS for attacking the candidate when they can't win the argument. The classic Saul Alinsky methods adopted by Democrats guarantee it. "Keep the opponent on the defensive" is a classic Alinsky style tactic. I don't believe in the Republican/Democrat paradigm so don't accuse me of being a Republican. But who's kidding who? Neither party is squeaky clean, but I'd say the Democrats are the sleazier with their tactics.

...of all the arts, for us the cinema is the most important Vladimir Lenin

[–] Prismark10 10 years ago

Maybe Dems are just as dirty as the GOP but until Clinton they were not good at fighting dirty.

Its that man again!!

[–] ajaddiction2004 9 years ago

The two party system has ruined this country! Tools like Clooney and company just perpetuate the losers in politics!

[–] dirussel 9 years ago

Dude pop your bubble. In modern politics the Right wrote the book on negative campaigning.

[–] Penhall99 9 years ago

Yeah I laughed out loud on that scene.

[–] Zuider_Zee 9 years ago

Clooney isn't going to portray the Democrats as anything less than perfection personified. He is a political idiot.

[–] AssetsonFire 8 years ago

Evidently you haven't watched this film.

~.~
There were three of us in this marriage
http://www.imdb.com/list/ze4EduNaQ-s/

[–] denise1234 9 years ago

Yeah...

That part about the elephants & donkeys...

Made me LOL and took me totally out of the movie.

"Shake your hair girl with your ponytail"

[–] slokes 8 years ago

It's a subjective observation made by a Democrat who has been frustrated by the experience of being on some losing campaigns, and trying to make excuses to someone he just propositioned to betray a rival candidate. In fact, the line about wallowing in the mud has a double meaning when we learn later on that the purpose of asking a rival campaign's deputy to this bar (pregnantly named "Head First") was in fact a bit of skulduggery in itself, quite divorced from the request to switch sides.

Candidates in both parties do this sort of thing, not all of them, but nearly all the successful ones. Democrats were never any less ruthless about it than Republicans, i. e. Barry Goldwater and the Daisy Girl ad. I suspect George Clooney and the writers think the Democrats get the short end, but putting it in the mouth of someone who proves singularly ruthless himself kind of militates against the point.

Sure, Clooney's a lib, and he will never see both sides of an issue, but "Ides" is not a partisan movie, except perhaps in suggesting that even people with ideals can be ruined by their participation in our democratic process.

[–] Black_Lies_Matter 8 years ago

Yes, it's completely laughable. Democrats are the party of propaganda and false narratives. It is all they are.

But I think what the scene showed is only that Giamatti's character believed that Democrats don't wallow in the mud. And it is completely believable that a Democrat could think that.