MovieChat Forums > Formosa Betrayed (2010) Discussion > Whoever made this movie must have hated ...

Whoever made this movie must have hated Taiwan


This movie is crap and not accurate at all. First of all, Taiwan did not look like that in 1983, 1963 maybe, but 1983 Taiwan was not like that. Not even Vietnam looked like that in 1983. Second, the scene showed military policemen entering a restaurant asking who is a communist spy and randomly arresting some poor old man eating breakfast; this could never happen. I am not saying that this never happened before because I am sure a lot of people had been wrongly accused of being communists. I said that this could never happen is because military policemen can not enter civilian properties while in uniform. Also military policeman are always in dress uniform unlike the what the movie portrayed.

Granted that Taiwan was under state of martial law in 1983, people are actually free to go anywhere and do whatever they want to do. The only noticeable difference is that serious crimes are punishable under military jurisdiction. That is, if you rob a store, you could get the death penalty. And punishment is usually severe and swift. Not a good thing for criminals but I am sure the victims preferred this swift justice over the snail-paced legal system now.

This movie is filled with inaccurate depictions of Taiwan and it's people. It is filled with hate and contempt. Whoever made this movie must have hated Taiwan.

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From what I heard from the promotions and interviews of this movie, and from the title itself, I also feel that this movie's main agenda is to instigate hatred or sway foreign country's opinion about Taiwan. It's probably a kind of "feeling better"/propaganda movie for believers of the Taiwan-independence religion, and not an intellectual movie that inspires intellectual thinking/introspection. It's true democracy is all nice and dandy from modern points of view, but at that time Taiwan/ROC did suffer a lot form spies and military threats from mainland China. There are complicated hostorical reasons for tragedies caused by 'white terror'. The government had both its positive contributions and wrongdoings at the same time. This movie is alleged to show things American doesn't know, but at the same time it also shows how little the movie-maker actually knows about Taiwan and history in general.

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The actor who played Ming (he is also producer and one of the writers) is a Tawainese American, who was a diplomat before he became an actor. It's pretty clear he loves Taiwan and prefers democracy to a military dictatorship.

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...and been heart-broken about such an evil and depressing time of Taiwan's history. The movie opens in Taiwan this weekend 6th August, so i've not seen it yet. I think "wpdleo"'s comments are a little strange- surely the film-maker loves his country (although I believe he's actually American or half American, something) - (let's say his ancestral country) and this is why he's made a film about it: to highlight a period of Taiwan's history that maybe not a lot of non-Taiwanese do not realise happened or understand. also the good old, well worn phrase 'those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it' could be appropriate here with the current Taiwanese government continually batting eye-lashes at China. if Taiwan were to become another Tibet, Xinjiang or Hong Kong it would be a tradgedy that all the so-called freedom and democracy loving countries of the world should feel utterly ashamed of.

i can't comment on the film, only the OP's comments, who rightly says that Taiwan was under martial law at the time, also known as the 'white terror'. this white terror period, which lasted for 38 years and 57 days, was designed to prevent the people of Taiwan discussing or gaining any knowledge about what is known as the 228 incident, in which the Taiwanese KMT government massacred thousands of people (official figures are shaky - somewhere between 10,000 & 30,000 or more). the governemt, obviously rightly sickened and apalled by their own actions sought to erase the event from public consciousness by imposing martial law and making talking about the event illegal. so, as the OP says, being free to do whatever they wanted is not entirely true as they were not free to critisise the governemt at all, and it was this offence, not robbing, that could and often did lead to the death penalty. they didn't just punish criminals, they punished people who expressed opinions, especially opinions that were negative towards the KMT. we'd all be dead if we still lived in that kind of regime. but one other important thing to note is that martial law was enforced not just against those who spoke openly against the KMT and about 228, it was extended to people who the governemt 'perceived' to be against them - and when you have a situation like that, you know you're in trouble.

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"this white terror period, which lasted for 38 years and 57 days, was designed to prevent the people of Taiwan discussing or gaining any knowledge about what is known as the 228 incident, in which the Taiwanese KMT government massacred thousands of people (official figures are shaky - somewhere between 10,000 & 30,000 or more)."

Obvious propaganda. The white terror period was designed to "contain" communist infiltration. 228 incident isn't that important. Records and evidences show only 680 died from the incident. Only 680 death filed for compensation. This is after government offers a huge sum of money 60 mil NT. This is consistent with residential registration record, which was established before 1949.

"they didn't just punish criminals, they punished people who expressed opinions, especially opinions that were negative towards the KMT. we'd all be dead if we still lived in that kind of regime."

Many politic dissidents were jailed. The most KMT police did was torture. Illegal execution was rather rare since most citizens don't participate in politics. MP usually force confession. Only 10000 people actually were terrorized in this white terror period. Obviously, your opinion is rather wrong.

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Right.. only so and so people were murderded and only so and so people were tortured. If someone can consider that normal, please have someone torture you or murder your family.

Very obviously, someone here to provide false information about the figures in Taiwan.

1. In 1960, over 120,000 registration were cancelled by the Executive Yuan.

2. Victims were paid most with NTD 6 Mil, however, criminal records were not cancelled at the same time. The payment was compensation not indemnification and application required documents which many were lost.

3. KMT up to this date still has not apologized for the killing. Often pretending that it didn't happen. Its not hard to see why some people think its not a big deal killing few thousand people because they lack of the basic respect for human rights.

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Less than 1000 pp were killed in the 228 incident. It's really insignificant. That's less than 911 terrorist attack. The 40's and the 50's were marked by turbulent history change. In China, death by thousands was common. I really don't see 1000 pp massacre that much different than many similar massacres in China. It was too common to be even mentioned.

1. It's perfectly understandable that in 1960, under the martial law, Executive Yuan chose not to disclose the detail of the incident. However, in 1990, Executive Yuan chose to release the data. There's not that many death.

2. The Executive Yuan ordered a reparation of victim's family. The 228 foundation pays 6 mil to victim's family members if he has 2 sources of proof. All you need is 2 family members under sworn oath. It's easy money. Yet only ~700 people actually qualify. 228 foundation is actually a pro DPP organization.

3. Absolutely false. Under Lee Teng-Hui, a now pan-green activist, the Executive Yuan of ROC apologized for the mistake. Money were funneled to victim's family members. Look, if Lee Teng-Hui and Chen Shui-Bian, both pan green supporters, did not uncover new evidences of the so call massacre, nobody will. Perhaps it's real that there aren't that many people killed.

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Your lack of respect for human lives is disgusting and shameful. If the lives in China is deemed worthless to you, please don't take the same standard on the people of Taiwan. Taiwan was already few decades more advanced than China then.

Executive Yuan's report in the 90's has the death toll of close to 20,000.

Lee Teng-Hui apologized as the president of the country, however, why should a Taiwanese president apologize for KMT who committed the crime? Even until today, KMT supporters still think its no deal about the death and people like you who is an accomplice is still arguing about the death that shows no respect for the victims is simply daunting.

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1. That 20,000 is not number of death. It is the number of the people who "suffered" in 228. What does that mean I really don't know. According to the same link the death toll is 681 which is close to the number that filed for reparation.

http://www.228.org.tw/about228_history_memo.php?id=59&PHPSESSID=lgrhtnzw

2. The organization that massacred in 228 was not KMT. It's the military of ROC. The person who ordered it was a governor of Taiwan. By all technicality it's an operation by ROC and not an operation by KMT. Lee Teng Hui was the president of ROC. His apology was legit by law. He never had the title of "Taiwanese President". That title doesn't exist. He was also the chairman of KMT, so his apology is very legit.

3. I cannot be accomplice since I have never seen the killing. Your logic is flawed. Obvious you don't care about logic.

4. I have no respect for dead unarmed civilians who could not resist. What have they done beside dying? There're many other heros in Taiwan who actually fought for their homeland. (those who died fighting unwinable battle against Japanese)

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According to the link you have provided, it clearly states that the death is from 18000 to 28000. It also provided the way to make more accurate calculation. Obviously you were too eager to see the lower number.

ROC is KMT, otherwise, there will be no KMT flag in ROC flag. The party is the country, same for the communist. These corrupted Chinese regimes only does things benefiting themselves. Lee Teng-Hu is Taiwanese and the President. He didn't commit the crime that KMT did. However, no one in KMT even dare or have the heart to apologize for it.

An accomplice is those who sides with providing distorted information. That's is you, FYI.

I don't see your respect for those who fought against the KMT. Many people died in 228 thought the regime will bring them dignity. Unfortunately, the Chinese view these Taiwanese as inferior and as Japanese.

If you want to play logic, get lost. You are clearly a pathetic individual and someone who deemed to fail in life because of your support for a regime that has no respect for human rights and a shady mind for yourself. Sure you can continue to write messages here and be the laughing stock of the world by showing your materials educated by the KMT.

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That's just farking retarded. President Ma apologize for 228 so many times that I lost count. Where is this "KMT even dare or have the heart to apologize for it." BS come from???

You have no idea what accomplice means.

You see those who died in 228 did not fight against KMT. They were coward land owners and innocent bystander. They cannot have dignity by just dying.

Obvious you don't care about reality. I don't know what you gain by supporting the political agenda of DPP. What did they offer you?

LOL, you talk about human rights at the time of war???? Plus, I don't even know the concept of human rights even exist in Taiwan or China back then in 1947.

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>> 4. I have no respect for dead unarmed civilians who could not resist.

You really are a nasty piece of work aren't you.

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You and many DPP followers have been brainwashed.

Think about it.

If White Terror is actually that gruesome, say it affects 1 out of 10 pp, most pp would have tons stories about it. In reality, nobody in Taiwan but a selected few ever experienced the White Terror. These selected few use this as political chips to get them elected.

Both 228 and White Terror were targeting the rich and the educated, which were few back then. Both really don't concern normal Taiwanese who were poor farmers back then.

Several of the most famous dissenters did not get killed in the White Terror. Lee Ao, a super active anti-KMT activist, did not get killed. Lei Chen 雷震, an ultra famous critics, only got jailed. Shih Ming-teh 施明德, was jailed and released. If KMT was so horrible, why didn't KMT kill them all? Instead, KMT was following the Military Tribunal code to sentence those pp.

The Taiwanese communist party was actually a group that was involve in the 228 incident. You know KMT didn't tolerate ANY communist movement. There's legit reason why 228 rebels were brutally crushed.

To spend a holiday (228 is a national holiday) over this absolutely insignificant (less than 1000 were killed) historical event is just absurd. Yet, the current KMT president kept on apologize every year for this mistake.

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The names you mentioned are famous ones and the US government were monitoring. What these people did was purely verbal, they didn't commit any violence and yet sentences to years and years of jail.

Obviously you only linked death to white terror, a sign that you do not understand about the meaning of white terror. In real life, people were forbidden to talk bad about KMT, Chiang or the policy to take back the mainland, etc... It seems you only want to talk about death but that's not everything to white terror.

I understand if the Chinese are to put holidays over people killed each day, the entire year would be holidays. This is the standard of the Chinese people who has no respect about human lives and this is your disgusting attitude is truly the reason why this film needs to be made.



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Enough of your BS excuse about "US government were monitoring". There's no proof of your conspiracy theory that US government was secretly controlling Taiwanese politics.

What part of martial law do you not understand? You would get court martial if you talked about stuff that was anti government.

NO nation celebrate a massacre. If you don't believe me go search online for any national holiday that's base on a massacre. Why not? it's stupid to celebrate a bunch of NOT heroic pp getting killed in a tragic mistake.

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If you didn't know about US's role in KMT's occupation of Taiwan, then you missed out on a major portion of KMT's rule. Chiang Kai-Shek was forced to carry out election just few years after he fled to Taiwan because that's what the Americans required. Just look at Iraq and Afghanistan today, the US govt asks for that as soon as they secured power in the country. Even until today, what the US govt said can change the decision in Taiwan.

228 Memorial Day is not a "holiday", I didn't say it was holiday. Don't put your words in my mouth. No one celebrates 228, except Long In-Tai.

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Even today??

Should have listen to Bush and not let SOB Chen Shui Bian be the president?

Your idea is nothing but a conspiracy theory.

228 is a national holiday.

Think about it. Why didn't US celebrate 911? Japan celebrate Hiroshima bombing? Perhpas it's historical tragedy that doesn't required to be reminded every year.

Nobody in this world but Taiwan designed a massacre as a national holiday.

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http://english.ntdtv.com/ntdtv_en/ns_china/2010-07-19/548563595627.html
KMT officially apologized for the White Terror.

Furthermore, it was one man who ordered the military to suppress. This man was NOT Chiang Kai-Shek. NY Times reports 10,000 dead at most, but that was a report from 1947. In retrospect, I think the 228 memorial foundation has said only 681 people were killed. Up to 30,000 were "affected" somehow, but no one is sure what that means.

Anyway, if you think that's bad, just be glad KMT decided to open up to a democracy. DPP is wrong, flat-out. All the pro-independence arguments are garbage.

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Calling other people garbage is probably a garbage itself. No need to have further discussion as I understand Chinese people do not value lives and the well being of people. End of discussion.

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Why are pro-independence arguments garbage? How is it garbage to not want to be associated with mainland China?

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And the figures they are getting in the hundreds is merely based on the number of reparation claims. Probably the least accurate method ever and will always be lower then the actual amount.

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I am a Canadian living in Taiwan and I have a number of Taiwanese friends who lived through that time. I know that even things as simple as language were controlled. Schools were not allowed to teach the Taiwanese language until a few years ago (seven or eight I think). But as to military police or police in general not going after civilians, that is just nonsense. My friend is a tattoo artist. He has never been a gangster, as so many people automatically assume about Asian tattoo artists, but he was harassed, beaten, publicly humiliated, etc. for simply doing tattoos. By who? The police. If they found out where he was tattooing, they would come in and bust up his shop. If they felt particularly mean, they would take him to the police station and beat him with phone books so people could not see any marks. They would also make him stand at attention outside local police stations for hours with other "criminals" so local people could see the "bad man." This is only a glimpse at his story. Today he is thriving and openly bares his tattoos. Now imagine if he had made some kind of political statement instead of just following his passion for making tattoos. He probably wouldn't be around today.

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The police was corrupt in many Asian countries. I am pretty sure it's not military police you mentioned since tattoo was not anti-communist.

It's true that the society was particular sensitive to anything communist. Political dissidents got targeted at that time for suspicion of aiding the communists.

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I just came back from watching this movie and I have to totally disagree with the point the director/producer hate Taiwan. In fact, it is just the opposite as they succeeded in putting together a thriller while weaving in some of the most critical events in modern Taiwanese history, the great majority unknown in the States (the primary audience in the words of the producer ("Ming" in the movie) an American of Taiwanese descent) and, unfortunately, by far too many Taiwanese due to the generations of whitewashing of Taiwanese history by the Chinese Nationalist gov't. This shows a great love of Taiwan, the desire to expose the truth to help its people move forward.

Among the real-life events in Taiwan, lightly-veiled, include the murder of Taiwanese-American Henry Liu in 1984 (they changed Daly City, California to Chicago but retained the key elements of who the shooters were, who ordered the hit, and the main reason it occurred (Liu was writing a biography of Chiang Jing-guo)), the critical importance of the pro-democracy demonstrations leading up to the Kaohsiung Incident in 1979), the stabbing to death of the co-founder of the DPP's twin daughters and mother while the KMT had the house under 24-7 surveillance in 1980, and the murder of the Carnegie-Mellon Taiwanese professor that was thrown to his death off the security police roof after being questioned in 1981.

For anyone that is interested in knowing more about Taiwan's modern history, I'd recommend checking out "Fires of the Dragon: Politics, Murder, and the Kuomintang" by David E. Kaplan, an extremely well-researched, gripping account of what the Taiwanese people have had to endure in their attempt to wrestle their country from the Chinese Nationalists. "Formosa Betrayed" by George H. Kerr, an eyewitness account of 2-28 1947 and its aftermath and "Forbidden Nation: A History of Taiwan" by Jonathan Manthorpe written in 2005 are also both outstanding.

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Liu was a double agent and a FBI informant. He was killed because that. There's nothing political about it. The Head of Investigate Bureau of ROC came out in the media a little while ago said he personally sign off Liu's assasination.

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When someone calls a movie crap, perhaps him/herself is the crap with a distorted mind.

Even after the martial law was lifted. KMT was still arresting people for phony reasons. Obviously the MP who went into the restaurant to arrest someone was trying to contact Agent Kelly because his phone was tapped. It obviously someone didn't pay attention in the movie.

Not because whoever didn't see this can claim such thing didn't happen in 1983. Many dissidents were arrested because they spoke things against the KMT, this still continued until early 90s. It is the fact, whoever denying it either does not understand the history of Taiwan or is an accomplice of the KMT.

All I can say is whoever that made the film must have hated the injustice that occurred after KMT and the flock of Chinese that came to Taiwan in 1949. Unfortunately, there are too many people that still defends KMT and its rule. Its not hard understanding why someone can accuse whoever made the movie must have hated Taiwan. Another smear campaign, another KMT tactic.

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"this still continued until early 90s."

Didn't know you can revise the history which I personally witnessed.

You can talk about murders you have never witness like its a murder of your family. The fact that you have never witness the murder!! Is it possible that you get your information from a 2nd handed source and its biased? Perhaps a group of people benefit politically by over exaggerate a massacre?

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Obviously someone is having problem reading my post.

I said about arresting people that continued until the 90s. This is mostly due to Crminal Code that was later changed.

Many of us didn't witness any historical events, that doesn't mean it didn't happen. If you take history this way, then nothing probably happend before you were born.

Perhaps you can let me know what is not "Exaggerate" a murder? How many people should die to qualify this not over exxageration?

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The whole point I was trying to make is that

The 228 incidence and the White Terror really have no direct effect what so ever in your life. If your families were killed or tortured, your opinions would be more relevant.

You know that politicians love to broadcast their own scrutinies to achieve a certain political goal.

They said: "It was YOU who actually suffer in the 228 incidence and the White Terror"

In reality, very few were involved. It has NOTHING to do with you. Do you know that many poor farmers were benefited by this massacre? Why?

The government confiscated the 228 rich land owners' land and redistribute the lands to poor farmers. In many ways, poor Taiwanese farmers actually benefited from this massacre. Of course not many people realize that. Instead, many DPP followers who have poor parents who benefited from this choose to side with the rich land owners who were against their interests. I just find that ironic.

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really? if my opinion is relevant in your definition, would you listen or you will just come up with another reason to tell me my opinion is not relevant? what are you hiding? what are you scared of?

there are many people, average joes that were affected by white terror. especially those connected with the government. you should look up what white terror is and have this discussion. white terror is not just about death, torture of jail.

what give you the right to tell me white terror has NOTHING to do with me? If it has nothing to do with you, please be quiet.

Not all 228 victims about rich land owners and the redistribution of land didn't occur in 1947. very obviously you are mixing up historical events and you have demonstrated that time over time. Those rich land owners mostly became KMT and own stock in government owned companies.

No one can benefit from massacre, maybe the earth will if there are less Chinese people. Perhaps you can advocate the killing of human being to reduce burden on the natural resources. I think your lack of respect for human lives is suitable for the job.

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interesting. i do not think there is anything wrong with any politcal system or party, until that system or party carries out inhumane acts. unfortunately "Suestonto" seems to be attempting to white-wash a very inhumane period of taiwanese history by belittling the fact that 'some' people were tortured and murdered and had things taken from them against their wishes. surely the torture or murder of even one person should not be acceptable, especially by a political party whose first responsiblility must be the welfare of its citizens. and the redistribution of land is ok if that land is redistributed in a fair and unbiased way resulting in all citizens, whatever their race, political views or gender, become equal. "Suestonto"'s argument is flawed by not accepting basic, decent, honest human qualities.

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Your opinion is not relevant because you are a third party in this event and you were spreading your belief on this event base on 2nd handed information that's potentially biased.

It's like I talk about how much suffering Jews had under Nazi after watching Schindler's List. Does what I say actually has any weight?

Who is this "many people" and "average Joe"? Please name names instead of making contrived imagery.

You say White Terror has to do with you personally. What did you lose in the White Terror?

The whole point of 228 rebellion is the rich land owner class refuse to give up the power to ROC and KMT. The whole point of having a 228 massacre was to kill and eliminate opposition.

You can go talk about the glorious story about a poor sales girl piss off a KMT soldier. It's but a contrived story like an advertisement that was design to sell the idea that 228 is a POPULAR rebel by the general mass.

In reality, it's <b>funded</b> and <b>designed</b> by the rich land owners who STILL want the power back after all those years in exile.

e.g.
Goo Kwan Ming, a rich land owner, a pro TI supporter, fled from Taiwan after 228. After KMT successfully reduced the rich land owner of his power, it was later able to implement the land distribution by confiscating his land. The rich land owner were "forced" to get stocks for his land. His stock in Taiwanese Cements was pretty profitable later on.

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I thought you said you must be affected by white terror for the opinion to be relevant. What happened? Why should I discuss with you about my sufferings? Who are you?

Go look up white terror in Wiki in Mandarin and see the list on Taiwan. Very substantial list. I don't have to copy-n-past them here. If you choose to ignore, then shame on you.

And why can't you discuss about suffering of Jews if you watched Schindler's list? That's the point of the movie and the same applies to Formosa Betrayed. What you are saying is like Americans can't talk about how British treated the new settlers, how ridiculous.

What I see is that you try to cover the tragedy with irrelevant distorted nonsense. 228 was simply asking for fair treatment of the Taiwanese people, before 228, Taiwanese people had dream about China which perished after the massacre.

What you are ignoring here simply shows about how disgusting Chinese people are. They choose to ignore history that brings the bad sides of them. Unfortunately, history is filled with events like such that the Chinese can't hide from the public and people like you is a constant reminder that there is no justice until accomplices of the KMT are brought to trial for the horrific treatments of the Taiwanese people. (and Chinese in China before they fled to Taiwan).

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LOL

Talk about truly brainwashed. You won't even admit that the White Terror did not affect you personally. Obviously, you have an ulterior motive for discussing something that's not related to you.

Please give me ANYTHING that can possibly link you to 228 and White Terror.

ANYTHING would do.

Look. "Taiwanese people had dream about China" was not an original quote from you. It's a standard contrived imagery created by DPP about the feeling Taiwanese had about China. It was implanted in to your brain!!!

Think about it. Where did you get the information??? How do you know that Taiwanese pp had dream about China??


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You cannot use modern ideal to look at historical events. In the past history, every benevolent super power kill to gain power. Killing is therefore NOTHING rare especially it is justified.

KMT justified the killing of communist party members to be beneficial to their country. Killing tons communists in China at that time was considered to be okay. Of course killing several hundred communist associated socialists in Taiwan was pretty insignificant.

I suggest you take off that modern morality when you talk about history. Unless, you don't care about history but political agenda.

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Why do you have to justify KMT's killing? At any time in the last 100 years, killing people was no drinking water, it was not "OK".

If majority of the Chinese supported CCP, why is it "OK" to kill the communists? I didn't read anything in history suggesting killing people is "OK".

You again accused the people killed in Taiwan are connected to CCP. Shame on you bringing false charges against those that died that were simply asking for fair treatment of the people.

There are 5000 years of Chinese history, the last 100 years was pretty modern and stop your dirty accusations of the people that died.

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I justify killing??? No, war justify killing. War happened in 1947, 1949. Martial laws happened until 1980.

Here is the reality to this 228 rebellion. The governor told Chiang there's communist in Taiwan. Chiang thought there's actually "real" communist so he sent a platoon. It's a war situation.

You want NO KILLING in war situation?? Not even US can guarantee that.

I am not base killing in term of morality. Chiang wants to kill the communists. He believe the only way for China to survive is to kill all the communists. He made a logical decision to shoot all the suspected communists.

It's war. He suppose to kill.

LOL. You don't know that the 228 rebellion was related to communist activities?

The Taiwanese communist party came from a faction of left winged group in Taiwan. Socialism was actually very popular among the rich elites. Many current DPP members had relatives who were once in this left winged group. The Taiwanese communist party which included Lee Teng Hui often meet in Shanghai. CCP and Taiwanese communist party were pretty close.

After 228, the Taiwanese communist party organized armed rebellion. Of course, KMT response with crushing military force.

I am sorry that you only study propaganda instead of the real history.

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Unbelievable comments being made by Suestonto here. The main problem here is that you seem unable to accept the view of other people, you surely are a KMT lackey. All these things mentioned in the arguments did happen, what is the point in denying it? The movie itself may not be an actual 100% truthful depiction of every event, but it's a movie. If anything, what really happened was a lot more scary. I've already stated that I don't hold with party politics (although you seem to filter whatever information suits you) but I have a strong belief in the politics of freedom and humanity. You're politics seem oppressive and unhumane. Your comment "It's like I talk about how much suffering Jews had under Nazi after watching Schindler's List. Does what I say actually has any weight?" is insane, disturbing and quite possibly criminal. So by your logic you must have experienced the holocaust 1st hand to realise that it was a terrible, barbaric period of history. Without this experience we just can't understand that it was something bad? So the holocaust was OK? Is that what you're saying? Do we really need to be tortured or murdered to understand that those things are not good?! I've not been kidnapped by AlQeda and had my head sawn off, or experimented on by the Japanese during WW2, I've not been gassed by the Nazis, or imprisoned by the Chinese for speaking out about freedon for Tibet...therefore I shall go out now and find someone to torture because I don't know that it's wrong. I'll post back later after I've removed a few of my victims limbs and let you know how I'm feeling. Oh what fun!

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Scary? That's an emotional term that demonstrated how you are bound to your morality. That's exactly what the film maker want you to feel by showing the worse side of his political opposition.

The whole point is the film is a fiction that is trying to brainwash "people who is righteous" into thinking KMT was all horrible and no good.

What Steven Spielburg, who is a Jew, did was the same thing. He repeatedly portrait Nazi as evil (in Indiana Jones, Schindler's List, Saving Private Ryan). The whole point is to get people emotional.

If you think about logical point of view. I watched the movie and I am suppose to accept his point of view. Then, I became his mouth piece by defending him? That sounds like brainwash. Why would what I say carry any weight in logical point of view?

I didn't say killing is good or bad. Good or bad is emotional. Logically, war does require killing and torturing whether you like it or not. Chiang was fighting a war against communist. Same thing as Obama is fighting a war against Al Qeuda. Same with Al Queda fighting a war with US. Chiang in his life time and KMT in 1970 didn't know that torture is (what your morality considered) wrong. It was common way of interrogation at the time. Nowadays, torture still going on in any war. Just few years ago, US approved torture on suspected terrorists.

Just because you know and think it's wrong doesn't mean that all historical figure know your value.

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I am not trying to be mean but you have some serious issues, youre a person with not that many real friends and have a real serious time trying to meet people. You're so defensive that you won't accept how ridiculous you sound - Spielburg was brainwashing people to think the Nazis were bad? I don't think you have to be brainwashed to know that. Just plain sad.

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I guess you are not sophisticated enough to understand the sub-message Spielberg was trying to convey.

I am not debating about Nazi's morality. I am talking about Spielberg attempt to use dramatic devices to brainwash younger generations.

e.g.
1. Showing Nazi face melting in Indiana Jones I. (obvious it has nothing to do with real history)
2. Showing Nazi is anti-god. (Nazi's massacre has nothing to do with religion)

I am sorry man. I have tons real friends and I meet new pp all the time, so keep your personal smudging to yourself. I heard insults are actually reflections of personal experiences. I wonder if the saying is true.

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"I have a strong belief in the politics of freedom and humanity"

Exactly, you have the "belief", which by definition is not absolute. That also doesn't mean "freedom and humanity" were the political thinking through out the history. It certainly wasn't the political definition of any war time under martial law. It certainly wasn't there until recent history.

Why don't you be more open minded and stop judging ancient people by your subjective morality?

Mr. Self-rightous

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@suesnto ,actually vioence and idiocy effects everyone on the planet. you are mentally retrded, meaning your brain hasnt developed since you were small, probably bc of abuse. hopefully u die soon

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You guys totally crack me up! I've been to Taiwan many, many times -- from back in the early 80's up until the present. Let me tell you, I have *personally* witnessed all of the things that wpdleo claims could not have possibly happened. I also personnally know Will Tiao -- and his whole family. Trust me, he KNOWS and LOVES Taiwan. It is, in fact, his deep love of Taiwan that moved him to make this movie: he wants others to know Taiwan's dark past --that is to some degree still haunting it. Perhaps after people have seen the movie they will understand the deep anti-KMT passions still felt by many Taiwanese. Sure Taiwan is a democracy now; but it wasn't at the time depicted by this movie. By the way, Taiwan DID look very much like that back then, right down to that ridiculous big map of China over the Taipei train station. You know the one I mean: it has the capital of China marked as being Taipei...
I have myself been trailed by plain clothes KMT stooges, hoping to hear my then-financee whisper "unpatriotic" things to me as we strolled through the enormous Chang Kai Chek memorial "park". It was pretty scary back then. Many people did indeed "disappear".

This was an awesome movie. I totally recommend it for anyone who wants to know more about Taiwan's dark recent past (though the story itself is only loosely based on actual events) as well those who just want to watch a great period political thriller.

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Will Tiao KNOWS and LOVES Taiwan. So why is he still live in US?

I understand his father got screw up in 228. Fear of his life in danger, he fled his homeland. Will Tiao wants some sort of revenge I guess. I don't know what exactly is his agenda. Please ask him about it. I am very curious to understand that. Maybe he can befriend with Chiang's grandson. They'll make nice couples.

"that is to some degree still haunting it"

That's so wrong. DPP is haunting every Taiwanese with exaggerated murders. Will Tiao is haunted by his father's bedtime stories when he was young. In reality, Will is not really a victim of the crime. His father oiled his feet so fast that he was not really a victim of the crime. For normal Taiwanese, it's an ancient history that DPP is trying to revise.

Of course the KMT is on your tail. I don't know who are you. You sound like you were politically active. It's a routine for MP back then to screen for political activists. In fact, when DPP gather to form the party in the 80's, every person in the conference was monitored.

I am sorry you lived in a horrible time to be a political activist. However, normal folks in Taiwan back then really were not affected by MP since they were too poor to participate in politic.

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Wow...you love criticizing people for having an opinion about things that they were not "directly affected" by, how old are you exactly? And you claim the DPP exaggerates and spreads propaganda, and the KMT doesn't do that? Oh wait but it is justified, along with doing away with civil rights just because of a "Communist Threat". I can't figure out if your are a paid KMT mouthpiece or just an insensitive ignorant douche.

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to say that the death at 228 incident is insignificant is lacking respect for human right.

there are hundreds if not thousands of 228 families living in the US and outside of Taiwan fearing the retaliation of KMT. Yes, "white terror" was real. People disappear and get arrested just like the present day China.

The martial law in Taiwan was not lifted until 1987. It wasn't until Lee Teng-hui took presidency again the leadership of Taiwan belongs to Taiwanese people. In the 90's and 2000's there was actually a large number of American Taiwanese moving back "home" to Taiwan, thanks to Lee's democratic reform. For many others, their ties in the US, i.e. kids in schools and career, kept them from moving back home.

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