MovieChat Forums > Blue Valentine (2011) Discussion > So what if Dean started 'doing something...

So what if Dean started 'doing something with his life'?


Tapping into his potential and all. He wouldn't have been able to stay home and take care of Frankie anymore. Would Cindy want to give up (part of) her job to be with her daughter more? I don't think so.

I think Cindy wasn't cut out to be a homey mom. She was ambitious and would have considered staying weekdays in another town, if her boss had actually wanted her for her skills, not her looks. At the same time she was jealous of Dean's close bond with Frankie. Looks like she wants her cake and eat it too.

Another thing I've noticed around these boards: Dean showing up at Cindy's work is attributed mostly to Dean (being drunk) alone, but people forget that Cindy left him in the motel without telling him where she went. She didn't even leave a note.

And Dean being semi-alcoholic never, ever got in the way of raising Frankie. Ever.

I guess I just wanted to say that the argument that "Dean has no ambition" is way too easy and much too simplistic.

And I like this movie a lot for not making it a black and white picture. Board topics like "So, who's the bad guy here?" make me smile. The filmmakers did an excellent job in the grey.

Ignore the door.

reply

He wouldn't have been able to stay home and take care of Frankie anymore. Would Cindy want to give up (part of) her job to be with her daughter more? I don't think so.


Frankie is in full-time, year-round childcare/preschool. She is heading out the door in the morning with Cindy even on July 3rd, when the regular school year is not in session. The reason Frankie is hanging out during the day with her grandfather on July 4th is that it is a Federal holiday and her childcare is probably closed.

Dean does not stay home and take care of Frankie. He is employed as a painter. He could try doing something else with his potential during the workday. It wouldn't disturb Frankie's routine, and Cindy would probably be delighted.

I think Cindy wasn't cut out to be a homey mom. She was ambitious and would have considered staying weekdays in another town, if her boss had actually wanted her for her skills, not her looks. At the same time she was jealous of Dean's close bond with Frankie. Looks like she wants her cake and eat it too.


I agree that Cindy wants to be a working professional. However, I disagree that she is jealous of Dean's bond with Frankie. She is impatient when Dean undermines her discipline; for example, when he encourages Frankie to spill cereal on the table. She wants him to help her daughter grow up by showing a good example, not by being a childish bad example.

Another thing I've noticed around these boards: Dean showing up at Cindy's work is attributed mostly to Dean (being drunk) alone, but people forget that Cindy left him in the motel without telling him where she went. She didn't even leave a note.


Cindy left Dean a note saying that she had been called in to work. She has to drive 2 hours from the motel just to get to the office and start her working day. So she leaves really early. Dean doesn't see the note right away, but we watch him read it and tear it up.



reply

Frankie is in full-time, year-round childcare/preschool. She is heading out the door in the morning with Cindy even on July 3rd, when the regular school year is not in session. The reason Frankie is hanging out during the day with her grandfather on July 4th is that it is a Federal holiday and her childcare is probably closed.

Dean does not stay home and take care of Frankie. He is employed as a painter. He could try doing something else with his potential during the workday. It wouldn't disturb Frankie's routine, and Cindy would probably be delighted.

Okay, I didn't get all that on first viewing. You must have seen this film more than once. ;] Thanks for summing that up. I now understand that Cindy is even more busy than I thought, stressed out.

About Dean's potential: he's a guy who found the love of his life, the perfect woman. This is IT for him. A career, money or succes will never ever give him anything close to what he feels for Cindy. He never seemed to have much ambition anyway, and no real skills, except for being a really nice, caring guy and fooling around, playing instruments - but all just to make her laugh. Making Cindy happy is all he wants to do, but he can't, anymore. She's come to resent him for his childish puppy-dog ways, which were once charming and fun to her, and he turns to the bottle.

Some guys smoke pot, others watch or play sports or online games, repair cars - to get away from reality for a bit. Dean drinks, but he's pretty far from a mean drunk. I can't really hold that against him to be honest.

I agree that Cindy wants to be a working professional. However, I disagree that she is jealous of Dean's bond with Frankie. She is impatient when Dean undermines her discipline; for example, when he encourages Frankie to spill cereal on the table. She wants him to help her daughter grow up by showing a good example, not by being a childish bad example.

Cindy is a very professional mom, yes, but she's no fun. It seems like she's left that department entirely to Dean, and Frankie is crazy about her dad, not so much her mother. That's gotta sting.

I counted three occasions on which Cindy compared Dean to a child. Most women will say: 'of course, he is still a kid right?' But men don't like to be compared to children. It's immasculating. For most. Some can laugh about it, but not thrice in 90 minutes. I've heard the men-are-kids thing over and over. Seems to be some hollow female joke. Women are also very much still (part) child. It's just that men actually often LIKE them for that...

My guess is that Cindy has trouble having fun. At all. She resents herself for it, and Dean. For taking up all the fun with Frankie. Frankie is essential in this film; we open en close on her. Someone once said: 'men and women have only one thing in common: kids.'


Cindy left Dean a note saying that she had been called in to work. She has to drive 2 hours from the motel just to get to the office and start her working day. So she leaves really early. Dean doesn't see the note right away, but we watch him read it and tear it up.

Wow. I need to pay more attention and/or get my memory checked. And watch Blue Valentine again. Okay. So minus two points for Dean. He must have been desperate. But why did he even show up at her work? To talk about...?

I still think leaving a note was lame, because it was their (not so) romantic weekend together. She could at least have woken him up. Also: she could have refused. She tried halfheartedly. With that she symbolically picks her career over (fighting for) her marriage. Her mind is made up. When she gets to the hospital, her immediate career dreams are shattered by her boss. Who basically tells her he loves her. Who knows where that could have led, had Dean not messed it up for her right away by barging in and getting her fired. Which leaves Cindy with even less.

Now that I think of it, the third act is really impressive. So many things going on on som many levels. Thank you for clearing things up for me! :]

Ignore the door.

reply

And Dean being semi-alcoholic never, ever got in the way of raising Frankie. Ever.

You really can't make a statement like this based on what we're shown in the film. All you can say is that we weren't shown that his alcohol use got in the way of raising Frankie.
Although I would argue that at the least he was modeling bad behaviour for her.

reply


You really can't make a statement like this based on what we're shown in the film. All you can say is that we weren't shown that his alcohol use got in the way of raising Frankie.
Although I would argue that at the least he was modeling bad behaviour for her.

That's the feeling I got.

Did he ever drink in front of Frankie? I saw him with a cigarette, but it wasn't lit.

He seems to me the exact opposite of the archetypal 'alcoholic dad'. Dean is giving his daughter a lot more time and positive attention than the average non-alcoholic father. He actually shows her that adults can be fun too, that it's not just about rules, to let go, be yourself.

Cindy does the 'hurry-up, you must & you can't'-part of Frankie's education. It's what she does as a nurse and what has enabled her to not deal with things. She's on auto-pilot. Stuck in her grudges. Barely communicating.
Dean actually asks about what's wrong and how he, they, can change and make things better. He practically begs her for something he can grab a hold of and she ends up laughing in face. He still wants to do anything and everything to better the situation. She doesn't want to give him a chance. Anymore.

Who knows what happens in six years. Who knows the 'have you been faithful?'-remark from the guy in the supermarket is supposed to tell us that Cindy slipped in that department over the past 72 months. It seems to me they live in a small town.

Ignore the door.

reply

Who knows what happens in six years. Who knows the 'have you been faithful?'-remark from the guy in the supermarket is supposed to tell us that Cindy slipped in that department over the past 72 months. It seems to me they live in a small town.

Well, I doubt it's that small a town if she hasn't seen Bobby in 6 years.

Based on what we learn later in the film (not to mention Cindy's reaction to it), I took the "Have you been faithful to him?" line to be a reference to her having been unfaithful to Bobby. That is to say, the fact that Bobby thinks she was unfaithful to him.
Remember that Bobby never understood why Cindy dumped him, and when he discovered that she was pregnant he believed (a) the child was Dean's, and (b) that they'd been having an affair behind his back. Hence the abusive phone call and him beating up Dean...

Having said that, though: you're right in saying that we really don't know what could have happened in 6 years...

reply

See, I felt that bobby was propositioning her.

reply

See, I felt that bobby was propositioning her.

Well, in the context of the little we know at the start of the movie, it's a strange, flirty scene, but most of that's coming from Cindy, IMO. Remember that we're talking about a bloke who's wearing a "World's Greatest Dad" cap here (something I've always thought was a rather nice little touch...)

reply

Spielburger, I have to say I never even noticed what the cap said. You're right, this was a great touch. Anyway, this chance meeting was the catalyst that really set off the conclusion of the marriage, and yes, I think his comment about being unfaithful was both a dig at her for supposedly being unfaithful to him and also a proposition of sorts.

reply

Absolutely.

In a matter of 48 hours:

Cindy was propositioned by her ex-boyfriend who is evidently much better looking then Dean.

Cindy was propositioned by her boss who also happens to be an attractive doctor.


Now tell me that poor Dean ever stood a chance.

reply