MovieChat Forums > The Killing Room (2009) Discussion > If You Don't Get It, Don't Blame The Mov...

If You Don't Get It, Don't Blame The Movie...Blame Your School System

posted 14 years ago by usmc8408
38 replies | jump to latest

If you don't get the movie, don't blame the movie, blame your school system for your lack of understanding. this movie is centered around 3 simple ideas which are cleanly laid out for you:
1. Apoptosis
2. MK-Ultra Project
3. The ignorance and lack of caring for civilian casualties in order to find 1 candidate

Apoptosis is when a cell basically kills itself off for the greater good of the group. This can happen when the cell is infected or damaged. Once Nick Cannon realizes he is the weak link of the group (although there is no group left), he attempts to off himself.

MK-Ultra Project was a CIA program to try and make people perfect spies, not able to be interrogated or tortured for info. it started with drug experiments, and eventually moved on to brain washing and hypnosis where the "spy" didn't even know they were a spy.

The "observer" specifically asks the "father" how a program like this can exist when MK-Ultra was shut down because of the high civilian casualty rate. He responds to her (with all this crap ass muffled whispering) "there are no lines anymore," clearing implying the ends justify the means.

so the question of why would someone do this willingly is, sorry to say, a dumb question to ask. in the final shot the "observer" asks how they can turn an apoptosis person into a willing suicide bomber, then it cuts to the final scene of "congrats, phase 1 complete." clearly through phases 2 through 4 these soon to be "martyrs" will either be brain washed, or using the MK-Ultra hypnosis techniques, be turned into unknowing suicide bombers.

and then the questions with the math of why would they sacrifice 61,459 other people in order to find one good candidate is clearly answered too. If you read about the real life MK-Ultra project you would know that apparently our loving government does not find this bad math.

-----

so even though this was not a total killer of a movie, please stop blaming the movie's supposed "plot holes" for your own ignorance. yes the whispering is annoying and hard to hear, but if you come into the movie with a little bit of previous brain power, there are no plot holes to blame.

Try the movie Primer if you're looking for something really mind blowing, because this movie couldn't be laid out any clearer.

"The search for truth and knowledge is often voiced loudly by those who strive for it the least"

[–] tew95 14 years ago

Thanks Mulder, tell Scully I said hello.

[–] theLastResortt 10 years ago

lol. OR that would be Scully's rant when Mulder wants to do something stupid without research.

CiCi: Oh, my bad. I thought you were someone else.
GHostface: That's OK, I am

[–] AfroGeek 10 years ago

those were real projects mr. sheep. you just proved his point.

Amy: I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!

[–] energyspyke 14 years ago

Seriously... just because a movie was written in a strange way, or that a lot of details are vague, doesn't mean the viewer is an idiot. How about you stop insulting people who thought the movie could have been better and keep your opinion to yourself. Good reviewers are here to review movies, not each other. Calm down and go take a walk haha.

[–] usmc8408 14 years ago

How about you go review something then mr self righteous...ignorance and lack of knowledge should never be accepted...hence the fact you think the movei is strage and vague....oh i almost forgot, haha

"The search for truth and knowledge is often voiced loudly by those who strive for it the least"

[–] all-things-otherworldly 12 years ago

No offense, but you're talking about intelligence and there being no excuse for it, and yet your not spelling properly. That seems ironic to me.

"That's right people, I am a constant surprise."

[–] avalon54 10 years ago

Neither are you actually, "and yet you're not spelling properly" is the correct way

[–] Nearvana 14 years ago

i get what you're saying. personally, i didn't find anything really insulting in your post. generally the people who get upset by generalized posts like this, are the ones who find some sort of relation to it. therefore, they take it personally, when you weren't directing it to any one person in particular.
i do have a question for you though, will you please explain your signature to me, "The search for truth and knowledge is often voiced loudly by those who strive for it the least". i am curious what you mean by it, as obvious as it may be for some...

serva me, serva bote

[–] usmc8408 14 years ago

My signature Nearvana is a quote by albert einstein. my take on it is that those who voice theire intelligence the loudest usually lack it. its the quiet hunble ones that posses real knowledge...no need to throw there intellect around....however...sometimes, ignorance needs to be addressed and people need to be shown this...just my opinion

"The search for truth and knowledge is often voiced loudly by those who strive for it the least"

[–] Nearvana 14 years ago

ahh. i thought it was something like that, but the play on words threw me off a bit. i did a google search on it last night & nothing came up, but your imdb sig. i thought it was something you came up with on your own. einstein is very quotable. i have used a few of them myself, & one i found for you in honor of your post here: "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe.". ;)

serva me, serva bote

[–] usmc8408 14 years ago

haha, thanks for calling me stupid :)

is that an einstein quote? i like it

"The search for truth and knowledge is often voiced loudly by those who strive for it the least"

[–] Nearvana 14 years ago

nooo! i wasn't calling you stupid. i just thought it was fitting in your debate with others & their assumptions in thinking you were calling any one in particular stupid. :P

serva me, serva bote

[–] sunny_munch 14 years ago

How about this for a plot hole. Why would the US need suicide bombers. And don't say that they were trying to make civillian weapons with a martyr psyche for multiple purposes. There were points in this movie where they alluded to them being suicide bombers.

[–] usmc8408 14 years ago

my personal opinion, if this movie were to be true is that america would want suicide bombers to take liability of the usa and just blame it on some "whack job." in 2010, the us isn't very popular anymore and we are looked at as bullies. plus the rules of war have changed and we cant just nuke people or wipe out villages and innocent civilians. so i think that puts america in a tough spot. we are expected to kill the bad guys and not the civilians. with one of these suicide bombers, they can take everyone out, no problem, and just be looked at as a crazy fundamentalist. that way america stays squeaky clean like we all know america is... :)

being in the marines, i've learned and seen a different side of america. not a bad one necessarily, but one that isn't all stars and stripes.

is stuff like this needed...who knows, thats a highly debatable topic. but like hitler and 9/11, personally i think it's better to debate the potentials than the aftermath. if we stopped hitler before he did what he did, i'm sure people would criticize us in some way for being bullies. so preemptive strikes and questionable tactics are a tough thing in my opinion.

you stop it before it happens, you wonder if it ever would have happened in the first place. you wait too long, like some say we did with bosnia/serbia, then you're a dick for not acting sooner.

so i think the whole thing is a huge skewed mind f#ck with no real solution other than the hope it all turns out ok

"The search for truth and knowledge is often voiced loudly by those who strive for it the least"

[–] elcabio 14 years ago

"How about this for a plot hole. Why would the US need suicide bombers."

Because they need assassins that can offer the government plausible deniability. (ie. Lee Harvey Oswald). Another example, is the well documented CIA plot to kill Patrice Lumumba (Congo's first democratically [ie. legal] elected Prime Minister]) and attempt to recruit a US ambassador to do so. The ambassador couldn't (and didn't want to) because he couldn't get close enough to Lumumba to poison him like the CIA wanted. A reliable suicide bomber would have been handy back then (1960). BTW, Patrice Lumumba was the inspiration for the African leader, Nykwana Wombosi character, in The Bourne Identity.
Oh yeah, Patrice Lumumba was eventually killed in 6 months.

[–] bluerisk 14 years ago

Spies are highly trainined and qualified professionals who had made a committment. Usually they also have a certain chance of survival.
Spies are expected to obtain information and to return with them.

A Manchurian candidate is an "hostile" agent who got reprogrammed without knowing it. I've also never heard of a case where such a programming had worked.

A suicide bomber makes no sense. It's harder to get him to a vital target than a guided missile or attack drohne. It takes far more time and resources to train him even for such an easy operation and still you can't relay on him/her with a certainty of 100%.

What you mean is an agent within the system of your opponent. But that also makes only sense if you'll operate against a high profile target which are quite rare in a asymetric war.

Usually, you can't install such an agent, you must somehow hire him/her.

The most fomous spies where hired native citizens who betrayed their people, rarely ones who got installed, and if, it takes years to conduct such an operation.

Programmed mules aren't the "style" of the Western services because they don't have to relay on them. Al Qaida lacks the resources (money, manforce, technology, infrastructure etc. pp.) to have an other option than suicide bombers.

Ich bin kein ausgeklügelt Buch, ich bin ein Mensch mit seinem Widerspruch.
Conrad Ferdinand Meyer

[–] vosges1945 14 years ago

*****
A Manchurian candidate is an "hostile" agent who got reprogrammed without knowing it. I've also never heard of a case where such a programming had worked.
*****

If it worked, we wouldn't know about it, would we?
Just sayin'...

:)

Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order

[–] Maku_TheNightMare 14 years ago

Oh and I suppose the viewer of this movie is automatically supposed to know everything right off the back? This movie is very confusing and stupid at that.

*Pink Wig Thick Ass,Give Em Whip Lash*

[–] AfroGeek 10 years ago

You watch too many movies. All a "spy" needs to be is willing to talk to the enemy. Diplomats excel in finding foreign schlubs willing to rat out their country for cash, grass, or ass. See Anna Chapman. Her high training was basically being the *beep* of a lifetime for rich guys.

Amy: I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!

[–] eyerny 14 years ago

Wowwee! Without your intelligent insight, I never would've figured out this movie. You must be the smartiest person ever!

[–] megatosspot 14 years ago

"centered around"? How does that work?

[–] Guywithlastname 14 years ago

I think it's funny that usmc8408 talks about blaming the school systems but he can't spell or punctuate worth damn. I love pseudo intellectuals.

PS The movie rocked I loved it.

[–] usmc8408 14 years ago

i was being sarcastic dumb ass. and this is a message board, i'm not going for grammar points. but thanks for trying to play teacher. attacking my lack of punctuation is a lame rebuttal.

"The search for truth and knowledge is often voiced loudly by those who strive for it the least"

[–] all-things-otherworldly 12 years ago

Grammar is a form of intelligence. Once you begin to slip, it is that much easier to fall. It's like with young teenagers these days using short form for text messages, and then being less able to correctly write an essay. It's just good sense to spell and punctuate correctly, always, otherwise it becomes too easy to simply punctuate and spell incorrectly. You don't use it, you lose it.

And, to the point of blaming school systems. I agree they don't teach nearly as well as they used to. Information is so easily accessed, that no one seems to know how to go looking for it, short of google. But I don't think you can blame me for not knowing what the Ultra program was, because I'm Canadian, and they don't teach us American history, we get World and Canadian history. It's only in high school that American history is an elective. So not everyone can know every global issue.

"That's right people, I am a constant surprise."

[–] tecumseh88 9 years ago

that's specious reasoning. listing off a way that something atrophies does not make it an example of the thing you are comparing it to. you can begin to lose your ability to ice skate, but just because you can lose your ability to ice skate, just as you can lose certain intellectual capacities by not exercising them, does not make them the same thing. grammar and punctuation have little to do with intelligence. some of the best writers in the world don't have good grammar(ernest hemingway apparently had horrible grammar and spelling was equally bad), others don't exercise it (cormac mccarthy, look for an apostrophe or comma in his works. he rarely uses quotation marks).

you can lose intelligence, or maybe just stunt it, by failing to exercise your mind, using inhalants, refusing to think for yourself.

but if you fail to use a comma, your intelligence will remain intact.

sometimes not adhering to the traffic signs of writing allows you to maneuver the through ways of expression in more creative ways.

also, this is a message board, where people choose expediency over quality. they spit their ideas out.

an american who says you should blame the failed US schooling system who exhibits a poor command of grammar and punctuation skills is not ironic, for any who thought maybe it was.

I'm gonna post this without proofreading. so excuse any ramblings or unfinished ideas.

[–] all-things-otherworldly 9 years ago

Man, I sound so conceited. Apologies for that. But what twenty year old doesn't think they know everything?

I agree that good grammar doesn't necessarily make for a creative prose, but I still haven't been able to finish... I think it's The Red Road because of terrible, abhorrent punctuation. I get that it's based around the character and how little educated she is, but I just can't get passed it.

For me, personally speaking, it does atrophy. If I don't write to the best of my ability (grammar, punctuation, structuring, etc) then I tend to lose the capability of it. Maybe that's just me, but I still have the belief that short forming, abbreviating, and poor skills writing (due to certain ways people text) can lead to a lower intelligence level where that is concerned.

I'm not stubborn enough to believe that poor grammar and such leads to a low IQ - it's only one form of intelligence after all - but I still think doing things to the best of a person's ability is better than taking shortcuts.

Also, in response to your other post, not learning about one man apart of the MK Ultra project fifty years later in a history class designed for a more broad world history perspective, is not exactly the same as learning about a project culminated by an intelligence agency designed to protect its people.

I’ve seen honest faces before. They’re usually attached to liars.

[–] tecumseh88 9 years ago

also, portions of mk ultra took place in canada.